Austria hits panic button.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203952#Comment_118203952

Here's the thing - the vaccine protects YOU. Whether Damo down the road has got his vaccination or not does not affect YOU. How about you keep your authoritarian nose out of other people's private health information and stop curtain twitching like some old Biddy fresh home from morning Mass.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203966#Comment_118203966

Yes it does affect me.

Firstly Damo down the road can catch it and will spread it to more people that he would if he was vaccinated.

Secondly, Damo down the road will statistically take up more resources when he catches it.

Thirdly, Damo and his unvaccinated buddies might waste so many resources that systems cannot cope and more lockdowns are imposed.

It's mad that almost 2 years into this, some of us are still having to explain very simple ideas to others.

You might well be in favour of lockdowns. Well actually, if you support people who won't get vaccinated, you are de facto in favour of lockdowns.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203925#Comment_118203925

Current vaccines work. You don't get the flu jab from a decade ago and think you are good to go (unless you don't understand medicine, viruses or vaccines - which, let's face it, is a lot of people).

Not surprised to see the 'atheism is a religion' type argument crop up here. There's an uncomfortable overlap between the alt-right (far right?) and vaccine scepticism.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203966#Comment_118203966

People keep up with this idiotic idea that other people being unvaccinated does not risk your health. This is total bullshit. Two extreme cases:

1. Everyone, bar none, is vaccinated. Likelihood: virus dies out completely.
2. Nobody is vaccinated. Likelihood: everyone gets the virus.

The reality is somewhere between those two extremes. And which extreme you are closer to depends on one thing: how many people are vaccinated. Simple.

Lumen

I know people hate links to long podcasts etc but the first 13 mins of this one directly addresses the topic of this thread including an interview with the Austrian chancellor.

[Newshour] Austria plans mandatory Covid vaccine

 https://podcastaddict.com/episode/131563485

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203985#Comment_118203985

If you think it does affect you then you've no confidence in the vaccine you've taken. Why? I've every confidence in the one I took.

First Point - Wrong. Vaccinated/Unvaccinated can catch and spread Covid in equal measure. All the vaccines do is make it less likely that one requires medical intervention. Are you seriously of the opinion that the vast majority of cases since September (when the vaccination pretty much completed) are unvaccinated adults?

Second Point - If that is the case, then close the hospitals full stop. No resources wasted then. The point in having hospitals is to treat people who are unwell. If the hospitals cannot cope even after all the billions they are given then it's the hospitals that are setup wrong. Damo pays taxes, so he's equally entitled to treatment as the next person. If you want to advocate for a tiered hospital system like you advocate for a tiered society, then let's have a tiered tax system that reflects this - fair?

Third Point - 94% of Damos buddies are fully vaccinated, yet here we are with a hospital system on the verge of collapse and the HSE closing 4 ICU units in south Meath.

As for lockdowns, no not in favour of lockdowns now that we've pretty much fully vaccinated the adult population. If the hospitals get over run and collapse, fcuk them, they deserve it after the years of pissing away our hard earned taxes - just feel sorry for the frontline staff though who do try hard in most instances.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204028#Comment_118204028

Just on your first point, when you exclude kids under 12 (as they haven't been offered a vaccine) 40% of the cases come for unvaccinated people. That's 40% from.... what ever that % is now, 7%? Meaning the vaccinated are either not catching it at the same rate as the unvaccinated or they are not spreading it as much as unvaccinated.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203985#Comment_118203985

Before Covid, did you get the annual flu vaccine every year?

Why was this never mandated given we've had an A+E crisis more or less every winter for the last 20+ years?

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204041#Comment_118204041

Thats better than I thought - soon the last of those unvaccinated 7% will have caught covid anyways and either gained natural immunity from it or popped their clogs.

I guess the reason more vaccinated people are not showing up as cases is down to them not even realising they're covid positive and thus not getting tested...

Beasty

That first point is complete nonsense. Vaccines and boosters reduce transmission and symptoms. That is accepted and I've no idea why people continue with such claims

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204053#Comment_118204053

Can ya not watermark posts with a 'Misleading' text with a link to refute the lies?

Like a little factcheck!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118174858#Comment_118174858

That's an old breakdown in cases among vaccinated and unvaccinated.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204053#Comment_118204053

Half right (symptoms) and half wrong (transmission), and I've had this out with you before. You obviously see no correlation in the current level of cases and the fact that 94% of all adults are vaccinated. It's literally impossible for these levels of cases at this level of vaccination if vaccines were reducing transmission.

The fact that vaccines reduce symptoms by it's nature will fool people into thinking they don't have the virus. Would you go get tested for a virus you don't think you have? Think about it.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204063#Comment_118204063

Why are you zoning in on the unvaccinated? 4 in 10 cases among the vaccinated is the more shocking statistic here. And once we see the immunity wain amongst all the 30-60 year olds - the unvaccinated figures will be a drop in the ocean.

