Swashbuckler's Marathon Debut?

Laineyfrecks

Almost there P😁 Another great week especially with everything else going on! It's great to be able to enjoy our running whilst balancing a happy family life. Glad you enjoyed the 80's playlist, it's my go to at the moment! I'm with you on the Speeds, amazing runners. If I could have only one pair to train in for everything they would be the ones I'd choose. I am up to almost 600 miles on mine & there is no noticeable wear on them & they still feel really good. I might throw a few hints in for my birthday for a new pair😜

Duanington

Well done, P - consistently hitting miles and targets .

That 5x3 min sesh is a bit of a pig at this stage, a lot of people struggle with that because of the fatigue that has built up over the course of the plan, fair play to you. I wouldn't even spare a thought for the slightly longer 8 mile build up to it in the previous one, that was a different stage of the plan and there's been a lot of water under the bridge till then

You can take great confidence now, not just from that session but from the week in, week out nature of your training

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925130#Comment_118925130

Funny you should say that! I was looking at my collection on Garmin this week and to be honest I'm pretty well set. But I was debating with myself if I was to buy again what would I buy (apart from maybe a mega deal on Next%). It would probably be a 5k/10k session shoe and the only one I can think of that I would want to try over the Speeds is maybe one of the Asics offering like the magic speed. But I'm ok for now, and I need to stop looking!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925251#Comment_118925251

Cheers D. To be honest I've surprised myself with how I've adapted. Weeks 2 and 3 seem a long time ago where I was thinking I'm really struggling here. It's been a good learning experience in that sense and very different to what I'm used to. I'm mentally conditioned to train for the shorter stuff, consistent weeks but always running within myself - each session being a 7 or 8 max in terms of effort. But the marathon plan (rightly so) has pushed me out of that comfort zone. I'll take that learning into future blocks for sure - that it is indeed normal. Understandably, the training load for running 26.2 miles has been heavier than racing a 10k. Only two more big sessions left. A biggie today - 14 miles of marathon pace broken up by one easy mile.

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 16 – (14-Apr to 20-Apr)

Week 16 in the bag and we are officially tapering!!!

Thursday, Apr 14th

Plan: 1E/8M/1E/6M/1E

Actual: 1E/8M/1E/6M/1E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Pro

I really have enjoyed the marathon paced sessions on the plan. This was to be the last of the big marathon paced sessions and in all honestly it couldnt have really gone better. Mix bag weather wise with some torrential downpours at mile 7 of the marathon paced 8 miles. The first 7 or 8 miles had been nice and smooth - a notable improvement on similar session from earlier in the lan with effort levels a little lower this time. The second batch of marathon paced miles was a little tougher but certainly manageable. Kept the marathon pace sensible. Not forcing anything, The goal pace remains the same for the big day. Tired legs by the end but a very satisfying days work. No gels. Just a little water planted. Some nice sections of Raheen with some lumps and bumps. Heart rate data looked good for this.

1E: 8.30

8M: 6.48/6.45/6.45/6.50/6.46/6.43/6.45/6.52

1E: 8.10

6M: 6.48/6.50/6.47/6.48/6.56/6.39

1E: 7.52

Total: 17 miles, 1hr 59mins, 7.00min/mile average overall.

Friday, April 15th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5 miles , 42mins, 8.24min/mile

Legs were a little heavy today. Kept it handy.

Saturday, April 16th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest

Sunday, April 17th 

Plan: 1E/3x2T off 2mins/60mins Easy

Actual: 1E/3x2T off 2mins/60mins Easy

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Pro

The last of the big threshold sessions - moved this from Monday to Sunday to start lining everything up with race day. Got out early in the day thankfully. Weather was all over the place. I kept most of the threshold stuff on the flat for this one. At this stage I feel like I've done most of the honest hard work and wanted to see what threshold felt like on flat. It was very controlled. 3 x 2 miles of threshold isnt as daunting with only 1 mile easy before it. The 60mins easy afterwards is fine too. Certainly feel it in the legs by the end. All part of the Daniels conditioning. It all makes sense now 😂.

1E: 8.06

2T: 6.12/6.11

2T: 6.09/6.13

2T: 6.11/6.10

60mins Easy: 8.12/8.11/8.08/8.08/8.11/8.15/8.10/3.37

Monday, April 18th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5M, 41.20, 8.15min/mile average

Systems check - body good, legs good. Sleep wasnt great but still, generally all good.

Tuesday, April 19th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 10k, 51mins, 8.12min/mile average

Destroyed by rain and hammered by hailstones. But legs were good.

