F1 2022 thread - see post 1 for rules

rock22

What is there in it for Alpine for them to offer a seat to Ricciardo?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

At the moment it looks as if all 3 parties (McLaren, Alpine & Piastri) are gonna come out of this worse than when they went in.

Incredible lack of judgement, in particular from Piastri, to burn bridges with Alpine. If he doesn't end up fulfilling his potential (and soon) his career is only going backwards.

Poor judgement all round from Alpine to lose both Alonso and Piastri. They must be sick having pumped so much money into Piastri's development only to be publicly humiliated by him.

And the tweet from Alpine and consequently Piastri has really strengthened Danny Ric's position and could end up costing McLaren bucket loads of cash. Although McLaren have succeeded in taking their main rival's up and coming star (in addition to playing a part in embarrassing them) so they are atm the happiest of the 3 I would imagine.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429638#Comment_119429638

He's a big name driver and he'll be cheap this time. They paid him $20m a year last time. He'll be a fraction of that this time. And he might find his previous form which would make him a bargain. If he goes there and continues his current form, he'd be a loss. But at least he'll be cheap.

He must know his stock has fallen and he's trying to relaunch his career. This move wouldn't be about money in the short term it would be about staying in the sport after next year. If he stays at mclaren for 2023, I can't see anyone wanting to pay him in 2024

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429638#Comment_119429638

Well it looks like they have a seat that needs filling and no other obvious candidates with Alonso definitely gone and Piastri having burnt his bridges.. Ric has history with the team and did a lot better there than he's currently doing at McLaren.

Frank Bullitt

Piastri turning down a seat before he had even turned a wheel in anger…to MAYBE go to another team to sit and wait…

If this is what happens, his management need their heads checked.

thefa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119428625#Comment_119428625

Neither Piastri or Alonso come across as the most composed characters but the way they have handled certain things makes me think there were significant interpersonal issues between them and the team. If you’re on good terms with management, you wouldn’t be as disrespectful even when leaving.

Maybe they do think the car hasn’t much more to give on top of that too. Who knows.

mickdw

Ricciardo to alpine even on a 1 year deal will be his career saving move. He knows his stock is rock bottom but if he was to run out 2023 at McLaren, he is finished.

I'd imagine he will be secretly hoping this all works out with a swap to alpine which with buy out of his contract or whatever should work out as at least 1 years salary at similar levels to his McLaren wages so he can save face there too and call it a sideways move which it really is.

I like Otmar Szafnauer and always seemed to run a tight ship at racing point but he is caught with his pants down here.

Dont be at yourself

Do Alpine retain any links to Guanyu Zhou? He's acquitted himself quite well this year, and brings cash and sponsorship.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119430451#Comment_119430451

Alonso is ruthless. He lies straight to the teams face on Sunday and told them he was going to sign with them. Then Monday morning they found out in the AM pess release that he had already signed with AM.

I heard a great conspiracy theory which i think was from The-Race. They implied that Alonso strung Alpine along until after Sunday at the request of his bezzy-mate Mark Webber (Piastri's agent). Reason being that Piastri's contract says he became free to find his own seat if Alpine hadn't sorted one for him by midnight on Sunday 31 July.

So suggestion is alonso waited until after that deadline to announce his AM drive, which helped Webber and Piastri in their negotiations. Piastri wins because he is free. If he's obliged to race for Alpine then he can't negotiate much for wages or conditions such as an equal share of upgrades. But he can negotiate more of that stuff if he's free. Plus he could go to mclaren which would be a massive bonus.

Not saying I believe it, but it's certainly interesting.

duploelabs

With Flavio on board, you know there's going to be shenanigans

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431303#Comment_119431303

Webber was under Flavio's management too, I think.

rock22

What I find interesting is that Briatore was banned from representing drivers after race fixing scandal.

How come he is back in the F1 family again?

And how come teams are willing to deal with him?

guyfo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431365#Comment_119431365

Because he appealed that straight away and it was overturned.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431426#Comment_119431426

Just check and it was not exactly overturned. There was an out of court settlement in 2010 and the FIA dropped their appeal in French courts. Briatore was found guilty but the ban was only to 2013.

From Pablo Elizalde on Autosport

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-briatore-reach-settlement-4437122/4437122/

Quote

"The agreement means neither Briatore or Symonds will be allowed to work in Formula 1 until the start of 2013 and in any other competitions registered on the FIA calendars until the end of the 2011 season.

In a statement released on Monday, the FIA said both Briatore and Symonds had expressed regret and apologised for their actions."

I am still a little surprised that teams are happy to deal with him though. Initially Renault seems to have back him and Symonds but a few days later sacked them. Assuming their own internal investigation showed that they had fixed the race.

El_Duderino 09

https://twitter.com/formularacers_/status/1555472147140599810?t=qBvvwrcx6mlS9WhVgVPCgQ&s=19

Today's installment of this story

I've no idea how reliable the source is.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431686#Comment_119431686

In the interest of journalistic fairness, would you mind crediting the source of the bit in bold.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431787#Comment_119431787

Sorry, have edited my post above. It was from Autosport 2010

guyfo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431686#Comment_119431686

Maybe you should check yourself. This is literally the second paragraph in the article you linked to:

"Their ban, however, had been overturned by a French court because of irregularities in the process.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432601#Comment_119432601

And if you read on, "In a statement released on Monday, the FIA said both Briatore and Symonds had expressed regret and apologised for their actions."

