Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

tandcapply

Looking for input the quote I've just recieved about as I didn't see any similiar Growatt system.

Panels: 12 x JKM420N-6RL3 420 Watt panels (Tiger N-Type 66TR 400-420 Watt). System Size 5.04kW

Hybrid Inverter: Growatt 6000TL-X 6.000 kW Total Inverter Rating

Can only add Growatt attery in the future.

Is it worth it going down the Growatt road or look at mysolis, etc?

tandcapply

Looking for input the quote I've just recieved about as I didn't see any similiar Growatt system.

Panels: 12 x JKM420N-6RL3 420 Watt panels (Tiger N-Type 66TR 400-420 Watt). System Size 5.04kW

Hybrid Inverter: Growatt 6000TL-X 6.000 kW Total Inverter Rating

Includes Eddi for hot water and own app. Can only add Growatt attery in the future.

Euro 6,800 after Grant (BER cert not included).

Location Dublin

Any feedback?

oaklands

Check the model # of Inverter

the -X is not Hybrid

-XH model is Hybrid

Also check it will be accepted by ESBN...the rules will be different shortly such that 6K is no bueno for an NC6 submission. Lots of info on this forum about the change in rules interpretation by ESBN.

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Solar PV battery options.

tandcapply

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120524215#Comment_120524215

Thanks, will check the model if -X or -XH

Not sure where do I ask ESBN as assuming that if I get this installed in the next couple of months and the rules change,would anyone be able to confirm if will be ok or not now?

tandcapply

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120524422#Comment_120524422

Was told that the inverter is the hybrid inverter.

Was also told that "the NC6 form is your "registration microgeneration" submitted to ESB networks". So does it mean that it's eligible (at present at least)?

homingbird

What i would like to know is there still cowboys out there fitting solar system as i had one last year @ my door said he was working in the area where there is money to be made i guess you will find them i figure time will weed them out.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120526381#Comment_120526381

Probably pressure spray your driveway at the same time, boss.

The complete opposite of this are a shower who will come out, having got all your requirements weeks earlier. They'll have a folder with the quote, but won't show it until you sit down to discuss your solar adventure, like you were contemplating joining a sect. They insist your partner is present. (I insisted otherwise). What follows then is a carefully structured mind altering interminable hard sell, like the ones people endure for timeshare apartments in the Canaries or Orlando, to get a free ticket to Disney World. I stopped these pair of a-holes 20 mins in, demanded to know how much the quote was, so I could get back to fixing my car, or mowing the grass. They resisted doggedly, I just had to hear the important revelations that only I was about to behold. Unbelievable, I stood up and said I had to go, but leave the folder, or take it with them. Needless to say, when they then skipped to the final page of 20, the quote was outrageous. I had to laugh, so focused was their attempt to mesmerise. Where do they learn this sht? The Jedi tricks of these c*s put me off solar for years. At least now the gouging is shameless.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120526592#Comment_120526592

Ohh yeah, there are people active in the marketplace today who've been doing that sell for years - I'm sure the system works, otherwise why would they do it. (See what I did there? LOL) I had it back in 2021 when they swung by my place. To be fair to the lad, he gave a good speel. It was when he started talking electrical jargon to me, I thought to myself "What's going on here now? This lad hasn't a clue!" - DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!

Don't forget the "Now you can't tell any of your neighbors the price, this price is explicitly for you as one of the first in the area".

To those people out there searching for quotes - don't get disheartened. There are some good suppliers still out there - who won't give you the huckster snakeoil saleman routine. its a pain, but do the mileage and get at least 5-6 quotes. You'll get a semi decent one I'm sure. Sadly not as good as 2020-21, that was the golden years, but still solar VERY good proposition for Return on Investment with the price of leccie today

deezell

That should read 'the price of leccie here'. Most expensive in Europe, double the average. Maybe if it normalises back to 20c/kwh plus vat, solar payback periods will only make sense if they stop gouging and present reasonable labour charges. Of course, if the rate drops, we'll have to go back to subsidising the wind crowd. The real problem is when vendors of anything get a taste of high margins, they're loathe return to competition, preferring informal cartels to maintain excess profit. A kwh of electrons, a cup of coffee, a glass of wine, an hour spent screwing a solar panel to a roof, extortionate prices which might never drop back.

oaklands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120526372#Comment_120526372

"Lots of info on this forum about the change in rules interpretation by ESBN."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058288583/esbn-new-regulations-on-nc6-form-on-6kw-25amp-inverters-may-31-2023#latest

zenith90

Any thoughts on this quote to supply and fit:

8 x 415w panels. 3.3kW system

Solar only Inverter 4kW

Zappi

Eddi

Mounting System & Cables/Isolators

BER excluded

7,650 pre grant

Incl. the charger grant, it seems to work out at €5k post grant, ex.VAT (+\- for some optimisers)

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527334#Comment_120527334

You seem quite negative about solar - even though the mathematics would paint a position contrary to that. Might as well take post #4816 above which is a 3.3Kw system. A small'ish system to be fair, which are generally more expensive per 1kwp than the larger installations as there is a lot of fixed labor charges, such as getting 2 lads onto your roof (which generally costs the same for 2 panels as it does for 10)

Anyway, assuming those panels were south facing 3.3Kwp will generate ...

