Swashbuckler's Marathon Debut?

ThebitterLemon

Flying it P 👏👏👏

TbL

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 7 – (10-Feb to 16-Feb)

Entering week 7 and the guidance from Daniels is to move up a VDOT and therefore increase the intensities of the paces. I decided to take that as an option rather than a rule. If I spend the rest of the plan at the same paces as week one then so be it. I think this plan is aggressive enough in its content to get me to the finish line with a decent time and I'm not particularly interested in chasing the fastest possible time I'm capable of. So in summary if MP feels like 6.52 on a given night then thats what it'll be. I don't want to force anything as I feel like I've settled into this block nicely now. The next phase of the block shows a ramp up in the volume/content anyway so no harm being a little conservative with pacing.

Also, this was the first of the peak mileage weeks on the plan - 60 miles target.

Thursday, Feb 10th

Plan: 2E/6M/1E/6M/1E

Actual: 2E/6M/1E/6M/1E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Pro

In my mind this looked like a biggie. It was one I was looking forward to. Maybe its just me but there's something very "exciting" about running marathon paced sessions in a marathon block. I'm not sure why - I guess it's as close as you get to feel what the pace might feel like on the big day itself.

The weather for this one was a real mixed bag. I literally had wind, hailstones, sunshine and heat. Impossible to dress for. The sn came out at one stage and I was regretting the rain jacket as it felt like a sauna. Then it was freezing again ten mins later. So a lot to contend with. I also decided to be a little more adventurous with the route and headed into North Circular for a few of the miles (part of the GLR route). The first 6 miles went by without much drama. Going by feel more than anything. It's hard to picture how marathon pace should feel when you are mid-block and you've never run a marathon before. I'm guessing this is where experience benefits the seasoned marathoners.

The second 6 mile block was tougher but interestingly my paces were a little quicker than the first set. I really had to concentrate for the last mile or two and I certainly felt it in the legs. All in all a really really solid session and one I was very happy with.

2E: 7.53/7.57

6M:6.50/6.49/6.52/6.49/6.48/6.50 (was pleased to see the consistency here after)

1E: 8.00

6M: 6.34/6.48/6.44/6.49/6.44/6.38

1.5E: 7.55/8.01

Total: 16.5 miles, 1hr57mins, 7.06min/mile average

Friday, Feb 11th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 6 miles, 50mins, 8.21min/mile

Legs were pretty tired so I wore the Fuelcell TC to help aid the recovery. This run felt a lot slower so I was surprised to see the average pace afterwards.

Saturday, Feb 12th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Now technically this wasn't planned as a rest day - given it was peak mileage week I felt like I'd probably need to run today but when the missus asked if she could meet up with a friend for lunch I didnt have the heart balls to remind her I planned on running that day. So it was another solo parenting effort with the kids followed by rugby. Friends over, missus home and far too much wine and Guinness consumed by me...To say I was ropey Sunday was an understatement.

Sunday, Feb 13th 

Plan: Easy plus strides

Actual: Easy 8 miles, 65mins, 8.06mins/mile avg

Went shockingly well considering the antics the night before. Cant afford too much of that skullduggery between now and May. The Saturday night debauchery usually carries itself over to Monday in the form of dehydration on general tiredness. Skipped the strides.

Monday, Feb 14th

Plan: 6E/3T/3minE/2T/2minE/1T/2E (emboldened in the plan so open to skip or change)

Actual: 6E/6x1T off 1mins/2E (changed but only coz I was a dumbass on Saturday nght)

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Speed

To be fair I handled this session quite well considering the general feeling of tiredness and dehydration. Poor prep so I dont want to repeat this too many times over the block. Need to do more than just tick the boxes on the plan. Again I headed in towards North Circular for some of these miles. A good session.

6E: 8.01/7.52/8.03/7.59/8.13/8.04

6T: 6.09/6.12/6.18/6.11/6.15/6.11

2E: 8.34/8.09

Total: 14.9 miles, 1hr50mins, 7.24min/mile average

Tuesday, Feb 8th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 6M, 50mins, 8.05min/mile average

GPS all over the place so just went on total time - the watch recorded and extra 400m which I'm not counting. Bad night sleep that night with baby waking at 4am.