Wednesday, April 20th

Plan: 4E/1T/2M/1E/1T/2M/2E

Actual: 4E/1T/2M/1E/1T/2M/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Pro - these shoes proved popular with me this week.

The last of the main sessions - even this one alone is a bit watered down and had a tapery feel to it.

Got some lovely loops of Raheen in here incorporating the tricky part of Raheen with the lumps up to Churchill Meadowns and by the Forts. Threshold bits were on the flat in the Industrial Estate. Really enjoyed this one. Nice and leggy at the end but well controlled albeit pushed the effort a bit today. Very warm. Happy with this one and looking forward to tapering.

4E: 8.02/7.51/8.04/7.59

1T: 6.01

2M: 6.44/6.44

1E: 7.51

1T: 6.05

2M: 6.42/6.39

2E: 8.00/7.43

Total: 13.1 miles, 1hr35mins, 7.16min/mile average

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 54

Actual mileage for the week: 61 (pulled in Thursdays session to Wednesday which has me lined up perfectly for tapering to the race)

Time on feet: 7hrs 41mins

Miles in the block to date: 904

Number of MP miles: 91

Number of Threshold miles: 69

Comments

• Well that's the worst of it done and dusted. Nothing but easy miles and a tuneup session left now. Looking forward to the maranoia setting in.
• I'm gonna post a summary of the block, the plan, the learnings etc next week. Want to get this in before race day and then re-visit once I have the experience of the race in my pocket (be that good or bad).

Taper;

Thursday 21st: Easy 5M

Friday 22nd: Easy 10k

Saturday 23rd: Rest

Sunday 24th: Easy 90mins

Monday 25th: Easy 60mins

Tuesday 26th: 2E/3 x 1T off 2mins/2E (+ Toenails)

Wednesday 27th: Easy 50mins

Thursday 28th: 30-40mins

Friday 29th: 0-20mins (likely I'll rest and get the ol' haircut)

Saturday 30th: 20-30mins

Sunday 1st: Race Day

Will likely take the lesser of the prescribed time in the last few days and will probably throw in a few strides here and there to keep the legs awake.

By the time the block is done I should end up around;

Total miles in the block (not including the race): 950

Total number of MP miles: 91 (~10% of the total plan mileage)

Total number of Threshold miles: 72 (~8% of the total plan mileage)

deconduo

Brilliant stuff - that's the hard work done. Good luck in Limerick!

I did most of my Q sessions in the Endorphin Pros as well, awesome shoes.

AuldManKing

A great block - text book stuff so far.

Not long to go - you cannot gain any more fitness between now & race day. None.

But you can Fcuk it up - but you won't 'cos your execution and discipline are off the charts.

squinn2912

I’ve really enjoyed reading this programme. Love the attention to detail, the positivity and the willingness to discuss various points. Try to enjoy taper week - you’ve really earned it.

Lambay island

Well done- smashing block!

Laineyfrecks

Have loved following your journey P, your detail has been top notch. You have executed the plan brilliantly & I have no doubt you will do great. I genuinely am so excited for you(also a bit jealous)😁 you will only ever run your 1st marathon once, enjoy it, soak up the atmosphere & the sheer sense of achievement crossing that line in your home town!!

Enjoy the taper!

diego_b

Enjoy the taper time, not too long now and don't forget about the toenails...caution advised to take the time to do them right as they can scupper things. Been a great training block and hope you get the great race you've worked hard for off the back of it.

And for a call back to an earlier discussion, did you settle on a pair of shoes for the race?

Swashbuckler

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956835#Comment_118956835

Haha. Next% for the big day. Alphafly will be saved for another day, preferably a half marathon where I can get some faith in them over distance.

Swashbuckler

The Penultimate Chapter

I wanted to take the time to put together a summary of the past several months in the build-up to my first marathon – some of it is for me to reflect and learn, but also for anyone who might learn from this now, or in the future. I’m also writing this now as there are things I want to get down on paper that I don’t want biased by the race result. For sure though, I will also have reflections post race that might contradict what I think now. Apologies - it’s a mega essay.

The Plan

As everyone knows at this stage it was the Daniels 2Q 41-55 mile plan but with my peak mileage adjusted so in essence it was a 48-60 mile plan. In reality only the first couple of weeks of the plan are spent at 48 miles with all other weeks either 54 or 60 miles. The next plan up is the 56-70 mile plan which I felt was a bridge too far for me – 70 miles peak would be pushing it.

Another key point is Daniels recommends you start the plan at a pace slower than your current fitness (based on VDOT) and over the plan these paces are expected to get faster.

Each week has 2 big sessions. Here’s a breakdown of how those sessions are set-up. There are essentially five types;

·      Marathon paced sessions – these build over the plan (starting out at less miles with easy miles breaking them up e.g. 2E/8M/1E/2M/2E and building to 2E/14M/2E at peak.