"In return, they have asked the FIA to abandon the ongoing appeal procedure, but without the FIA recognising the validity of the criticisms levelled against the WMSC's decision of 21 September 2009, as well as to waive the right to bring any new proceedings against them on the subject of this affair," the FIA said."

So, as I said , not exactly overturned. The FIA agreed to abandon their appeal after "Briatore and Symonds had expressed regret and apologised for their actions.".

I deliberately used the words . not exactly overturned, to indicate that the matter did not end there but rather there was an out of court settlement in which Briatore was banned from F1. But this time the ban was until 2013, rather than indefinitely.

I thought the clarification was useful information to people reading this topic,. You obviously do not agree .

dulpit

So looks like McLaren will get Piastri. Alpine look amateurish, Aston Martin look like pros. McLaren, hard to tell. Could work out well, could be a disaster. And not looking super nice either.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418082#Comment_119418082

His driving is ragged at times though, as it was in 2018 with McLaren. If he had a Red Bull or Ferrari under him he could get away with a few mistakes but not in an Alpine or Aston Martin.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432700#Comment_119432700

It's true that he looks ragged at times. But I think there's always a nostalgic sense where we remember drivers in their prime as being flawless, but that doesn't reflect the reality.

Alonso wasnovertaken by Max the first time last weekend because alonso oversteered and went wide. Amd max went on to win but max had a big spin in that race too.

Nobody is perfect, being a little ragged isn't ideal but alonso is still doing a really good job. I predicted he'd be past it on his return last year and I'm delighted to have been wrong.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432668#Comment_119432668

Well unless they pay off the remaining year of Danny Ric's contract, I don't see that as too smart from McLaren

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1555505795558785026?t=s_8iOoXV61XsQjt4Ig0ivA&s=19

....thought McLaren were broke

quokula

I can see why McLaren would want to dump Ricciardo for Piastri, but I still don't understand why Oscar would choose McLaren over Alpine. Alpine are ahead of McLaren in the championship and are a full works constructor. Neither of them look like challenging the top 3 any time soon but there's nothing to suggest McLaren is a better opportunity, particularly when he's been embedded with Alpine as a junior driver and they're so invested in making him take the next step, while he'll arguably be a number 2 to Norris at McLaren. Then again I also didn't understand why Alonso would jump ship to a much slower Aston Martin, so maybe Alpine are just a complete mess behind the scenes with no optimism looking forward.

I also don't see why everyone is assuming this means Daniel will go to Alpine - I just can't see them or any other F1 team wanting him. He's performing poorly and trending down over time. Surely they'd rather look to another free agent like Mick Schumacher who's performing reasonably well and trending up over time. I still reckon Daniel's future will be a negotiated move to one of the other McLaren teams in Indy or Formula E that honours the payment terms of his contract.

Hijpo

But is it not the case that Ricciardos poor performances have cost McLaren constructors points?

I know points and tables tell a different story but the feeling I get is that McLaren have a bit more about them as an outfit over Alpine.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119433177#Comment_119433177

Not to defend his poor form, however Ricardo has some points. Piastri has never raced an F1 car, sure he's tested one, but hot lapping isn't racing properly, he could wither under the pressure and not score any

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119433177#Comment_119433177

Yeah that's a fair statement, with a better performance from their second car they might be ahead. Alpine have lost a bunch of points to reliability though which is something you'd expect them to get on top of. Remember Alonso put the Alpine on the front row of the grid in Canada before going backwards in the race due to a power loss, and he was on a lap fast enough to be at the front of the grid in Australia too until a hydraulic failure.

I'd still rather a works team than a customer team, at least Alpine have a chance if they ever turn around a really good car but McLaren will never beat their supplier. At best it's a sideways move and in no way would I say it's worth tearing up your contract with the team that supported you all the way through the junior series and to start your F1 career in such an acrimonious manner.

bennyx_o

Interesting video on the whole Piastri fiasco (not sure how to embed):

More Piastri/Alpine F1 shocks by Peter Windsor - YouTube

Apparently Alpine's deal with Piastri was that if he wasn't going to drive for them next year he'd have a seat at Williams for a year with Alpine financially backing him, so he knew he'd be driving in F1 next season. Guess he didn't want to go to Williams when there was a chance to join McLaren, and also appears to explain why Alpine were only offering Alonso a 1 year deal, if of course it's true at all.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119433070#Comment_119433070

Norris is nearly 20 points ahead of either Alpine driver. If McLaren had 2 decently performing drivers, they would be well ahead of Alpine. Even hamstrung by Ricciardo's performance, they're only 4 points behind Alpine.

I'd say it's fair to assume the mclaren is the better car and team. Alpine show no signs of improving the engine which is the worst on the grid. Mclaren has the Mercedes engine. I think it's a better seat for a few reasons.