So approx 3100 units. Give a price of (let's be pessimistic) and go for that €0.20/unit you mentioned. That's 3100 x €0.20 = €620/year. With an initial outlay of circa €5200 after grant, your looking at a ~8 year payback.

What am I missing here? That looks like a good deal

GReid2005

Received in 3 more quotes today, 2 of which came from the same company.

Single quote from first company:

System size: 4.2KW 

PV Panels – Jinko 420W by 10 - All black Panels. 

Panel Mounting – Renusol

Inverter - Growatt single phase 5G inverter.

Total cost: €7,300 Excluding VAT.

SEAI Grant - €2,400.

Price after grant - €4,900.

Optional Hot water – Add €700 for My Eddi Diverter.

Optional Battery – Add €3,000 for 5kw Growatt (Includes Hybrid inverter)

Optional Hybrid Inverter without battery – Add €750

First quote from second company is:

Array Size-6.72Kw

Jinko 420W ( 25 Year Product Warranty) 16

VDV tile Portrait per panel 16

Solis Hybrid Inverter RHI 6 kW-48ES 1

Solis Wifi Data stick 1

Soluna 5.37 kWh LV Wall bank (10 Year Warranty) 1

Auto Shut off Switch, DC Breaker, Analog Gen meter 1

€ 12,107.50 after Grant

Second quote from the same company is:

Array size-6.72Kw

Jinko 420W ( 25 Year Product Warranty) 16

VDV tile Portrait per panel 16

Solis Hybrid Inverter RHI 6 kW-48ES 1

Solis Wifi Data stick 1

Soluna 5.37 kWh LV Wall bank (10 Year Warranty) 1

My Energi Eddi Hot water Diverter 1

My Energi Zappi V2 7kW Tethered EV Charger 1

Auto Shut off Switch, DC Breaker, Analog Gen meter 1

€ 14,420.00 after grant.

Thats three companies with 4 quotes submitted, first company working out at better value so far. None have listened and taken on board my requirements. Signed up to a few at the Ideal Home Show just gone so hopefully a few more will touch base.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120528266#Comment_120528266

Will your consumption exactly match the output of the panels? I doubt it. A large proportion of this 3000kwh will just head onto the grid, for which you will receive zero. If you wish to try and 'save' this unwanted energy, you could spend another 5 grand on a battery, which will give you a days leeway on when to use your pv power, but remember, most of this 3000kwh is produced midday in the summer, not a nice neat 8kw per day over 24 hours. Output will be concentrated at midday, well over what you would need on a given day. I'd expect that you might use about 40% of your 3000kwh over 12 months, maybe 1200 kwh. Businesses are not dumb. They will set their quotes so that it always seems that the system is a no brainer. With a kwh currently costing about 45c, they can easily convince you to pay well above the odds for a solar installation, and the grant makes their job easier.

Tune into Primetime tonight, it's about Businesses using current inflation to justify extortionate margins on their services.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529083#Comment_120529083

A large proportion of this 3000kwh will just head onto the grid, for which you will receive zero.

Ahmmm.....why will you receive zero? Feed-in-Tariff (FIT) is paying sometimes as much as €0.24/unit - so you WILL get paid for it irrespective of if you have a battery or not. Most suppliers are paying in about the €0.20 mark for FIT, which is sort of why I picked €0.20 as a number to go with as if you use 100% of the energy you generate yourself (paying €0.20) or export 100% of the energy at a FIT rate of €0.20.... it's all the same. So you'll get paid one way or another for every unit of electricity you generate.

No, the math is good. A system like the 3.3Kwp listed above will pay for itself (assuming €5,200) in ~8 years. Giving a ROI of 12.5% per year. That's better than any bank and the vast majority of people out there would consider that rightly a good deal.

All that aside, I do think that what you say about business using inflation to justify prices is a valid one and that also could be the case that the €5,200 in this case "could" be over priced - but if the question "Is solar a good deal in general?".....then the answer is yes.