·      Threshold with lots of easy miles in the middle e.g. 1E/2x2T/60mins Easy/1T/2E

·      Threshold with lots of easy miles at the start e.g. 60mins Easy/3x2T/2E

·      5k paced interval sessions all of which have a lot of easy miles before the faster stuff e.g. 8E/5x3mins at 5k effort/6x1mins at mile effort/2E.

·      Vanilla long runs

There is somewhat of a pattern to how these are placed in the plan. There is a vanilla long every three weeks. There’s a 5k interval session every other three weeks. There’s a marathon paced session every other three weeks. That’s the general structure – that being said there are some extra MP sessions scattered about in places. There’s a lot of threshold stuff – it features throughout. All the sessions are progressed as the plan progresses and become more demanding as the plan goes on whether that be more easy miles added to the threshold stuff, or more threshold volume, or more uninterrupted marathon paced sessions or longer vanilla runs.

My Learnings

·      This plan needs you to have a very solid base coming into it. It’s very demanding. Once I got over the 3-4 week hump and adjusted I found it demanding but more manageable. There were times in the first few weeks where I felt I might need to quit the plan. Thankfully I stuck with it. Do not do this plan if you are a beginner runner, or someone who is very prone to injury and poor at judging how the body feels. You need to know when to back off on this plan. I needed some help on that front from Boardsies advising me what’s normal and what’s not. All the above said, if you have experience of what a marathon block feels like then that will stand to someone doing this plan.

·      As the plan has progressed I have felt the strength building. I’m far more adept at running 17/18/19 mile sessions now. This plan will make you stronger for sure. Strong enough to run 26.2 miles at target pace? We’ll find out Sunday although success is reliant on more than just the plan itself.

·      Paces have come more easily as the plan progressed. I have let the threshold paces come down a bit compared to earlier in the plan. Generally I haven’t pushed the marathon paces. So in that sense I haven’t followed Daniels advice of increasing the paces as the plan progresses. This is solely down to the fact I’m treating this first marathon as a learning process. I don’t want to try and squeeze every last second of my best time out of it. I plan on doing that for future marathons but with a much better knowledge of how a marathon block of training and a marathon race actually feels.

·      My pre marathon block 10k time would suggest a much faster threshold/marathon pace by now. I don’t feel like that has been the case for me. I feel like at this stage my threshold pace is where it was pre block but I’m capable of handling much greater volume and on fatigued legs. I’m not sure if this even makes sense in my own head to be honest. My expectation was always that I would get faster as the plan progressed but I feel like I’ve got stronger but at the same paces. For example, based on my 10k time I should be running 6.25 marathon pace by now. That’s simply not the case.

·      I didn’t particularly enjoy the 5k interval sessions but I understand why they are structured the way they are. I have been conditioned throughout this plan to run fast on tired legs.

·      I loved the marathon paced sessions – the highlight of the plan for me. They were plentiful and challenging. Heavy going though. 12 or 14 miles straight at marathon pace is no joke. It was really solid advice to take these out on to lumpier routes. I feel that helped a lot.

·      The threshold sessions got more manageable as the plan progressed. Still threshold effort but what was a big struggle on week 1 or 2 became far less daunting as the plan progressed. That’s what I like about this plan. It conditions you physically and mentally. Big runs become less daunting – that can only be a good thing on the day – surely? 😉. Again, it was really solid advice to take these out on to lumpier routes.

·      Apart from a couple of them, I found the vanilla long runs a bit of a slog. That being said, I ran farther than my plan prescribes. Company would have helped here. Thank god for Boardsie’s Spotify playlists.

·      One gauge that I have used to monitor improvement is my recovery runs. At the beginning of the plan I felt like I was constantly using the term “leggy”. Deep into the plan the recovery runs are far less leggy – much fresher – although I have still kept the paces slow on those recovery days.

·      I feel like this plan has prepared me well, both physically and mentally – lots and lot of running on tired legs, big sessions. Hopefully that turns out to be the case. Either way – huge learnings for the next marathon block whenever that may be.

·      I purposely avoided racing and I’m glad I did. That opinion may change post marathon but for now I’m glad I just “stuck with the plan”. I wouldn’t rule out racing in future plans though.

·      It really helps to have the guidance of more experienced runners. I would encourage anyone a little less experienced (or even someone experienced) to reach out to folks so you have a direct network to bounce ideas/questions/thoughts off. There are at least five Boardies that I have messaged throughout this block and several more in my log who have guided me through this. I honestly would have struggled without that help. Thanks everyone.