Wednesday, Feb 9th

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 8.75 miles incl. 6x20s strides, 64mins, 8.23avg

Tired due to poor sleep but got this done and felt pretty good. The actual miles were quicker than the average pace suggests which is pulled down due to the walk recoveries on the strides. Another bad sleep with baby waking at 4am - seems like we're in a sleep regression.

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 60

Actual mileage for the week: A shade over 60

Time on feet: 7hrs 36mins

Miles in the block to date: 378.8

Number of MP miles: 29

Number of Threshold miles: 37

Comments

• Solid week again despite the shenanigans which I wont be too hard on myself about. Worse if it becomes more regular.
• Having zero luck with the weather but thats part of training for a May marathon I guess. Mental resilience.
• First peak mileage week and I didnt notice any difference really. Sessions were chunkier for sure.
• Will be venturing out on to the marathon route more from now on for my sessions - following on from a conversation on healy's log its probably not wise to spend too many of those sessions on a perfectly flat loop.
• Probably mentioned this before but the aftershockz headphones I got at xmas were a really good purchase. Nice to be able to hear the music and the surroundings.
• I don't want anyone reading these updates thinking this is a walk in the park - its certainly not and the sessions are tough. The sleep situation is a constant spanner in the works. What I will say is I seem to be managing things reasonably well but that can very quickly change.
• Picked up a few bits n bobs from runhub - most efficient service ever - delivered within 24hrs.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 10E/2x2T off 2mins/2E (nice little warmup there...............)

Q2: 8E/5x3min Interval off 2min/6x1min R off 2min/2E - my least favorite session in the plan....

Just over 9 weeks to go!!

squinn2912

That T pace is some turnover! I’m a bit impressed at you knocking those out. Nice second block of 6 for your MP and you were a beast for it. In 6 weeks time you’re gonna be some man!

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118649029#Comment_118649029

Cheers lad. If you'd said to me three months ago I'd be happy with 6.15 threshold pace I'd have laughed at you. Marathon training is a different beast.

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 8 – (17-Feb to 23-Feb)

Anyone else sick of this feckin' weather?! I'm sorry I didn't title this log "The Windy Road to Nowhere".

Thursday, Feb 17th

Plan: 10E/2x2T off 2mins/2E

Actual: 10E/2x2T off 2mins/3E

Shoe: NB Fuelcell TC

10 miles easy before even touching off the faster stuff - god I miss 10k training 😂

This was a big session and a toughie. Long day at work, kids put to bed and reluctantly headed out. Weather was crap, as has been the theme of this training block! Headed out towards Raheen for the 10 mile "warmup". Felt good to be honest. Always a good sign when my easy miles naturally fall around 8min/mile. Did the first of the 2T on North Circular Road. I'm determined I'll have that road beaten before it gets a chance to beat me on the day. Going around it at 6.10 pace after 10 miles easy should put me in good stead. The wind was all over the shop, particularly for the threshold miles so I went purely by feel and ignored the watch. Not forcing the paces on this plan as I said last week. Headed back in the Condell Road for the second 2T. To be fair the Condell road is flat although slight headwind in place. Legs were very much feeling it by the end but was very very happy with my nights work. I forgot to mention the feeling of panic when I saw "Low Battery" flash up 8 miles into the run. "Great" ,I said, "I've done a Healy on it". Amazingly the battery lasted a further 9 miles. Once the threshold stuff finished I saved it off and restarted for the cooldown. It never died. Three miles added on for cooldown giving a decent 17 miles for the night. Satisfied. But tough.

10E: 7.55/8.03/8.06/8.00/7.56/8.03/8.04/8.03/98.04/8.08 (there's nothing quite like that horrible feeling of seeing mile 10 approaching an end knowing you now need to pick it up to threshold for two miles)

2T: 6.12/6.20

2T: 6.14/6.04 (was working hard by the end - HR suggests threshold. Breathing suggested otherwise)

3E: 8.30/8.16/8.07

Total: 17 miles, 2hr11mins

Friday, Feb 18th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 4 miles, 33.30mins, 8.23min/mile

Storm was about - got out early in the morning but was very blustery. Kept it local to home.

This was essentially a double day being only 12hrs since the end of the previous days session! Knowing I had two big session this week and only 54 miles to make up in total I kept this shorter than usual.

