Asian immigrant condemns Irish gay society in British press as systemically racist

AllForIt

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/11/10/pradeep-mahadeshwar-gay-project-racism/

"Irish or white men won’t accept people of colour as part of the community"

“There is no scope for friendships, dates or sex for Asian men"

 "....Irish gay men are afraid and ashamed of being associated with people of colour"

 "I am aware that racism remains rooted in sexual desire"

 "you have to go through loneliness and face sexual racism at every stage within the community.”

 "most of my racist experiences are coming from the queer community" (He means gay community here)

“If you don’t fit into the white men’s sexual fantasies and fetishes, you are invisible,”

"The rigid racial hierarchies and beliefs keep people of colour outside of friendships and dating circles"

"Queer people of colour are treated like “third class citizens"

 “Cis white gay men dominate the community"

"most of the people leading Ireland’s LGBT+ organisations are white – something that needs to change"

There is not other way to describe those comments other than the way I did in the headline - a complete and utter condemnation of Irish gay society.

Either his comments are completely true or completely false. No in-between. No single example of what he says here makes his comments true as a whole as he paints a very grim picture of Irish gay society. It's not like he held back or had a single good word to say in his years of living in Dublin.

To those that are familiar with Dublin's gay scene does Pradeep's comments seems pretty much accurate to you or not. 

For those not familiar, but familiar with Irish gay men generally, the same question.

From my own experience his comments do not match my view of Irish say society, or anywhere I've lived for that matter.

FYI, this chap came to prominence due to an anti-racism campaign launched by a Cork based NGO last October. If you think he's wrong what do you think is going on here particularly given that he is being given a platform to speak out by white gay people. And are you satisfied that Irish NGO's, which you'll know are state funded, are giving a platform to people to make such claims that have reached an international audience.

Heraclius

Didn't you already start a thread in the LGBT forum on this and it got shut down?

NSAman

Well… having read the piece, instead of him complaining about white gay people being nasty and not trained in diversity for social groups, why doesn’t he start his own social groups?

honestly, he sounds like he wants to control and be in the limelight.

i have no idea if his claims are true or false. If true it shows a bad reflection on the lgbtq community, if false he sounds like a complainer.

it’s better to win people over if you are new in town, rather than pointing out their flaws and alienating yourself?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058224006/asian-immigrant-condemns-irish-gay-society-in-british-press-as-systemically-racist

Racism is defined as: "the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another"

or

"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized"

With these two definitions in mind, let's review some of his statements:

• "Irish or white men won’t accept people of colour as part of the community"
• "Irish gay men are afraid and ashamed of being associated with people of colour"

Not only are his claims racist, because he is making generalisations about a "white" population, but you could almost argue that his comments are racist/homophobic about Irish gay people, because he is making generalisations about them, too.

Ironically, it seems he - and only he - is the one guilty of racism and a form of twisted homophobia.

Vic_08

Climbing that victim ladder requires a heroic amount of brass neck, it always has done. It used to be a place for enthusiastic amateurs, now though there really is only a place for fully professional victims of fauxpression.

Unfortunately all you early adopters of inclusivity and special status based on how much oppression your group has faced are inevitably going to get pushed to the bottom by the newer more uber-woked victim groups, indeed not only are you dropping down the virtue-status league table, your automatic inclusion in the woke category is now very much a thing of the past.

Plain ol' white western gay men are barely any more worthy than the evil privileged breeders any more, get used to your lowly status, for now you can still wear your rainbows and make up the numbers at the public events but you must at every opportunity pay hommage to those with a higher woke count than you.

Lillyfae

He came to Ireland to be with his white, Irish boyfriend- but they’re all racists?

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118364380#Comment_118364380

Seems like a pretty bizarre mindset. People have their own personal attractions and preferences. You’re not going to change that by moaning about it in the media.

If nobody fancies you, it might be time for some introspection to figure out if there is something off putting about yourself. I doubt Pradeep will ever train that lens on himself though.

I actually work with a gay guy, who is white and from Eastern Europe originally. His long term partner is a brown-skinned guy from Mauritius. This somewhat belies the assertions in this article that such pairings never happen in Ireland.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365100#Comment_118365100

People have their own personal attractions and preferences.

Padreep does have something to say about that. He says that he wants to see more "sex positive" nightclubs. What that is about is an attitude of levelling the playing field, where everyone is regarded of equal desirability, where noone is 'better' than anyone else. Your personal preferences are 'rooted' in something bad that must be socially engineered out of society. Such stereotypical loony nonsense.

