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Swashbuckler's Marathon Debut?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    A solid week although it didnt feel like it would be at the start of the week. Legs took a while to recover from the previous week. Slowly but surely they came back to me. Switched up my shoes a bit and retired the Pegasus 36. Not sure if that made the difference but helped mentally anyway.

    As the week went on I was much happier and by the end it was a decent week.

    Monday - Easy (6.6M, 54mins. Avg 8.07min/mile)

    Legs a little dead. Crappy sleep the night before....A very "meh" run. Questioning how I'll ever manage a marathon block.

    Tuesday - 8 x 4min off 2mins - Targeting ~threshold pace (6.00-6.10). (10.4M total. Avg 7.13min/mile)

    Continuing to build up the volume at threshold pace this was a progression on the previous 10x3mins.

    Was a little apprehensive heading out for this given the way the body felt on the Monday. Was pleasantly surprised. What a difference a decent nights sleep makes. Effort level was pretty spot on for this. I eased into it with the first rep coming in at 6.10 pace. Gradually got slightly quicker so the remaining ones were all between 5.57-6.09 pace. Wore the endorphin pro here. Definitely helps. Heart rate for the reps was in the region of where I'd expect it to be. All in all a good decent days work.

    Wednesday - Easy (52mins, 10k - Avg 8.14min/mile)

    Nothing major of note here. Took it handy. Felt like a recovery run. Avg HR was 126 which agrees with that theory. Legs a little heavy but not unusually so.

    Thursday - Easy (56mins, 7M - Avg 7.58min/mile)

    Recovered very well from the Tuesday. Legs felt good again. Tipping away and the miles passed by without much fuss. To be honest, by the end of the week I struggle to remember some of these easy runs.

    Friday - 2hrs easy, 15.2M - Avg 7:55

    I had noted previously I wanted to get a few more of these vanilla runs in ahead of starting the marathon block. This is my longest run in a while. I must say I really really enjoyed it. Took a nice route around limerick here taking in a section of UL too. I often wonder how other folks feel in the last few miles of these types of runs. I certainly dont feel fresh but not dead either. I presume it should feel like you've done a decent amount of work at the end of a 2hr run? Could have definitely managed a few miles more. I'm looking forward to getting a few of these long vanilla runs in the marathon block. The prospect of 17-20 milers is something new to me and exciting.

    Saturday - Easy - (45mins, 5.5M, Avg 8.15min/mile)

    Got out in the afternoon which was great. We had been in Elftown with the kids all morning so I was dreading the prospect of having to wait until late evening for this one. Thankfully a window of opportunity opened up earlier.

    Sunday - Easy (10k, 51mins - Avg 8.07min/mile)

    This run, on the otherhand, felt like it was gonna slip away from me. A day filled with entertaining and minding kids and babies. 8pm hit and I was contemplating skipping it.......Eventually got out at 8.30pm. Dragged myself out the door. Needed the mental reset above all else. Felt surprisingly good here.

    Total for the week: 57.1 miles

    Total time on feet: 7hrs 31mins (longest in a while)

    Total miles year to date: 2650 miles

    So all in all I'm happy with that week. Loved seeing all the Jingle Bells results and reports. We also had the Border Half marathon in these parts over the weekend so pretty much everyone I know was racing...........to say I was jealous is an understatement. Delighted for everyone but at the same time its tough to see everyone back out there and running pb's while i'm just ticking away...But my time will come no doubt....Half considering signing up for Mallow 10M in March which could be a decent test of where I'm at ahead of Limerick in May. I dont really see me getting any races in before the end of this year although I'd love to get a crack at getting the 5k pb back off AMK....Fecker has about 3 seconds on me there.

    Edit: I tell a lie. I went back and checked and my official 5k PB is actually 17.36. I think the 17.22 was in a TT. Ah well.......