Saturday, Feb 19th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Solo parenting two of the kids followed by taking the eldest to the circus - she had a ball. Then taking the little one overnight. Yes, "Rest".

Sunday, Feb 20th 

Plan: Easy plus strides

Actual: Easy 6.7 miles incl 6x20s Strides, 55mins, 8.11mins/mile avg

More wind so I stayed local again! And GPS never unstupided itself meaning the average pace is off.. Felt great.

Monday, Feb 21st

Plan: 8E/5x3min Interval off 2min/6x1min R off 2min/2E

Actual: 8E/5x3min Interval off 2min/4x1min R off 2min/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Speed

First of all - when this is all over and done with, these session in the Daniels plan are the ones I will not miss..

Secondly - the Speeds are just a great shoe for this pace. I love them.

This session was a bit of a progression on the session from several weeks ago although it had two extra easy miles tacked on at the start. Back then I really struggled with this session. I still do, but less so. Similar daunting feeling closing out on 8 miles knowing you need to hit 5k effort. 3mins has never felt so long. This was just plain hard. Trying to manage the windy conditions didnt help but to be fair I used a stretch of road that had more of a crosswind than a tail or headwind. Completed the 5x3mins ok. 6x1min cant be that bad can it? Yes, it can. By the fourth rep I could feel the legs just really fatiguing over the last 20 seconds of the rep. Decided to leave it at that. These sessions really take my calf muscles right to the edge. No point forcing it. What is an extra 2 x 1mins gonna buy me? ANother big one in the bank. Really feel like I'm getting into the meat of the plan now.

8E: 8.01/7.59/7.59/8.02/7.56/8.03/8.01/8.15

5x3mins pace for each: 5.41/5.42/5.40/5.42/5.41 (semi half jogged most recoveries)

4x1mins pace for each: 5.07/5.10/5.15/5.23 (shaky legs by the end of the 5.23) (walked most recoveries)

2E: 8.29/8.18

Total: 15 miles, 1hr59mins, 7.55min/mile average

Tuesday, Feb 22nd

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5 miles, 42.30mins, 8.29min/mile average

Very tired - legs, body and mind

Wednesday, Feb 23rd

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 7 miles incl. 8x20s strides, 59mins, 8.25avg

Felt good - wind very bad again today. Legs pretty much recovered. Strides were "poppy".

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 54

Actual mileage for the week: 54.7

Time on feet: 7hrs 20mins

Miles in the block to date: 433.5

Number of MP miles: 29

Number of Threshold miles: 41

Comments

• The weather was cat. So I'm very happy I managed all days as planned plus all sessions more or less as planned.
• Sleep has been very poor. Missus has been in the spare room with chesty cough (not Covid) so I've been on night duty.
• The Daniels 5k sessions are , so far, the most difficult on the plan. They also are very much against my philosophy on running. I think they carry a real risk of injury given the volume and pace. I felt like I wasnt a million miles away from cramp if I forced the extra 2 x 1mins.
• I feel stronger, even though the paces aren't necessarily showing it.
• Next week is a biggie!

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 18 miles easy (technically 120mins but i'm bumping up this)

Q2: 2E/12M/2E (Yay more marathon paced miles!)

Just over 8 weeks to go!!

Duanington

Another strong week in the bag - fair play.

I'd be careful about forming a habit of ditching a rep or two on sessions though, fine every once in a while of course but I really think toughing it out, even at a slower effort if required, should be the norm. Not that you are in the habit of ditching reps of course but it can creep in pretty easily

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118679266#Comment_118679266

My calf muscles would disagree 😂

Honestly it really felt like I was about to cramp. I know what you're getting at and I'm honestly not one to take the easy way out and start doing it regularly.......but.......on that specific session I honestly think the load is too much...At least I think its too much for me....5 x 3mins at 5k alone is a decent nights work. Doing that as part of a 15 mile session with an extra 6 x 1mins at mile effort tacked on at the end.....I dunno.....its one of those sessions that really shows you who the Daniels sessions are really targeted at (I'd argue not debut marathon sub 3 runners!).

Honestly the form was gone - even 6min/mile pace would have been a wobbly, leggy chore.

