When will life go back to normal

rovers_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236809#Comment_118236809

They have a warped sense of what would improve the health of the nation.

Their bans on all outdoor sports for as long as they did it was shameful, easy to see none of them have ever taken part in any sporting activities.

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236879#Comment_118236879

It isn't just the doctors telling fibs. Back around Feb or March 2021, Eamon Dunphy had a journalist named Philip O'Connor on his podcast. O'Connor is a Stockholm based raging leftie who appears in the Irish media the odd time to give his two pence on any newsworthy event that happens in Sweden (given most internationally newsworthy events in Sweden have involved terrorism and other ethnic crime he's a strange choice, but anyway).

In March O'Connor claimed that the wheels were coming off Swedish society, their hands off approach had been an absolute disaster, the public were ready to hang Anders Tegnell from a lamp post, the place was basically descending into chaos.

Of course, as we all know, Sweden has sometimes experienced spikes when their neighbours have been doing OK, yet 18 months in things have largely evened out, it is no chaotic outlier, and is currently reporting rock bottom numbers.

I asked Phil on Twitter if he would go back on Dunphy's show and explain why none of the scutter he blathered on about ever happened, why did Sweden not collapse, if he would concede that they handled the crisis calm and rationally.

He blocked me, naturally.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236103#Comment_118236103

Honestly it sounds like you're too far gone so anything I would say would fall on deaf ears so why would I waste my time?

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236928#Comment_118236928

Deaf ears?

You still haven't responded to the biggest takeaway from all of this. Of the 5500 odd "Covid deaths", only circa 500 of these people would still be with us if Covid did not exist. Virtually every last one of the other 5000 Covid deaths would currently be deceased regardless. That is a fact that nobody in the media is willing to make clear. If you are a reasonably healthy person in your 70s and 80s it is quite unlikely you will die if you catch Covid, yet NPHET has thousands of these people living in permanent terror that they'll catch it from the postman.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236947#Comment_118236947

What scientific proof are you basing this on?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236947#Comment_118236947

Of the 5500 odd "Covid deaths", only circa 500 of these people would still be with us if Covid did not exist.

Thank you for those numbers. Now I'm going to ask you to provide evidence to back this up. Not wishy washy nonsense, actual evidence to back up your above statement showing a breakdown of actual mortality rates versus covid mortality rates.

Or admit you made it up.

I'll take either to be honest

PhoneMain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236727#Comment_118236727

We def will be back to normal in 2 or 3 years time. Fair enough people will wear masks and they may be mandatory in certain situations e.g. healthcare. I think some people will work from home but that will be by choice. I think life otherwise will be fairly similar to 2019. We have have detrimental pandemics before this, the 1959 Hong Kong flu killed 2m worldwide (with a lower popn than now) and most people never heard of it. We will be fine.

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118234857#Comment_118234857

The vaccine is more dangerous to teenage boys than Covid itself is.

https://gript.ie/new-study-vaccine-side-effects-6-times-more-dangerous-than-covid-19-hospitalisation-for-teenage-boys/

#factsnotfeelings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237625#Comment_118237625

Are you going to provide any evidence to back up your earlier claim re covid mortality or did you just make it up?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237633#Comment_118237633

By any chance did you read the very important notice at the top of the pages of that “study”? Are you relying on right wing clown shows run by John McGuirk for your “science”?

Considering your statements about pseudoscience, quackery and false statements given to the public, I too would like you to show where you got the figures about false/true Covid deaths. Time to put up or shut up.

old_aussie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218947#Comment_118218947

Back to normal.

If you consider the UK's 7 day average of 43,482 new cases normal, by all means move there. You too can become a statistic.

current new cases of covid 19 in uk - Google Search

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237638#Comment_118237638

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/three-in-10-covid-19-patients-admitted-to-icu-died-says-report-1.4719379+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

"Of the 1,813 people admitted to ICU with the virus between early April and late October 2020, 530 died, the report said."

I don't know how familiar you are with hospital protocol, but I'll tell you.

If a person who is terminally ill takes a bad turn, they are stabilised, given pain relief etc.

They are not put in ICU, as prolonging their survival is at this stage pointless.

A reasonably fit and healthy 92 year old who catches Covid would be put in an ICU. A 32 year old in the final weeks of stage 5 cancer who catches Covid would not be put in ICU. That's how it works.

Of the 5500 plus dead from Covid, just 530 of the deaths were among people who doctors believed stood a chance of going on to lead an active life post Covid if they recovered.

Every last one of the other 5000 Covid deaths would be, as of November 28th 2021, deceased by now regardless.