I actually work with a gay guy, who is white and from Eastern Europe originally. His long term partner is a brown-skinned guy from Mauritius. This somewhat belies the assertions in this article that such pairings never happen in Ireland.

Of course he's talking complete BS, but I want to emphasis that this guys views are being promoted by an Irish NGO (so there views also), otherwise this thread wouldn't exist in the first place and there wouldn't be an article in the Pink News at all.

I honestly am flabbergasted by what's going with these NGOs and how they are able to get funding from he state to promote their poisonous campaigns. They have be gotten rid of one way or the other. 

If he wants to experience real racism and homophobia he should try living in South Asia. oh wait.

Just found this article which is relevent, https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/02/homosexuality-india

Gatling

Oddly enough there was a chap from India on Joe Duffy yesterday or the day before singing out praises for being open and inclusive ,when Joe asked what brought him here the reply came his Irish boyfriend ,ohh

There is loads of mixed race couples here both gay and straight ,but there is always someone who pops up playing the race card

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366483#Comment_118366483

’Sex positive’ nightclubs, a place where everybody gets laid, regardless if you look like Chris Hemsworth or Quasimodo. Some of this thinking has truly jumped the shark. I totally agree that many of these NGOs are an utter waste of our collective taxes and ought to be abolished immediately.

Rejection is a universal human experience. It doesn’t matter if you’re white, brown, black, gay, straight, whatever. We’ve all encountered it. Somebody you fancy doesn’t reciprocate and just isn’t you. What do you do? You put on your big boy/girl pants and move on. Pradeep needs to grow the f**k up and this NGO ‘platforming’ him should be defunded for a criminal waste of taxpayers money.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366956#Comment_118366956

Sex positive’ nightclubs, a place where everybody gets laid, regardless if you look like Chris Hemsworth or Quasimodo. 

Coppers it is so!

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366813#Comment_118366813

I agree with the sentiment that Irish people are fairly open and inclusive. However I have to disagree with the statements there is a lot of interracial couples in this country. There aren’t, not compared to other Western European countries.

I was Christmas shopping all day today in one of our regional cities. I passed thousands of people on the streets and did not see one mixed race couple. I don’t know precisely why that is, but it’s not for the reasons called out by the esteemed Pradeep.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366974#Comment_118366974

I know several my two sisters in-law come from Brazil and both black in mixed race couples ,I know several gay / lesbian couples in mixed race relationships, I know the last few years mainstream media has been pushing the mixed race couples in advertising from social media campaigns to various supermarkets to some how make it look more acceptable or prevalent is probably the better word ,

Even more odd I was previously engaged to a Georgeus chick from Sierra Leone ,who ended the relationship because her family wouldn't accept a white husband despite living together several years .

While I will agree it's not a common sight ,it still happens in the LGBT community and straight,but there's definitely difficulties involved

MarkEadie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366974#Comment_118366974

It's extremely common at this stage. Certainly in places like Dublin

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367300#Comment_118367300

I live in Dublin and have school age children. It isn’t ‘extremely common’.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366483#Comment_118366483

If he wants to go somewhere just to get laid he can go to the Boilerhouse.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367459#Comment_118367459

Oh, in that case he's being fettishized, which of course is another thing rooted in racism.

To objectify or fetishise someone is to view and/or treat a person as an object, devoid of any thought or feeling. Fetishisation can be thought of as the act of making someone an object of sexual desire based on some aspect of their identity. For LGBQTI+ People of Colour, it reduces them to objects of sexual pleasure and gratification.

https://gayproject.ie/special-projects/proud-af/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366974#Comment_118366974

"regional cities" being the operative term. You go walk around Carcasonne, Lublin, Memmingam, Granada, etc you will see nothing but locals too. Ditto go to Praetoria, will see interracial couples but go to Brakpan, not so much. Ditto when comparing a big metropolitan city anywhere to its regional cousin

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367904#Comment_118367904

Sorry, but what are you on about?

TooTired123

Sorry to butt in here but am I to understand from this that if I’m in a social setting and I’m attracted to someone but it turns out they don’t fancy me, that they are in some way bigoted ??

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367988#Comment_118367988

REgional cities are less cosmopolitan

fritzelly

What I get from that piece is he can't get laid so it's all the white peoples fault and if you try to criticize him then you are being racist - I can see why he can't get laid

Going from the video he certainly wouldn't be many peoples cup of tea and he is certainly onboard with the whole always being offended bandwagon using cis

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118368079#Comment_118368079

Precisely. And the fact you give off vibes of incredulity is another indicator of your deep seated bigotry that you were blissfully unaware of till now.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118368223#Comment_118368223

Well I wish I could get a time machine to bring me back to my youth so I could let some people know how truly awful they really are. And myself of course. To all the guys I wouldn’t dance with in Hayes disco in Thurles from 81 through 85, I’m truly sorry. I know now that I should have danced shifted and shagged each of you to save your hurt feelings.

how do I make reparation?