Duanington

Ah yeah, I know well you’re a great man for digging in, it was more a note of caution of how it can become a habit that you just don’t want anywhere near your mental state come the big day. Not so much on this instance really, seems to have been the right thing to do at the time

Murph_D

No harm in taking the intensity down a notch, as opposed to reducing the reps. Some session that all the same!

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118680629#Comment_118680629

Yeah it's a fair point. To be honest these sessions are so new to me it's taken a while to "learn" the best approach. In reality I should probably dial back the effort to 5.45/5.50 pace for the 3min reps and complete full session but you know yourself, once you dial into an effort, then by the fourth or fifth rep it's already too late.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118680581#Comment_118680581

Yeah I get you. For me the real mental testers are the threshold and marathon paced sessions. Yesterday it was a case of do I really want to risk injury for a couple of one minute reps.

E.coli

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118680795#Comment_118680795

I definitely see both sides of the discussion here and merits of both view points

Rather than simply dialing back the pace personally I think best practice with speed work in marathon training is approach it in a progressive manner and work down to the paces in general. time on fatigued legs plays just as much a role in training as the intensities so working down to the right intensities can be a good way to get best of both worlds while reducing injury risk. Most of the time this will come from sudden changes in pace/intensity so progressive nature can be a way of coaxing the body.

There are a number of training methodologies which buy into this as part of an overall approach and as a result add a progressive nature to warm up so they end up at MP for about 5 min of a 20 min warm up just to get the muscles supple and adjusted to pace change.

I reckon with sessions like the one you did even if you worked down to 5k pace by the 2-3rd one you will still get the desired affects you are looking for from the session

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118679532#Comment_118679532

Form over pace! Form over pace! Last thing you want is a stupid injury just because you sacrificed form for pace. I learned that the hard way and trust me you do not want to experience that! 😁

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692564#Comment_118692564

Ah yeah...I hear ya...its a learning process. 8 miles easy before going into 5k effort has you relearning what exactly 5k effort means. Not what I'm used to atall.

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 9 – (24-Feb to 02-Mar)

A lot going on this week!

Thursday, Feb 24th

Plan: 120mins

Actual: 18 miles (145mins)

Shoe: NB Fuelcell TC

Before anyone says it, yes I know this was much more than the plan! To be honest, looking at the vanilla long runs in the plan, if I stick to it rigidly then the max long vanilla run will be about 18 miles or so. I'd rather have at least a couple of loner runs with more time on my feet even if that goes against my specific plan. If I had gone with the 55-70mile 2Q plan id be running 18 and 20 milers at this stage. Anyways, excuses out the way.

Headed out towards Raheen for this one. Hadnt been feeling great all day. Just general tiredness from the weekend. This run was fine. But it was a slog. I completely get what AMK meant several weeks back when he said he would rather not do Daniels next time as its an unsociable plan. I'd much rather have company for these long vanilla runs but I don't really have any choice but to run these solo given work, family and life constraints. I dont see many people running their long runs on a Monday night 😂

This was my longest run ever, believe it or not. Happy to get it done. Didnt take on water or gels. Hit hard by the wind coming back in the Condell Road on Mile 16...Was cursing the wind.....again....

Total: 18 miles, 2hr25mins, 8.02min/mile average

Friday, Feb 25th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5 miles, 42mins, 8.23min/mile

Very tired. No pain or niggles...Just tired. Kept it very easy.

Saturday, Feb 26th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest. Had a nice day actually. Got the two eldest out and about to the playground. They were fun. Had a nice evening.

Sunday, Feb 27th 

Plan: Easy plus strides

Actual: Easy 8.4 miles incl 8x20s Strides, 70mins, 8.38mins/mile avg

Absolutely wrecked all day. Zero enthusiasm heading out and..................loved every minute. Running makes zero sense.

Monday, Feb 28th

Plan: 2E/12M/2E

Actual: 3E/12M/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Pro

Well then - a biggie...Probably the biggest on the plan to date. 12 miles at marathon pace.

I've been getting a little braver with my routes lately. Given how I felt in the first few weeks of the plan I was keeping the routes generally flat. It was just too much trying to adjust to the new stimulus and then throw in lumpy routes to add to the mix. Well around weeks 4-7 I started to adjust to the stimulus and so now I'm taking on board some inputs and learnings from some experienced folks and throwing in some lumps and bumps into my session.