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    I wouldn't get outa bed for 17.36



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Any 5k's between now and xmas I wonder? 😂

    Also, I meant to post earlier but anyone reading this log will you do me a favour and make sure to pop over to Oonegative's AR Awards log and get your votes in. It's a bit quiet around these parts lately but this is an age old tradition so please make the effort....And could you do me a second favour and post the same reminder in your own log updates this week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Good question up there about the end of longish runs. Personally I usually feel OK, could certainly do more but but definitely ready to be done. I enjoy long runs and try to vary the route to keep things interesting but towards the end you're always on very familiar territory so it can get a bit old! But yes, you should definitely feel like some work has been done, even if the pace has been easy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Cheers Murph. Thats actually a good way of putting it. Was just starting the fifteenth mile and thought yeah I could do more but I'm glad to be finishing. I'm not sure if the fact I typically do these with zero intake of liquids or food/gels makes a difference too. I expect not though as I'd say thats the case for most people.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Yeah I'd be tired near the end of a 2hr easy long run for sure. Also I experience mental fatigue approaching 2 hrs I fatigue fast, basically I get bored 😳 I don't vary my routes so that may be part of the problem, I'm quite limited locally and with time constraints it's just easier to stay local so I'm pretty much running the same roads all week. With a bit of stuff thrown into a long run I find it much easier to stay alert & focussed. And yeah I think it's pretty normal not to take on fuel for an easy LR. I did 2hr 10min vanilla yesterday on an empty stomach. I'd eat before (and possibly during) a run if it had 'stuff' in it but these easy longs run, it's out of bed and out of the house as quickly and quietly as possible to avoid getting cornered by an early rising 6 year old kid wanting me to do a million little things for him including at least 10 goodbye hugs before I go 🤨



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Long slow runs certainly have their place, my views on them have changed over the years.

    In a marathon block - I'd only really do a vanilla long run if its a down week of if it is preceded by a workout the day before - so you are running on tired legs.

    For where you are - its probably the perfect thing to do and build upto it, but be careful that you dont add 4-5 weeks of 'inadvertant' marathon training in advance of starting your block - that only goes 1 way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler



    That's actually been something I was meaning to ask you. It had been an open question in my head - best way to prep for the marathon block. I know im not coming from a zero base and I have several years of all sorts of sessions under my belt. Some of the training of late has felt like marathon type stuff.....Some bigger threshold sessions. Some longer vanilla runs albeit nothing more than 15M. I'm now really only doing two big runs a week. The past few weeks have been one "big" session midweek and then a longer session/longer vanilla later in the week. The rest of the runs have been easy. In your own opinion is it better to freshen up with some reduced volume and speedier stuff or to start building up to the bigger type sessions?

    p.s. I have asked this question of others too but interested to hear your own opinion. I dont want to inadvertently turn a 17 week marathon block into a 21 week one!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    Nice to see things coming along here, P


    I tend to find the 2+ hour long runs, especially the easy paced ones a bit of a drain towards the end. I suspect its a combination of fueling and mental fatigue but can't be sure obviously - it shouldn't surprise me really, 14\15 miles is not a short run. Right now, I'm starting back into that weekly 2 hour run routine and haven't particularly enjoyed either of the last 2 really (although, they haven't been awful either)

    But - I ran A LOT of them over the summer months and got to the stage where they just felt effortless, 2 hours, 2.20, 2.30 - whatever....(we'll ignore the fact that I never put them to good use!), so I've no doubt you'll get to that stage.

    I wouldn't underestimate the benefit of those runs either, they really are the cornerstone of building towards a marathon block and\or the meatier sessions that you are planning.


    Interesting to watch Jerry Kiernan's (RIP) group train for marathons - week in, week out, they plod around at a conversational pace on their long runs - while banging out some really tough midweek marathon paced tempos. Chatting to one of the group that I know pretty well there and he tells me that he really found them tough for the first few months, boring, tired at the end, a bit achey on the legs but over time they just become something that he simply never misses.


    Enjoying reading the log at the moment, keep up the good, honest work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    I’ve just caught up with your log here from the start. You’re in a great place, keeping variety of distances and speeds is ideal for the marathon. There’s no reason not to aim for 2:5x in a debut. You’ve got such structure already that preparation will not be an issue.