·      I more or less executed the plan as prescribed. No injuries picked up. Two missed sessions (precautionary). Some minor reshuffling here and there due to life. Some minor tweaks to three sessions as I was listening to the body and didn’t force things.

·      Would I do a Daniels plan again – it’s a solid maybe!

·      Winter marathon training is tough but having a big goal race helps on those crappy nights.

·      Solo marathon training is tough.

·      Sleep has been ok. It certainly improved from December but still up at 4-5am most nights.

·      Work stress has been ok. Manageable.

·      Diet has been very hit and miss. Probably my one big regret on the plan. I haven’t shaken the bad habits picked up during the pandemic. Certainly, the good intake has improved but the bad intake is just as bad as always. Easter didn’t help! Poor discipline on that front.

·      I’m under no illusions that this block is simply the icing on the cake to what has gone before. And what has gone before is several years of really really good, consistent training – 90% of which is all thanks to Luke and his coaching. Regardless of the result from the day itself I can’t thank that lad enough. I will always be thankful to him for what he has given me. I don’t think he realises how much more it is than just handing over a training plan – being coached by a really good coach makes running easier which in turn makes life easier – happy runner, happy dad, happy husband – it all filters down. Thanks Luke. You have given so much to me and tonnes of other Boardsies – you shouldn’t let that get lost in the high standards you set for yourself and what you think you should be giving to others. I wanted to say this now rather than after the marathon because even if I blow up at mile 20 and go home in pieces, the above won’t change.

The Race

·      Strategy is to go out handy – I don’t want the first three miles to be faster than 6.50min/mile average.

·      I’ve ditched the thoughts of planning splits and all that. I’ll have an idea of where I would like to be at after 10/13.1/20 miles but not rigidly sticking to that. I’m hoping I can just get into a smooth flow where the miles are ticking by and I’m not stalking the watch all the time. Assuming all going well on the day I’d like to go through halfway somewhere around 1.29. The last 10k is not the worst (apart from the hill at mile 24). It’s the type of last 10k where you can push on or steady the ship if necessary. I’ll be trying to enter the last 10k in someway decent shape.

·      Get into a group if possible but keep in mind I want to run my own race so hold back if they are pushing on when I don’t feel I want to.

·      I don’t think I’ll set myself up beside a pacer – maybe the back of the pace group or something. That could all change with blind panic on the day. I’d rather enter my own mental zone on the day rather than thinking about what the pacers are doing, especially early on.

·      Bringing 5 gels with a plan to take one every 30mins. Buddy of mine will have a couple of energy drinks and a couple of diuralyte. I may or may not use them. Will probably use one after 20 miles for sure.

·      Adapt all the above depending on what’s thrown at me on the day. “Everyone has plans ‘til they get punched in the mouth.”

·      Long term weather looks ok so far – cloudy, no wind and some showers – 11-14 degrees. I genuinely can’t wait to get out there. I don’t know for sure how it will all go. I know what I have envisioned but I’m also not stupid. Better runners than me have felt great in training and had off days on the big day. We’ll see. Either way its been such a great experience in training. I’ll be a better runner for it. I feel prepared, and excited.

 I have attached my plan, plan vs actual and some other useful tabs for anyone who's interested now, or in the future.

SB_Great Limerick Marathon 2022_Boards.xlsx

AuldManKing

That's a super synopsis. This is a post that will get referenced again and again. Well put together.

Only 2 things to add for race day - no doubt you'll get more as you go along.

(1) Dont wait til mile 20 for diuralyte or some kind of electrolyte.

(2) Break the course into sections - it'll help you mentally. "only 2 miles til xx" / "Only 3 miles to xx" rather than "20 miles left".

Cleanman

Epic...great summary and really appreciate you sharing...even if I personally will never do a marathon and have no idea how hard it actually is, it's a really good insight into what is involved. Best of luck, preparation has been A1, time to go out and enjoy it.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118974067#Comment_118974067

Never say never!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118973462#Comment_118973462

Nice one A. Thanks.

In relation to breaking it up yeah I kinda have it broken up into territory - Town/Casteltroy/Town/Raheen/Town/"My side". And even in some places I have it sub broken up. My side is 2miles of North circular, two miles ennis road, the final stretch. I've utilised the "break it down" strategy a lot before so I think it'll stand to me on the day.

Interesting one about the electrolyte drink. I had planned on taking on Lucozade at two stations (not an electrolyte drink). Maurten is something I think i'll only turn to in an emergency...Might have to reconsider the electrolyte strategy then. Thanks.

Wottle

+3, super read! I've followed you every step of the way via this log as haven't a clue if you're on Strava?