The math is fairly compelling on that one.

deezell

Don't forget they can shut down your feed in if no one needs it or if there is too much going in. This happened in Poland this week. If kwh prices do fall to the European average, the feed in rate will fall proportionally. Their 21c rate seems generous, but is based on the fact that they are charging more double that, and have not reduced prices for domestic customers. By their own estimates they say you will save €150 a year for feed in, they’ll easily get this back in the winter if charging 42+c/kwh, especially if you're devouring power with a heatpump.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529317#Comment_120529317

Your Straw -manning all over the show here. You've got your answer, but you don't want to hear it. - Go get a few quotes and come back if your interested, we'll all try and guide in the best direction, and a quick read of this thread, will give a general feel of quotes. If you don't want solar, that's ok too, nobody is forcing you.

When the FIT was first talked about, we were guessing it would be 5c ish, but at that time, day rates was about 14 and some night rates were 5c. Things have changed since then.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529317#Comment_120529317

I'm not sure where you going with these numbers.... but they just don't have much bearing in the present economic climate we're living in, or reality in general for that matter.

You first mentioned that you need a battery or the units you generate will be "lost". Now it's they can "turn you off if no one needs it" How exactly would they do that? Some guy will come around with a shovel or something....and why would they? They'd be more likely to turn off a power station and use your "free electricity" over burning gas/oil to generate their own.....as using your electricity is a higher profit margin for them!

Yes, they are giving you €0.21 and charging more than double that - but why would/do you care? The issue is that your solar panels are producing units and you are getting paid money for those units. That's makes the whole solar installation worthwhile, feed-in-tariff shortens the break even point.

As for heat pumps etc, so which is it then that you want? If your talking now about €0.42/kwh....then it will be the case then your solar panels are MORE beneficial aren't they aren't saving you €0.20/kwh, they are saving you now €0.42/kwh. Payback timeline will be 6 years then , not 8 years.

deezell

Your inverter will reduce output or shut down if the voltage on the grid is excessive due to too much local microgeneration. Remote shut down is also a possibility if implemented under the specifications.

HotSwap

Price of huawei gear just dropped a little. That combined with the 0% vat should see suppliers using that gear Cheeper. Anyone with huawei quotes ask to have them redone; you might save a few 100 euro.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529552#Comment_120529552

There are some fundamental engineering problems with that not least the fact that your inverter has zero knowledge about how much generation is going on (or not going on as the case maybe) out on the grid. If the voltage was too high, then the grid voltage would be out of spec (which has other issues outside of solar as there is an service level agreement of 230 +/- 10%) Nor has Eirgrid any ability to remote shutdown an inverter.

i'm not going to pollute the quotes thread with anymore nonsense - but feel free to spin up or continue the thread in the "is solar worth it" thread if you want.

Dev1234

Hi all,

I was hoping to get your input on what I should prioritise when comparing two systems.

I've two quotes that are roughly the same cost to install but the details are different. (Apologies if the units of measure are wrong, I'm new to this!!!)

First system:

16 panel 6.4kWp with 5kWp inverter and 10.1kWh battery

Second system:

22 panel 8.8kWp with 6kWp inverter and 5kWh battery

For an extra €1k I can get a change over switch with the first system. Funnily, the second installer said that the ESB doesn't allow those anymore. Is that the case?

I'm aware the 6kWp inverter is being phased out soo would need to act relatively quickly.

For context, my house runs solely on electricity, no gas or solid fuels.

It's A3 energy rated with a ground source heat pump and solar for the hot water already installed

I've a plug in hybrid car and when i trade the other car in a few years I'll be going for a full electric.

Should I be prioritising number of panels over battery size? Given that the house runs solely on electricty should i be prioritising the cross-over switch?

Thanks in advance for any guidance/input!!

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531085#Comment_120531085

in relation to panels.. what orientation is your roof? the invertor might be a bottleneck in production.. so if you have a 5kw inverter and lets say 7kwp you can only take in 5kwh at one point in time.. depending on your setup the rest gets clipped or lost.. of course this is mainly a problem from spring to autumn as the other months in winter its likely you might not hit peak power a lot of the time anyway. in relation to full switch over.. my installer wouldnt do it or even a backup socket but givenergy (product not installer) said i could get my own electrician to wire a socket. Ive done that and it will be enough to run a few bits a bobs during a power cut. The full switch over is nice but i couldnt justify the spend as we wouldnt use it that often. The socket in comparison cost me 300 to get fitted and that was mainly due to the length of cables/outside conduit etc had to be used and time to get it where i wanted.. so sorry i havent answered any questions :) have you done the basics like know your 24 hour usage, and have you plugged in your address to the pv web site to calc your solar potential? your installer probably will have supplied these anyway. People say get panels first then add the battery as its easier to do later.. depending on time of year - battery has potential to save a fair bit if you can charge on night rates and it covers your day usage.. solar obviously gives you good bang for book spring to autumn with less in winter.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120531085#Comment_120531085