    The only suggestion I’d offer is that you allow yourself to be flexible. If you’re struggling a little, catch a cold, are exhausted due to young kids, etc, don’t feel like you have to stick rigidly to your goal. It’s a long long way from now to June, making the wrong decisions could mean losing a month instead of a week. The base of years of good training is there. Looking forward to seeing how this goes over the coming months.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭E.coli


    Like PP I am playing catch up here.

    I knew the seeds had been sown for this the past 18 months, was only a matter of time. Definitely think you are in a great place going into your marathon debut. I know the long runs are somewhat new but don't underestimate those week in and week out +1hr40 min runs with decent mileage they will hugely stand to you in making a smooth transition.

    As for the vanilla long runs, definitely something you need to get used to as Duanington said above. To this day I still find them a bit more draining than a long run session personally I think it's the mono-pace that means you are not engaged and ultimately wears you down mentally as the fueling creeps up on you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    You jinxed me. I caught a dose of the healyvirus which is much much worse than manflu...😂

    All joking aside I actually had to skip a run due to sickness...I dont think thats happened since 2019.

    Cheers for the words of encouragement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    In the 20 years I've been working with kids, i don't think I've ever escaped a bad dose at least once a year. Didn't really bother me until I started running! I just accept it now and hope it doesn't coincide with races.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    In the four years since I started having kids I've never been sick so many times . Literally I reckon I've had more doses in the past four years than the 36 years prior. Feckin kids



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Great to see you back running and posting especially in this log!

    As you know better than most, the biggest worry for me is balancing it all but I've probably become better at judging that since the early days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Cheers D.

    Yeah I think the term Easy 15M has always confused me a bit...made me thing it should feel easy but how can anyone feel great after 15M. It's reassuring to know others feeling the same way as me. I won't doubt myself in future....Added to the fact most of my long runs have been on empty which is an added factor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    So much of that post resonated with me...lol...the same routes, the kids...Ninja'ing out the door



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Things were shuffled around a little this week for various reasons but still managed to get a decent week in with two good sessions.

    Monday - Session - 2x2M at 6.10min/mile (4mins between each)/4x2min "Hard" off 90s (Total 10.5M, 75mins. Avg 7.08min/mile)

    I had originally planned this for Tuesday but shifted it back a day with Barra on the way. I had it in my mind that I wanted to get some tempo/HM paced work followed by speedier/5k effort stuff on tired legs...I chose this from my collection of sessions. It's a tough enough session, especially when contending with the breezy conditions but I executed it well. The effort level felt about right on the tempo sections. 12.11 and 12.13 for the 2x2M. 4mins is plenty of recovery. For the 5k efforts they were all in the range of 5.34-5.38min/mile. Was happy with my days work.

    Tuesday - Easy (5.75M, 47mins. Avg 8.14min/mile)

    Got a look from my wife when I suggested I was heading out for a run. She's a worrier! To be fair all signs were that the storm wasnt due to hit til the afternoon and , while blustery, it wasnt too bad out. Just to be on the safe side I kept it to loops around my estate (~1.8M). This was grand..Hard to read too much into heart rate or anything like that when sections of the run were against a solid headwind.

    Wednesday - Easy (7.5M, 60mins. Avg 8.00min/mile)

    Cold. The tights made an appearance. Could hear groans of despair coming from the Netherlands.

    Thursday - Rest

    Was all set for a session. Woke during the night with a rasper of a sore throat and blocked nose. One of the million doses that has entered the house since September. Negative antigen and no surprise really. My daughter literally brings home every dose going. Wisely thought better than heading out for a run although it took some internal convincing in my mind. Stubborn bunch, us runners.