The work is done, you've a pretty good balance on everything, wishing you all the best on the day!

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118974580#Comment_118974580

Cheers Wottle. Yeah I'm on Strava but I don't necessarily have everything on there.

https://www.strava.com/athletes/22966620

Wubble Wubble

Great post P. I reckon this is going to be one of the most eagerly awaited race reports on modern day Boards !

The very best of luck with it, the training has been top class, and hopefully you'll get the result it deserves.

racersedge

Best of luck! Like many, awaiting to see how it all shapes out and hopefully after the training have put in, you get what you deserve. From a purely selfish point of view, I’ve really enjoyed your breakdown of how the plan itself went as I’m already in deep conversation with myself about how to approach Dublin. Reading the first-hand experience has been fascinating.

For the day, while you have your aims and target, try to enjoy it. No matter what happens on the day, it will be a PB time. Something I had on my list of objectives for Manchester was to enjoy the experience and finish happy. Unlike a 5K or a 10K, you can’t just go out next week and right a poor run when it comes to the marathon distance. It’s the one thing I look back on my first marathon (and second… and third) was that my failings in them led to me not to enjoy it, to a point it took months before I considered the distance again. So yeah, enjoy it. Come home happy. Come home proud. You have done the hard work, putting in an incredible training program. Just bring her home now with a smile on your face!

Dubh Geannain

Great stuff. Impeccable discipline.

As someone said already, be sure to celebrate crossing that start line.

Best of luck.

Sunny Dayz

The very best of luck in your marathon. Well done on all the hard work you have put in over the last few months, you've come across very focussed and determined. Here's hoping you get the run you deserve after that. Enjoy your day!!

squinn2912

To echo a lot of the sentiment here this has been a fantastic log. It’s the one that convinced me to make my own. Just out of curiosity what is your 10k time that led you to calculate 6:25s as MP potential pace?

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975621#Comment_118975621

Haha no pressure then. Cheers lad.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976025#Comment_118976025

Yeah people keep saying that to me . I think I'll probably understand a little better after the race what "enjoy yourself" means. I dont see me accepting my fate and crossing the line in 3hrs 30mins high fiving people along the way but we'll see.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976656#Comment_118976656

Yeah it's probably at the forefront of my mind this week. Irish people tend not to give themselves too much credit but I am proud of the fact I seem to have made it this far. Touch wood nothing bad happens in the next 5 days.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977942#Comment_118977942

Thank you very much! Very kind.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118979528#Comment_118979528

I ran Banna last August in 36.22 on a tough day (tough last 3k) so according to that 10k time, it equates to a theoretical marathon pace of 6.25......The reality is much different though. That's a big learning for me on this block. I now truly appreciate the difference between a 5k/10k time and a theoretical marathon time The two , generally, dont marry up for "newbies" I think. I reckon i'd need a number of marathon blocks in my legs to start seeing them come closer together.

squinn2912

Thanks lad. My own time is pretty similar (from a while back though) so I was interested to know and collect a bit more information on what I might be fit to hold on marathon day. Like yourself though I’m living more in reality than fantasy at the moment!

Train in Vain

Long-term lurker, first-time commenter. I’ve enjoyed reading about your training so much. My very best wishes to you in your marathon. Enjoy the run past the Gaelic grounds. Take care.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980381#Comment_118980381

Thank you! I'm happy to have drawn out a lurker. Glad you have enjoyed the log. I've got a lot from it myself.

Laineyfrecks

Not much more to be said really P, has been a pleasure to follow your journey, have enjoyed each & every update.

I really do wish you all the very best in your running your 1st marathon.

Here's a little quote I found which I think is so true...

"The marathon is not really about the marathon, it's about the shared struggle. And it's not only the marathon but the training"

diego_b

Log of year will be an easy one this year, hard luck to all the other competitors. Genuinely hope you get the reward/performance from the effort you've put into the training and the logging/discussion around it. You've helped to generate discussions that I'm sure many of us will benefit from now and into the future. Remember to celebrate crossing the start and go nail it.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982498#Comment_118982498

Cheers E. That quote sums it all up nicely - would have been lost without the Boards crew.

Thanks for the playlists - you have no idea how much they helped!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983172#Comment_118983172

Haha cheers lad. Not sure about log of the year. This log will probably finish in May - will probably include my post marathon recovery and then possibly set-up a new log. I dont think a Summer of 5k/10k stuff belongs in "Swashbucklers Marathon Debut?". haha

Cheers for the support and advice along the way.

ReeReeG

Very best of luck on Sunday, your training has been a great follow and so disciplined. I really hope you get the run the work deserves! Enjoy the day 😃