Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

Green Peter

That Mckonkey guy has gotten so fond of hearing his own voice, he's a joke and shouldn't be rolled out anymore or inflicted on the public by RTE or media, I heard the programme live and couldnt believe what I was hearing from him. Ashling Murphy's murder was shocking and dispicable but decent people are being lumped into the bracket of the killer just because they are men. The generalization that has gone on for the past week would make u think all men should be locked up. It's people like Mckonkey trying to jump on the bandwagon that really sicken me. They don't care about a solution with ideas like that, they just want to go with the popular opinion as they hear it.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500009#Comment_118500009

I'm saying if there is to be equality in this we must acknowledge feminism's sexism too. It is everywhere so why don't women call one another out?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501139#Comment_118501139

But this pinching women's arses thing always comes up in these arguments like it's something that happens ALL the time. It's a thing I honestly haven't seen in 20 years, then again I'm not a woman. Is it THAT common?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501125#Comment_118501125

I feel that you are advocating that women should immediately catastrophize any interaction with any man into a potential rape scenario.

It's exceptionally damaging and unhelpful and exactly what is happening in the media this week. Inflating the degree of danger people face in order to keep the clicks and viewers coming.

The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of interactions you have with men will not escalate to this degree. It's healthy to be aware that situations can sometimes escalate and know what the warning signs are so if you are in a position to protect yourself, you can do so early.

But yeah it could happen. If I piss get into an argument with a man in a pub, he might batter me to death on the way home. Does that stop me ever talking to a male stranger? If I flirt with a girl in a pub she might falsely accuse me of rape. Better not flirt with this girl.

Rapists are going to rape, murderers are going to murder.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498244#Comment_118498244

Fergus thinks he is helping but he absolutely is not helping with an article like that. All he is doing along with RTE and some other media is polarising people. Stuff like that will turn men away from listening and trying to understand to becoming defensive instead. I despair at our media sometimes.

JoChervil

But you really don't know, who you are dealing with on a receiving end.

At the beginning of the pandemic my sister stood up to guy breathing into her neck in a local shop. She only told him to keep a distance and he took a knife out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501199#Comment_118501199

And thats horrific. What happened after that?

CreadanLady

That is awful for your sister to have expereinced. Were the gardai called?

My advice to women and girls would be not be alone with a male that you do not know and trust. By all means interact, but insofar as is possible, restrict such interactions to places where you are visible to other people, women espacially. This actually works to the advantage of males too because it lessens the risk of false allegations or even suggestions of allegations.

JoChervil

He only showed it to her and left. She was too frozen to do anything after that.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501199#Comment_118501199

Do you think that's the standard reaction a woman would expect in that situation? Is that normally how all men react? Every single one of them regardless of nationality, ethnicity or creed?

In other words, do I as a woman need to add a simple interaction with a man to the list of things I should fear now?

JoChervil

I am talking about standing up, not about regular interaction. The first one might be risky.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501229#Comment_118501229

A lucky escape so. If she had been a bloke, there would have been an increased chance that she would have been stabbed.

Scumbag getting a thrill by scaring someone, but not indicative of anything we are discussing here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501125#Comment_118501125

What if she got a taxi home after the pub? Or walked with her friends to the place? Or... applied some sensible choices to her night out...

Why would anyone go into a reclusive place at night (you did mention the pub, which suggests the time that this is happening)

CreadanLady

Of course not, that would be ridiculous. The point we are trying to make is that you a girl or woman has no way of knowing how a seemingly normal interaction with an unknown male (or even known) might evolve. Therefore, it is advisable to be wary of the potential risks that could arise if things take a turn for the worse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501251#Comment_118501251

but not to worry if you do the same things you condemn men for, because it doesn't affect them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501251#Comment_118501251

haha.. I'm sorry but that's no different for any man. Or any person dealing with a woman. It's always advisable to be wary of potential risks, but it's unreasonable to exaggerate the risks involved. The statistics don't support your fears. Ireland is not as dangerous as you seem to believe.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501268#Comment_118501268

Well not really, no.

When was the last time a man walking was randomly murdered by a woman?

When was the last time a of a court case for a man being raped by a woman?

When was the last time a of a court case for a man being seriously sexually assaulted by a woman?

What is the male on female : female on male ratio for any of those crimes? They are massively skewed. In the case of rape, it is zero because it is legally impossible for such to occur.

Your arguments are entirely tone-deaf in that you are pushing back against everything but you haven't got a leg to stand on because behind it all, there is the reality that male violence and everyday harrassment against women is a problem of epidemic proportions in Ireland. The reverse simply isn't the case, it is no-where near the same level. It is my opinion that apologists and whataboutery mongers like yourself are part of the culture of harassment. You'd be better off taking some steps to encourage awareness about violence against women that engaging in mindless pro-male whataboutery on message boards.

The fact of the matter is that women have got a legitimate reason to be fearful of males, because males have a proven track record of violence and abusive behaviour towards women, in all the forms it might take.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500510#Comment_118500510

Good point, imagine as a man you were walking into the toilets in a dingy bar and on the way in a much bigger man pinched or slapped your arse. I’d say it would put a new slant on things for many of us. A woman doing it while unacceptable and demeaning in its own way is not an actual physical threat for most men. It has happened to me down the years in a pub and a nightclub in Scotland and even at secondary school and I thought FFS but never feared anything bad happening.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501302#Comment_118501302

there is the reality that male violence and everyday harrassment against women is a problem of epidemic proportions in Ireland.