First 6 miles were reasonably comfortable. I really didnt pay too much attention to the watch - checked it every now and then alright but was trying to go by effort. Weather was much improved so that wasnt really a factor til later in the run when it started to heat up.

I hadnt really preplanned the route too much and at mile 7 I was faced with a dilemma opportunity. As I passed by Jetland I had planned on taking a right and heading back in Condell road (pretty flat). The pedestrian lights turned green just as I was about to turn meaning the possibility of heading up that nasty hill at the GAA grounds was now in play. Made a split second decision to take the harder route and head up the hill. To be honest, I'd be annoyed if I didnt face that hill once in the training block. Pace fell back a bit but effort level was about right (I think).

Hit by the wind on Condell coming back in around mile 10/11 of the marathon paced section. Finished up with a two mile cooldown for 17 miles all in.

This was a tough session and to be honest its very hard to judge marathon effort. Like what does it mean to run marathon effort on mile 1 versus mile 12? I can honestly say my effort level at the start vs the end were not the same.

Either way this is one of those sessions that give a big confidence boost. That being said, Duanington had mentioned the notion of smashing all sessions out of the park on AMK's log. It really resonates with me. I've always worked best when not all sessions were monster sessions, especially when working with Luke. This Daniels plan well and truly feels like every session is a big one. Its a pretty relentless plan. I'm not sure i'd follow it again to be honest.

One other thing worth noting here was my approach mentally to the session. Thought it might be of interest to some. I tend to break up these sessions into segments. For this I initially focus on just the first 3 miles. Forget the rest. Once those 3 miles pass I note in my head that I'm one quarter of the way there. Park that and think about the next three. Once done, i'm half the way there. So the fraction is always moving in the right direction to keep me positive in my mindset. I'm also counting down. So only 6 miles left to go, then five then four and so on. The last few is just pure concerntration knowing its almost done. Works for me anyway!

12M: 6.54/6.55/6.51/6.48/6.44/6.43/6.58/6.46/6.56/6.51/6.53/6.46

Total: 17 miles, 2hr02mins, 7.10min/mile average

Tuesday, Mar 1st

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5 miles, 44mins, 8.25min/mile average

Back in the office again and boy what a novelty it is to be running in the Raheen/Dooradoyle/Mungret area again. Loved it. Tired but easy.

Wednesday, Mar 2nd

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 7.2 miles incl. 8x20s strides, 60mins, 8.20avg

Felt pretty recovered and energetic today - again buoyed by the fact im in new surroundings.

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 60

Actual mileage for the week: 60.5

Time on feet: 8hrs 03mins

Miles in the block to date: 494

Number of MP miles: 41

Number of Threshold miles: 41

Comments

• Solid week but probably the most fatigued i've been in a few weeks.
• Sleep has been very hit and miss still. Little one waking every night around 4 or 5am but going back to sleep soon after. Still a disturbed sleeping pattern for me though.
• Back at work so adjusting to a new routine between work and home.
• As said above this is very much a "knock it out of the park every week" plan.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 2E/6M/1E/4M/1T/1E (emboldened in the plan so open to change - will see how the body is tomorrow)

Q2: 5E/3x2T off 2min/1T/2E

Lambay island

Smashing run that on Monday. I can relate with the fractions and countdown of miles on long MP runs.

Laineyfrecks

Great week there! I too break up my longer runs or sessions, For positivity I prefer to think, yes I have 6 miles done rather than, oh god I've 6 more to do. Breaking it up into sections really helps mentally.

I agree this running lark makes no sense at all!! I don't know how many times, due to any given reason/reasons I would be dreading a run then I go out & really enjoy it! I guess that's what keeps us going😉

Murph_D

Super stuff. Wouldn't worry at all about the tiredness/fatigue - totally normal, especially for a rookie! Wouldn't worry if one of those hits stays in the park either, as long as it's a score. 😉

AuldManKing

Week 9 already! Super weeks training - that 12m MP was superbly executed.

I think you'll find the Q1 session next week more manageable as a result.

I love the mental games we play on these runs!

Swashbuckler

People should listen to this AMK fella. He's a wise auld man. Today's session felt much easier. Most enjoyable one so far on the plan.

E.coli

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118727902#Comment_118727902

Much easier to go out and run hard, suffer and it be over till the next day.