    Friday - Session - 10mins WU/1hr Steady/10mins CD (Total 11.3M, 80mins. Avg 7.05min/mile)

    Felt somewhat better on Friday. Another days rest probably would have been the wise thing to do but - runners, stubborn etc. Decided to head out for an easy mile and take it from there. I had it in my head that I wanted to run some steady miles. Limited it to one hour although I'd have preferred 70 or 80mins. Surprisingly I felt good on this . Most of the miles averaged around 6.50 with a few slightly lower (6.45). Slowest was 6.58. Could have done more but was caught a little for time. Pleased with the effort. The miles ticked by nicely.....I should note the playlists have been great this week. Delved deeper into Lainey's playlist. Super stuff especially for that type of run.

    Saturday - Easy (6.3M, 49mins. Avg 7.48min/mile)

    Legs felt perfect. Still a bit snuffly nosed. GPS was way off - they werent sub 8min miles. Was delighted to get out in the afternoon here after a busy morning with the kids.

    Sunday - Easy with Strides (8M, 65mins. Avg 8.06min/mile)

    GPS seemed to go haywire a few times on this run too. Enjoyed this. Legs felt good and strides were nice and bouncy despite the wine the night before.

    So a decent week considering a storm and a headcold. Mileage a little lower than i'd like but you gotta roll with these things. Would like to get two sessions and a long run in this week but we'll see if life allows it.

    Entering silly season now so alcohol and food consumption will be on the rise no doubt.

    Total for the week: 49.3 miles

    Total time on feet: 6hrs 15mins

    Total miles year to date: 2700 miles (hoping to hit the 2800 mark by the end of the year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭scotindublin


    Another solid week; like you said silly season is coming but we have to enjoy ourselves aswell.

    Plenty of time to knuckle down in Jan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Headcold ➡️ Flu ➡️ ManFlu ➡️ HealyFlu ➡️ Covid



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Another solid week there P, glad to hear you are still enjoying the playlist😊



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I think I’m blocked from these logs for some reason but I’ve just found this one and it’s an absolute gem so far, just skimmed it but lovin the detail.

    I think you’re gonna absolutely smash the sub3. Your training at the moment is fantastic! Really inspiring reading through the various comments I’ll be following this with keen interest.

    good luck with everything and enjoy the journey. I’m really rootin for ya!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    That's very kind. Thank you!

    Glad you're enjoying the log. To be fair its moreso the engagement thats interesting rather than the logging itself!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I love reading the numbers. You’re a very talented runner and Im sure it will translate itself into the big one. For my money you’re approaching it perfectly and sensibly.

    The engagement is brilliant too so both for me! Making me half consider logging my own next steps.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    We always welcome fresh logs on here. Get logging!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭coogy


    Sorry to be late to the party but I've been on a self-imposed exile from Boardsville for a while. Will play catch up here as soon as I can!

    I also have my eye on Limerick 2022 but with my daughter's confirmation taking place end of April/beginning of May and with no confirmed date (could be announced at the 11th hour), it's hard to know what to do.

    Regardless, will be following this log with interest!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    SB and lads, I know this isn’t the platform to be asking this but it’s only one question. On the Jack Daniels plan… I’ve never seen it or got the books. I remember very vaguely discussing it with some of you guys who are in the know possibly on the Sub3 thread. I just took a quick look online and there are a few versions of it. Which one is the one for me to get? I think I could read it over the holidays and then decide if I wanna go with it or Advanced Marathoning or something in the middle. Maybe that will be the basis for my own log… if I get round to doing one! Thanks all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing



    The Marathon plans are different from V2 to V3 - So I'd be advising to get V3 or V4.

    V4 not much different from V3 and I believe the Marathon plans are unchanged - just added an ultra section apparently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    Never any issues with asking questions unrelated to my training here. Often there isnt really a place for some of these questions and where better to ask Daniels question than in a log from someone training to a Daniels plan!

    Just to add to what AMK said, maybe you've seen this before, but this is an interesting little link comparing plans and ranking them in terms of who they may or may not suit. It's actually what pointed me in the direction of the 2Q Daniels plan;

    https://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans



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  • Registered Users Posts: 718 ✭✭✭MisterJinx


    First time posting on your log, hi there! Been enjoying it so far and looking forward to seeing your progress. I've review that fellrnr webpage before and it's very useful, will be using it to select my marathon plan for next year :-)



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