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118368772#Comment_118368772

This guy looks about 40, but is acting out like that scorned teenager at your disco.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366974#Comment_118366974

I know loads. I would guess it depends where you live though. Birds of a feather and all that

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118368885#Comment_118368885

I live in a very multicultural part of West Dublin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118366483#Comment_118366483

Padreep does have something to say about that. He says that he wants to see more "sex positive" nightclubs. What that is about is an attitude of levelling the playing field, where everyone is regarded of equal desirability, where noone is 'better' than anyone else. Your personal preferences are 'rooted' in something bad that must be socially engineered out of society. Such stereotypical loony nonsense.

Seems like he's advocating "conversion therapy" but in reverse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118367284#Comment_118367284

While I will agree it's not a common sight ,it still happens in the LGBT community and straight,but there's definitely difficulties involved

I think the problem is that Asians (born in Asia) tend to develop as homosexuals in a very very feminine manner, (which happens here too) but, it's often quite exaggerated in Asia... and many Irish men wouldn't find it quite so attractive. I certainly didn't (beyond the first 2-3 experiences), and the amount of male partners I had while living in Asia dropped considerably when I moved there. Sure, they're often gorgeous but there's a certain whine(y) attitude that comes with particular gay communities/cultures. Get's tiresome quite quickly to deal with it, and to have to constantly need to reassure your partner. I don't think people really consider how important culture is when it involves how homosexuals develop and establish their behaviors around their sexuality.. there's a lot of differences. Those differences can often be a definite plus, which is why I adore Asian women so much (beyond the physical attraction), but the negatives are important too.

As for mixed couples, I don't think it's as common in Ireland, as in other countries but they're definitely around. I've seen a lot of mixed couples on the streets in Galway... but it's worth remembering the population of non-white races in Ireland is still far below that of White people (even if the Whites are foreign born themselves).

joseywhales

You racists won't ride me? Even if there was a sexual preference based on race, I think that is a personal sexual preference. We can't be forcing people to have more diversified sexual partners, it's their choice. It's a serious level of entitlement to believe that society owes you sex.

ChickenDish

Has nobody told this guy that its not racist if people don't wanna have sex with you because your fugly.

According to his logic I've met thousands of woman who despise men because they won't have sex with me.

SamStonesArm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371690#Comment_118371690

Yeah Ive met a fair few men haters over the years myself. Me mammy says Im well handsome and all :(

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371690#Comment_118371690

Probably many but they're all racist so it doesn't count

This guy has just run into any nation's inherent tendency to be cliquey, and the typical Irish cynicism of anyone who dates an Asian person, and it's exacerbated by trying to make a community largely based around sexuality and dating his main community.

Dr Fred

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371759#Comment_118371759

Yes but do you think the gays are being unfairly singled out?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371759#Comment_118371759

Why is this guy 'platformed' so much? The Proud AF campaign he's involved in is government funded. The government are promoting this stuff. Yet everyone is focusing on Pradeep's opinion, an opinion he probably didn't even form on his own.

The quote about “I realised long back that whiteness is the currency that holds a considerable advantage." he probably realized that after reading the work of Emily Drew, (Whiteness as Currency: Rethinking the Exchange Rate) in the book 'Living with Class: Philosophical Reflections on Identity and Material Culture' or at least someone who had read that book relayed this information to him. Nearly every other quote in that article was repeating some sort of intersectional mantra.

The Proud AF campaign even admit to what they are doing:

Genuinely empowering people of queer colour and queer Travellers means:

platforming their presence

creating and promoting safe spaces

listening to their experiences

sharing knowledge and creating cultural competence 

not regarding these individuals as secondary to the rest of the community

actively involving them in community groups

respecting cultural and lived differences.

To empower these people they need to "share the knowledge, create cultural competance and platform". To me this sounds like "use as a puppet doll". https://gayproject.ie/special-projects/proud-af/

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363475#Comment_118363475

Maybe this is his pitch for funding to do just that...