The vast majority would have died within weeks, months.

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/convicted-killer-john-walsh-becomes-first-prisoner-in-irish-jail-to-die-from-covid-19-41062298.html

Terminally ill prisoner weeks from dying of cancer, is down as a Covid death.

This is the level of book cooking you are dealing with. This man was on his way out. Covid hastened it by a few weeks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237740#Comment_118237740

Your link is borked, got another one?

Regarding your strawman argument about the cancer patient, if he died in a car crash would you be put out if his death was listed as such rather than cancer? No of course you wouldn't because it would make sense. The same logic applies here wrt covid cases.

It's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' type question. The answer is we don't really know.

My guess is that it will go back to normal gradually, and as we get more certainty that we have a backstop of pharmaceutical antivirals that can take the strain off the healthcare system. The vaccines are obviously doing a great job, but we need both in the armoury.

We have two of those now from Pfizer and Merck, and more will inevitably follow.

There's a way to go yet. My view of it is we're going to just have to just grin and bear it as there isn't really anything else we can do. It could be worse, it's not WWII, but in terms of economic and social impact it's right up there with some of the biggest events in modern history. I think we've become so used to it over the last couple of years that we are beginning to lose perspective on just how dramatic an event this is.

It's frustrating and infuriating but we're dealing with an adapting pathogen and all anyone can do is roll with it and try our best to figure a way out.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236908#Comment_118236908

Twitter super wanker Philip o Connor, he's not a journalist anymore than Ryan Tubridy is a Mr Universe

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118235941#Comment_118235941

Do we know anything about these womens health other than the fact they are pregnant?

I just did a quick search and found something from 2010 from a Dublin study which said 19% of pregnant women were obese at their first antenatal visit, it was 25% in Galway.

Then of course there are other health issues that the women may have had before they even got pregnant.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118234712#Comment_118234712

Every time I read posts like this? ,My extended family have lost 4 strong healthy members with no other health issues, and others are left long term disabled with Long Cpvid...

There are several deserted islands around our coasts ideal for folk like you who are oblivious to and a danger to others. After all you clearly intend to ignore rules to safeguard others

Oh and you think that because folk who were already coping with illness and who die then because of covid should not be seen as covid victims?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238029#Comment_118238029

Yes we do know something else apart from pregnancy status, none of them had taken the vaccine.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237633#Comment_118237633

Not using gript as your news sources is correlated with being less misinformed

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209586#Comment_118209586

I know. I'm banned from all those threads.

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238040#Comment_118238040

How many members of these people were fully vaccinated?

What age were they?

Had they health conditions that they themselves or you weren't aware of?

landofthetree

I said 2024 in summer 2020. Nothing I've seen so far makes me think it will be before then at the earliest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239625#Comment_118239625

Are you under the assumption that Grace did the autopsy?

Dr. Bre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239649#Comment_118239649

Why 2024? Did you predict variants ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239677#Comment_118239677

Variants were predicted from the first day the virus was sequenced.

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239661#Comment_118239661

Well she should have said there vaccinaton status if she knew it.

Age also is a another factor to be taken into consideration and nothing to to do with the autopsy.

Describing a person as strong can very vague in my experience.

landofthetree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239677#Comment_118239677

Pre electionJoe Biden and Harris told us all a rushed vaccines would fail. They were right.

The R0 of a new variants just keep going up.

"This virus has surprised us a lot. It is beyond anything we feared," said Dr Aris Katzourakis, who studies viral evolution at the University of Oxford. "The fact it has happened twice in 18 months, two lineages (Alpha and then Delta) each 50% more transmissible is a phenomenal amount of change."

It's "foolish", he thinks, to attempt to put a number on how high it could go, but he can easily see further jumps in transmission over the next couple of years. Other viruses have far higher R0s and the record holder, measles, can cause explosive outbreaks

Plus it wont get weaker anytime soon.

"One thing that is often claimed, but attracts scientific scorn, is that the virus must get milder in order to spread more easily. There is very little evolutionary pressure on the virus for that to happen. The virus is already off into the next person long before it kills the person it infected. And the people who do the most spreading (younger people) are those who don't get very ill."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57431420

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239718#Comment_118239718

How has the vaccine failed in your opinion?

patnor1011

It is not very popular and everyone refuse to touch this topic but from what we know about covid and similar diseases obesity looks to be one of the main factors determining your covid experience and chance of survival. Since that is not a stuff where we can improve quick as our fastfood obsession and unwillingness to put effort in preparing food we consume, covid related restrictions and disruptions are here to stay for a very long time.