The media frenzy on the unvaccinated will be long gone in a few weeks when we see that they are not the problem

Beasty

You really cannot accept it reduces transmission despite all the evidence?

You really believe that nonsense put out by the anti vaxxers?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204053#Comment_118204053

The extent to which they reduce transmission is underwhelming to people, when they see locations with high vaccination such as Waterford (or Ireland itself) teeming with infection.

Without sterilising immunity vaccinated people just will spread it.

To seize on the small sub-group of unvaccinated people and try to blame them for everything is gross and dishonourable.

They've been in some form of lockdown or quasi-lockdown for 14 months. The last time a now-unvaccinated person could legally enter a pub or restaurant in Ireland was at the beginning of September 2020.

I would love to know who would be scapegoated next if we did have 100% vaccination. We cycle through scapegoats.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204079#Comment_118204079

What antivaxxers? I'm using the figures posted above along with my own logic.

Time will tell as to who is right. The scramble for booster programs should be a telling sign

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204077#Comment_118204077

Just correcting the OP who stated that vaccines do not reduce transmission at all. To do that, a comparison between incidence rate in vaccinated vs unvaccinated is needed.

4 in 10 cases among the vaccinated is shocking.... why? If we had 100% vaccine coverage, 10 in 10 cases would be among the vaccinated.

But 0 in 10 cases would be among the unvaccinated, so you would see that as vaccines being absolutely useless?

That's why you need to compare the incidence to a control group.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204086#Comment_118204086

In order to get a true picture, you would need to mandatory test everyone in the country on a given day.

You are still missing the point that the vast majority of vaccinated people with Covid are not coming forward for testing.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204028#Comment_118204028

You realise you've essentially just said ”f*ck them, whoever can't get treated in the hospitals deserves to die". You can stew on that for a bit and see if you can put it some other way (or deflect, always deflect).

charlie_says

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204043#Comment_118204043

Yeah the amount of flu anti vaxxers is insane.

Genocide of the elderly etc

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204099#Comment_118204099

Do you really think people who’ve already refused to get the vaccination against all logic and reason would somehow then be more willing than vaccinated people to get themselves tested if suffering from common symptoms? That’s really clutching at straws to find some excuse for the far greater percentage of cases among unvaccinated.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204111#Comment_118204111

You're putting words in my mouth there astrofool. I said f*ck the hospitals and especially I say it to the incompetents running them. I have never said that people "deserve to die".

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204118#Comment_118204118

If the hospitals are overrun, lots of people will die, you seem to want that to happen, it is utterly bizarre behavior.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204099#Comment_118204099

I believe those stats I posted where at a time when close contacts (despite being fully vaccinated) were still being tested.

You could also argue that with such a high R rate with Delta, it should be spreading rapidly though the unvaccinated people, meaning cases would be growing exponentially among unvaccinated people. But that's not happening as the number of unvaccinated in hospital and in ICU seems to be growing at the same rate as the vaccinated. (that's the vaccine protecting the unvacinated by reducing the spread)

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204121#Comment_118204121

Are you a teenager? Coming out with a response like that?

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204117#Comment_118204117

If unvaccinated are not getting tested, then where is the 40% of all positives coming from unvaccinated coming out of then? Geez the levels of critical thinking in this thread is through the floor. You will say anything for the "gotcha" moment literally without thought.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204122#Comment_118204122

Didn't Reid say the other day that while they're picking up ~4000 cases a day in testing they feel there is another ~10,000 cases out there. My hunch is that is where the covid but vaccinated is hiding out from the figures.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204131#Comment_118204131

It's been well accepted that the higher the positivity rate, the higher cases you miss (not just asymptomatic ones)

This was true even before vaccines came onboard.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118204099#Comment_118204099

There is one glaring statistic. About 7% of the population is unvaccinated. These are the people when they get infected are taking up over 60% of hospital beds and ICU beds compared to the 90+% of vaccinted people taking up abot 35% . So stop peddling misinformation.

When you consider that about 10% of people who are vaccinated due to deficenies in there immune system will not have full immunity from the vaccine you really see the issues with lies peddled by anti vaxers or my body my choice types. Other countries that have not got our vaccination levels are now having to make decisions about compulsory vaccination. If you do not get vaccinated why should society tolerate people taking up massive amounts of health resources. We are taxing tabbaco products because of the health issues it creates. Maybe we should tax those that are not willing to get vaccinated at a higher rates. Maybe we should remove some of there tax credits.

If you crash a car and are in the wrong it effects your car insurance. If you are unwilling to get vaccinated and are a risk to the health service you should have to pay for that risk profile.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203966#Comment_118203966

The vaccine protects others. If you get the vaccine you're less likely to transmit the virus to other people. Also, you're less likely to take up a hospital bed or ICU bed if you do get it. It's a no-brainer.