I'm not afraid and I don't agree with the quoted part.

The media are whipping up hysteria and using the violent death of Ashling to present all men as an ever-present threat to all women.

They are doing this in her name when she can no longer speak for herself. People who have never met her all over the country and in the UK know details about her life and speak about her as if they knew her.

Ashling had a father, a brother and was with her boyfriend for the last 5 years of her life. It's unlikely she viewed all men as bogeymen, but this is now the legacy that has been foisted upon her.

She should be allowed rest in peace and efforts directed to the minority of people ( men and women) who willfully harm and kill others.

findmenow

Man pinches woman's bottom = sexual assault

Man pinches man's bottom = sexual assault

Woman pinches man's bottom = sexual assault

Woman pinches woman's bottom = sexual assault

It really is that simple, it's sexual assault and not acceptable regardless of who's doing it

john123470

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501233#Comment_118501233

" . In other words, do I as a woman need to add a simple interaction with a man to the list of things I should fear now?.."

~Exactly this.

Now that we have gay marriage, reasonable freedom for all sexual orientations, perhaps we can have separate "tuition classes" on how to defuse a situation should eg. a heterosexual man eg. (mistakenly) express interest in eg. a Lesbian.

If eg. said lesbian became outraged - how can the man best apologize for his failing to recognize "her" "sexuality" ?

If the murderer of this poor woman turns out to be a foreigner, should we not perhaps turn our attention to educating "foreigners" on the sexual nuances in this new multi-sexual environment we now find ourselves in ?

There are so many sexual orientations here now - each clamouring for their particular rights - i get confused myself.

Look the wrong direction and you are bound to upset someone.

What really galls me though is Ms McEntee, Minister for Justice, a woman, throwing it all back on the "sheeple" .. "change your attitudes to women .. make them feel safer .. bla bla bla "

No, Minister. Start a programne of serious sentencing for Serious offenders / Repeat offenders.

Stop letting repeat offenders walk the streets to re-offend. That is your job. That is what you get paid a sackload of cash to do.

If your department had not seriously cut rural policing, might this tragedy have possibly been prevented !?

If you care a jot about the senseless death of this young woman, then Do Your Job !!

Unfortunately, this will not happen. We are a pass the buck country

'It's all your fault !"

- No, it isn't

.. is so !.."

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501221#Comment_118501221

Has it come to this? That men and women should separate because they have become so wary of each other trust has broken down? Let's face it there is sexism on both sides and studies show that men suffer as much domestic violence as women. The demon has entered between men and women. How did this happen? I detest cat calling and pinching bottoms is intimidating for women and men. Even the simplest gestures can be pregnant with menace and it is not on for either sex. Almost all of the discussion on this issue is political and that well and good. But what is the real source of this? Where does it come from? These are questions that few people are asking or trying to answer.

“This great evil, where's it come from? How'd it steal into the world? What seed, what root did it grow from? Who's doing this? Who's killing us, robbing us of life and light, mocking us with the sight of what we might've known? Does our ruin benefit the earth, does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too? Have you passed through this night?”

― James Jones, The thin red line

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500613#Comment_118500613

I wouldn’t be convinced it’s rarer, many men will have experienced it. On a one on one it’s not a major issue for a man. But if an 18 or 19 year old guy collecting glasses in a venue and a load of older women at a hen do start nipping and grabbing at the guy that can be intimidating and demeaning and very uncomfortable. Not acceptable at all.

JoChervil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501250#Comment_118501250

It might also happen in a day light on any following day.

Probability of such even is minuscule yet it is enough, if it happens only once to you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501302#Comment_118501302

Hang on, we aren't talking about rape, or murder.

We are talking about a man and a woman, both squeezing the arse of the opposite sex, in the exact same scenario.

You understand why a guard would laugh at a man for reporting it and would want the full rigours of the law imposed on a man who does it.

Your basis for this glaring inequality?

"He might rape or murder me".

No. That's not how it works.

The fact of the matter is, the fear you are pushing is no way backed up by statistics or facts and it is mostly men who are in danger from other men.

You also downplay violence carried out by women to men as if it is a laughing matter. I implore you to look at the statistics around domestic abuse and the disparity in supports one side has over the other.

I've worked closely with male victims of domestic abuse and am all to aware of what some women who have suffered at the hands of men.

To glibly say that there is an epidemic of male on female violence and harassment and that men aren't doing enough but all the while encouraging the notion that violence against men isn't as serious an issue is insulting to male victims of violence and a contributing factor to the growing suicide rate in men.

Males have a proven track record of violence? Would you be comfortable levying that sort of generalisation on any other group of people?

<snip>

Leg End Reject

@CreadanLady, your language is quite telling.

"Women" and "males" rather than women and men.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501221#Comment_118501221

Long long ago I said that if I had a son I would have brainwashed him by now into automatically leaving a room if there was only one other woman, and that woman was a stranger. Just excuse yourself politely and leave quickly.

Fishdoodle

I’ve been stalked home once - it was scary, I was by myself and had a knife pulled on me. I was very very lucky to escape! If I were a female this (today) would be gender based. Whilst I do feel women are more vulnerable in many situations, unprovoked assaults should be treated as such regardless of gender.

They could update the Covid tracker app to include these licences.

Fully vaccinated / He's a good 'un.

Fully Vaccinated / This ones a bit dodgy, in fairness. Mind yourself.

And so on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501348#Comment_118501348

Would you think if that happened to you, it would be acceptable to blame all gay people for the arse pinch that man gave you and to view all gay men as potential rapists?