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237920#Comment_118237920

I copy pasted a paragraph from the article. Go Google it and find the article yourself. You won't believe it anyway so I'm nt gonna spoon feed you, I already showed you the most relevant part.

re your car crash scenario- that might be relevant if Eamon Ryan demanded we all stop driving to prevent car crash deaths.

Actually, don't be giving him ideas.....

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238231#Comment_118238231

You are aware that Gript are reporting a study, they didn't commission an in house one themselves.

Who do you regard as a more reliable bastion of truth?

Claire Byrne? Pat Kenny? Joe Duffy?

All absolute spoofers who regularly give a national platform to peddlers of pseudoscientific woo.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241057#Comment_118241057

I sorted your link but its paywalled

I googled and found plenty of articles on the topic, but none which back up your claim, which I can only conclude was made up, unless you want to provide a source that can actually be examined and verified

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238040#Comment_118238040

You have my sympathy. I know of two definites, possibly three or four, people who have died of ICU of Covid. One only in his 30s, was a bit overweight and asthmatic but nothing more than that.

However, the statistics from HSPC.ie and the HSE make it clear that it is a coincidental statistical anomaly. Much like how most of us will never know a sex murderer, yet there are people in small town Baltinglass who were in the same class as two of them (Larry Murphy and David Lawlor). Or for a less dramatic example, how most people will never personally know an Irish football international, yet hundreds of teenagers can probably say they knowy three of them of roughly the same age from the small Lucan- Leixlip area alone. Highly unlikely numerical coincidences do happen- I happen to know, or at least know second hand, somewhere between 0.5 and 1% of people in Ireland who died in ICU from Covid, who would be alive if it never existed. That takes nothing away from the fact that we are counting thousands of people who were already days or weeks from death as a Covid death. It is absolute madness.

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241079#Comment_118241079

Read the Google cache article if you have used up your weekly IT credits so, can be read for free via that.. What part, exactly are you unsure of?

11% of Irish Covid deaths have happened in an ICU. 89% on general hospital wards, nursing homes, hospices.

Terminally ill patients will not be transferred to ICU from nursing homes, hospices and general hospital wards. There is no moral reason to prolong the suffering of someone already desperately ill with, say, lung cancer, by sending them to ICU if they catch Covid.

Residents of nursing homes and general wards who not already on the brink of death will, if needs be, be transferred to ICU if they catch Covid and take a particularly bad turn.

Exactly what part of that do you not understand?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241120#Comment_118241120

More whataboutery and strawman arguments and little in the way of verifiable facts or data.

Let me show you. For example, in terms of health and pre-existing conditions, the vaccine has a large role to play with 93% of the pop (over 18) vaccinated, with 7% not vaccinated.

A study by the CSO of 136 recent ICU patients revealed the following

In terms of ICU patients, that 7% is accounting for 54% of all ICU admissions (73 patients)

Of those 54%, the median age is 54 and 30% (22 patients) of them had no underlying condition, whereas 97% of the vaccinated patients did

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/1122/1262461-unvaccinated-hse-hospital-admissions/

So the truth is a bit more nuanced and the answers lie in the data. By all means, feel free to post any data or studies you come across

Here is the CSO collection if you want to have a read

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-covid19/covid-19informationhub/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241209#Comment_118241209

Exactly what part of that do you not understand?

Just looking for you to back up this statement with some actual, verifiable data or admit you made it up

Of the 5500 odd "Covid deaths", only circa 500 of these people would still be with us if Covid did not exist.

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241211#Comment_118241211

Where did I mention vaccines? I'm not particularly sold on them, but I had mine, I don't campaign against them.

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241228#Comment_118241228

HPSC.ie screenshot on my phone, HSPC report from October 26tth 2021.

Deaths- 5432

Hospitalised who died- 2994

ICU deaths- 595 (11%)

Not admitted to ICU who died- 4837 (89%)

If you believe I'm making that up, go on ahead. I already linked an Irish Times article that broadly corresponds with the figures given. 89% of patients were ruled as ineligible for ICU treatment, as per the HSPC.

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/three-in-10-covid-19-patients-admitted-to-icu-died-says-report-1.4719379+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

"Of the 1,813 people admitted to ICU with the virus between early April and late October 2020, 530 died, the report said." (I'm assuming October 2020 is a typo and actually means October 2021)

You might be better taking your concerns to the HSPC or the Irish Times seeing as you don't seem to believe their maths.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241285#Comment_118241285

Can you provide a link to a reputable study that supports your statement on Covid deaths? The one you linked to on Grift clearly states it is not peer reviewed, in big red keso cannot be considered as reputable.