Danzy

If you are not called racist, a fascist or a Nazi every so often these days you are probably a truly awful shallow narcissistic sociopath

yerwanthere123

The chap in question really isn't helping himself with that awful moustache of his. Bloody hell 😳

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371788#Comment_118371788

The quote about “I realised long back that whiteness is the currency that holds a considerable advantage." he probably realized that after reading the work of Emily Drew, (Whiteness as Currency: Rethinking the Exchange Rate) in the book 'Living with Class: Philosophical Reflections on Identity and Material Culture' or at least someone who had read that book relayed this information to him. Nearly every other quote in that article was repeating some sort of intersectional mantra.

Well, to be fair, anyone who has spent any amount of time in Asia will know this to be true, and while it's declined considerably over the last decade, in the past, White people are/were elevated beyond everyone else, in many situations. However, that elevation came from Asian people themselves. So, in many cases, there was an unfair advantage for white people (and foreigners to a less extent), but it wasn't coming/created by White people. Most Asians would be aware of this... and you'd easily find many Asian guys bitter over the elevated place that White guys have in meeting women (the same exists for White women, but Asian women don't seem to be all that bothered by it)

I see this article as being a screaming tantrum about how unfair the world is, and deciding to blame one or two sections for it.. because it's convenient to do so. Its the dismissing of personal responsibility for his own choices, behavior, etc, and instead passing the buck on to others. Haven't read the book you referred to, but I suspect it's more of the same. In order to play the victim, there has to be the bully out there, whether it's real or imagined.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372583#Comment_118372583

Funnily enough all of the mixed race couples I know are Irish men with a foreign wife bar 1. Never foreign men.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372669#Comment_118372669

Whereas the few mixed race couples I know are all Black guys (African or foreign Westerners) with Irish women. The only mixed couples I know with Irish guys are with Asian women, or with Eastern Europeans. Don't know any gay couples anymore in Ireland, all those I know are single/dating.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371770#Comment_118371770

Yes. I think it has fek all to do with the gay community.

Hamachi

This guy doesn’t particularly bother me. There may even be a kernel of truth in some of his complaints. As others have suggested, he is perhaps encountering the innately cliquey nature of some Irish people.

What irritates me most is the waste of resources here. I work damn hard all year and pay a fortune in taxes. I’m sure that many others posters on this thread are the same. It’s infuriating seeing my (and your) taxes being spent funding this NGO, providing a mouthpiece for such a frivolous issue.

Surely, this money would be better spent on heath care, education, or infrastructure. How dare our so called leaders misuse the fruits of our labor to propagate this horseshit. I really wish that there was some accountability enforced on these NGOs to ensure that they are providing legitimate value-add to Irish society.

berocca2016

I can remember this thread coming up in the LGBT forum, and my point still stands (as a gay man), gay men are often shallow, but I wouldn't say its fair that they would in general discriminate against race, like a hot Indian would get as much D as a hot Irish lad.

Not to take away from anyone's experience of racism. As a cisgendered white man, I may not understand but I know that as a balloon in college I never pulled in the George but once I gained a triangular torso the world (and its men) were my oyster.....

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118373543#Comment_118373543

Didn't realise this guy is on a crusade - gay men are shallow and will cut you down in a heartbeat, he is just too precious to have that done to him

If he is so enraged by it maybe he should start with the rampant abuse and violence in his home country rather than a very liberal and accepting country like Ireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118372583#Comment_118372583

The elevation in my opinion wasn’t for white people but western people. They were known to cheat far less on their partners and generally be more wealthy, especially when seen in Asia. As you said this has changed recently as the Asian countries have become richer and culture has changed. Success rates (relationships, marriages) were far higher with Western men and Asian women then the other way.

B.A._Baracus

Don't know why this thread is a thing. Just one worlds view according to one man. Sure, none of us here know the chap. Could be an oddball for all we know.

Honestly, the vast majority of Asian men are totally and utterly incompatible with Western men and women. That's a pretty big blanket statement but if they aren't Westernised, it's true. Asian women on the other hand are very compatible with Western men and our way of doing relationships is extremely desirable.

So maybe this guy has a point. Maybe Irish men do recognise this and don't want to be the male version of an Asian wife.

joseywhales

I mean you've got to try them all right? Variety is the spice of life. I honestly don't have a preference, apart from physical fitness and a good sense of humour. I think people only imagine that they have a type on some superficial level.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118373971#Comment_118373971

Maybe that's true when you're younger, but as you get older you gain strong preferences for certain.. looks. In addition to the personality, and other considerations, that you know just "work" based on your experiences.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118373901#Comment_118373901

Culture plays a huge part with this and traditional gender roles. However, in Asia, I know many western women who have married Chinese guys, and thinking back, they're more likely to stay together in the long term. Most of the Western guys I know who married their Asian girlfriends have gotten divorced within two decades (for all manner of reasons).