Q1) "Should I be prioritising number of panels over battery size (given that the house runs solely on electricity)". Yes, more panels is always recommended here-

Q2) "Should I be prioritising the change over switch for power outages?" No if you live in a major city. I'm in Dublin and had 1 power outage of an hour-ish in last 3 years of working from home. So not needed for me. Others had many last year alone in rural areas. Without the change-over switch, house will still run from battery but battery won't fill from solar during the power cut. What some have done here is leave a % in the battery if they are in area that is more at risk of outages. So could get it to charge when gets to X% charge on battery (which means you will pay more charging on day rate). Personally I'd use the money on more panels, that's helping every hour of every day versus once in X for a power outage.

DC999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120529924#Comment_120529924

Without re-opening this thread (as agree it should be parked), it's really the 'buckets' / stuff we can and can't influence or change. As I've gotten older it's something I'm more aware of. What I get wound up about and what I can't change...

1) Stuff we can change / improve: Reduce electricity usage (if there is stuff we can’t turn off, use less). Then make your own electricity - use the grant and 0% VAT rate to subsidy the cost of the install. Or go DIY for those brave + technical souls (which excludes me). Embrace all that.

2) Stuff we (individually) can’t change: Price of electricity in Ireland. Price installers charge for install. Each business will decide the level of profit per job. So find the right company for you. Try ignore all that or get involved to lobby to change it. Shop around for the best rates you can get for your usage (which does take a lot of time for more complex setups).

bullit_dodger

I wouldn't get too worried about 5Kw verses 6Kw inverter. Yeah, the 6Kw is "better", but I did the math on that one and in truth you'll only miss out on 1Kw production for 2-3 hrs for (maybe) 20 days a year. It'll work out about €20-30/year. On those glorious days where the "inverter clipping" is happening, you'll be producing so much free power anyway, it'll be a moot point. Since your typical solar installation saves €1000+ a year, this is a loss of 2-3%.... maybe.

That said, if it was me.....I'd go for the 8.8Kwp and the 6Kwp. Why? Well it's a (relatively) easy thing to add an additional battery down the road. Batteries operate on a law of diminishing returns (mostly). The first 5kwh you get will get cycled everyday. It could be that the 2nd 5Kwh you get also gets cycled everyday, but there will come a point where adding more storage capacity doesn't get cycled - in which case it's just dead weight. With FIT (Feed-in-Tariff) you'll get paid for those units in summer which you export, which will somewhat cover your winter production, or lack of production I should say. So the bigger panels will help winter both in "summer offset" as well as giving you 30% more production in winter where you need it.

Either way, you won't pick a disaster. Both options are good and will save you money in the long run.

Dev1234

Thanks Mick and DC.

The orientation of my roof is below so should I be looking at splitting the installation across two parts of the roof, the one facing south-westerly and the other facing south-easterly? Or what would would be the most efficient installation pattern?

Fair point about the cost of the change over switch although I'm rural and had a power outage last winter so you're option of getting an electrician to install something may make more sense.

I do have night rate electricity so charging the battery at night would also be an option.

Thanks again!!

UnhappyCustomer

Quote 1

8.3KW - Panels Jinko 415W by 20 - All black Panels.

Mounting System – Renusol

+ Hybrid Inverter + Eddie

Final price after grant - €9,200

BER not included, Slates if needed not included

Warranties:

25 years for both performance and panel, 10 years for Hybrid Inverter.

5 years labour warranty.

Insurance – Included.

Quote 2

8.6KW - Panels Longi Solar 410W by 21 - All black Panels.

Mounting System – K2 SolidRail

+ Hybrid Inverter Solis + Eddie + 11 Optimisers

Final price after grant - €13,346

BER included and any slate included

Review after 12 months of the system to ensure actual performance versus forecast.

Warranties:

12-15 years for panel and 25-30 for performance, 5-10 years for Hybrid Inverter.

1 year labour warranty.

Insurance – Included.

I have other quotes for smaller systems but these 2 are the ones I have more doubts about

Do you see any flaws? Is there anything missing I would need to ask?

What panels/mounting system/any other parameter do you prefer or think is better?

What about the pricing?

bullit_dodger

There's a quote thread, you should really post them there.

Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1 - Page 162 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

The reason why is that if everyone posted individual threads, then the information would be lost to the collective unless everyone went and read every post in all the threads.

I shouldn't answer this here, but Quote 1 is pretty competitive. Quote 2, are you sure you need optimizers? And if so, why are they not in Quote 1.