There is huge irony in what you have provided so far given your accusations relating to NPHET, and the CMO using pseudoscience and quackery. So far you are the only one to use such “science” to support your statements.

BruteStock

Dr Tony Holohan: 'We think we've flattened that curve so much that there is no peak - April 2020

Leo varadkar "Two weeks to flatten the Curve" - May 2020

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241326#Comment_118241326

NPHET and the government promote quackery that can be disproven with statistics from the CSO, HSPC and HSE.

I'm done with your trolling bud. Facts and figures have been shown, you just don't believe them because they contradict the hysteria Claire Byrne feeds you.

Covid has genuinely killed circa 600 people who would be alive today if Covid never existed, and I know, or at least friend of a friend know, four of them (or, to apportion blame where deserved, the first cohort would still be here if Leo Varadkar didn't refuse to shut the borders because it was sacrilige of EU principles, the latter portion would be alive if Martin had decided to close the country off last December to stop the ex pats bringing the Kent variant home. He instead trusted them to stay in their rooms for two weeks)

Virtually all of the rest would as of 29/11/2021 have passed away within a few weeks of their Covid hastened death. Just because you refuse to believe that does not make it any less true.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058219214/when-will-life-go-back-to-normal

Ultimately when the people of Ireland say this is not how they want to live their lives or how they want their young to live their lives.

Until then, this government will take acquiescence for acceptance and even approval.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241320#Comment_118241320

Ah I see the issue, you are doing 1+1 and getting 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241355#Comment_118241355

McGarnigle2020, you have made a claim there relating to the “true” numbers of people who have died from Covid, yet have provided absolutely no evidence or study to support that apart from your own misguided beliefs. You have shown no facts, you are engaging in the very quackery that you accuse the CMO of.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241347#Comment_118241347

Do you know what “flatten the curve” means, and why it is regularly used when discussing infectious diseases? Are you under the impression that the term means that the virus is gone?

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241397#Comment_118241397

So what do you make of the 89% who died outside of an ICU ward?

It certainly wasn't because there was no room for them. At no stage, even when we had 8000 cases per day and barely any vaccines given out, were people turned away from full ICU wards. There were always beds available. Last December and January, when we saw people being treated in ambulances in the car parks in London and up the North, we, somehow, managed. We never reached that tipping point.

I am genuinely asking- under what reason were these people not admitted to ICU wards?

Answer- because they were too ill with a pre existing illness to justify transfer.

You can obfuscate all you want, I do realise we live in the post intellectual era and we are expected to ignore science and listen to people like Greta and AOC and Paul Murphy and any other loon of the month who prefers feelings over facts, but some of us hold the maths skills and rationale we acquired in 4th class quite dear to us.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241595#Comment_118241595

I have the figures provided by the HSPC/HSE/CMO etc to go by, what have you got to prove your point? You are speculating without any proof, show me how you know for sure that only 500 have died from Covid.

Not every critically ill patient makes it to an ICU.

What you are posting is just unsubstantiated muck, the very thing you accused the CMO of.

McGarnigle2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241628#Comment_118241628

"Not every critically ill patient makes it to ICU"

Indeed.

Usually as a result of car crashes, heart attacks, stabbings, assaults, gunshot wounds. Y

You are aware that despite what those fake videos from Wuhan in 2020 showed, people do not generally collapse from Covid. They feel a bit off, or are a close contact of someone, they get tested, and it goes from there. They call an ambulance or doctor if they take a bad turn, the triage at the hospital deduces whether ICU or a regular ward is appropriate. If patients are sent to a regular ward and end up dying there days later the medics involved will likely face a fitness to practice hearing for gross negligence, possibly even a criminal prosecution.

At a stretch, there will be a handful of people, mostly living alone, who because they have a fear of doctors/ hospitals or because they had fell deep into conspiracy theories didn't believe Covid existed, who will have died of Covid having not sought medical attention.

The number is negligible. I would imagine it somewhere matches the percent of people who die at home of cancer every year having not once consulted a doctor out of distrust or phobia and had not a single piece of treatment bar over the counter meds.

I am not responding to your posts any longer. If you believe Ireland is missing 5500 plus elderly people who would be alive today if not for Covid, keep peddling it. It isn't true but as said we live in the post truth post intellectual era.

No more replies to your nonsense.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241672#Comment_118241672

So know proof nor studies, just your speculation then?

PintOfView

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241368#Comment_118241368

Do you think at some stage the people of Ireland will say "to hell with the schools, let all the teachers get Covid", and "to hell with the hospitals and ICUs, aren't most of us ok, we just want our young people to be able to go to night clubs"?