Marathon is so much more emotionally attritional. AMK and Murph_D are right somedays its about weathering the storm and just ticking the boxes. They don't all have to be pretty steps along the way but each one gets you closer to the start line

babacool

You wouldn’t happen to have a strava link to the limerick marathon route? I scared a friend when I said “you need to run hilly routes as limerick isn’t flat”. He is scared now 😁

Swashbuckler

@healy1835 would you mind pimping out your sub 3 limerick run one more time?

It's not that hilly @babacool .

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733121#Comment_118733121

Uuuuuhhhhhh that “your sub3 limerick run” microphone drop 😁.

thanks. Got it of someone else. Says “231m of elevation” which is more than Dublin has. Might be some false reading but definitely scares him now. Let’s keep it that way. Has him focus a bit more on training 😂

healy1835

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118733121#Comment_118733121

It's on the Limerick Marathon thread. I'm not posting it again after the guff you gave me last time 😢

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 10 – (03-Mar to 09-Mar)

Marathon training is gas. One week you're worried it's too tough. The next you're worried it's too easy...Or maybe that's just me.

Thursday, Mar 3rd

Plan: 2E/6M/1E/4M/1T/1E

Actual: 2E/6M/1E/4M/1T/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Pro

AMK had predicted I would find this easier than the 12M last week and he was spot on. I understand the fact this was broken up with a 1E in between would make it somewhat easier but even the initial 6M felt easier. This whole run just felt "good". I didnt feel like I was struggling at any point. Took in a much lumpier route this time including sections of the marathon route itself. Got in the section up Rosbrien road and into Dooradoyle and loop around Churchill meadows. This part of the route is certainly not easy. Some drags and bumps. Up to Collins bar and into Churchill meadows surprised me actually. I had forgotten about the few drags and bumps around there. Plenty of pickup in the legs for the threshold mile which was also on a lumpy section of road. Felt like a good days work in the end.

2E: 7.54/7.59

6M: 6.50/6.48/6.51/6.45/6.53/6.46

1E: 8.00

4M: 6.56/6.56/6.53/6.47 (toughest part of the route)

1T: 6.10

2E: 8.04/7.55

Total: 15.2 miles, 1hr48mins, 7.07min/mile average

This run is in stark contrast to some of the runs in the first week or two of the plan. Definitely getting stronger.

Friday, Mar 4th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 6 miles, 51mins, 8.28min/mile

Nothing to report. Nice and handy - didnt feel overly tired but the usual "legs have worked the previous day".

Saturday, Mar 5th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest. I had always planned that I would need to run 7 day weeks for some of these peak mileage weeks. It just hasnt materialised. Family have taken priority meaning I make up the miles the rest of the week.

Sunday, Mar 6th 

Plan: Easy plus strides

Actual: Easy 9.1 miles - No Strides, 73mins, 7.58mins/mile avg

As seems to be the case every week - long day, zero enthusiasm for this - loved it. Very fresh legs.

I think I miss the run on Saturday so by Sunday I really feel like I need the mental reset. I'm recovering very well from the sessions this week.

Monday, Mar 7th

Plan: 5E/3x2T/1T/2E

Actual: 5E/3x2T/1T/2E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Speed

You know you've made progress when you look at this and think - only 5 miles Easy before the threshold? Ah shur thats grand.

All joking aside Daniels plans do condition you in a way that 14 mil sessions no longer seem daunting.

This was another one I was really really happy with. Very very windy day, to the point where I considered pushing it out a day but persevered. Impossible to get a route where the wind would be in my favour so just decided to go out and take it by feel. Also chose lumpy route again. Mentally this has been the biggest success over the past two weeks. I feel like I'm not scared by these sessions being out on "real" road over picking easier routes. Hopefully that will stand to me both mentally and physically on the day.

Blasted by the wind for a few of the threshold miles here which is reflected in the pacing. I'm proud at how I managed this one though. By the end I felt like most, if not all the session was at the right effort. Handling this session far better than the equivalent session several weeks back. It feels like an age ago where I had to change a 3x2T into a 4x1T. On paper , the paces are all over the shop. The reality was quite different. All 2min recoveries were jogged.

5E: 8.08/8.08/8.09/8.11/8.09

2T: 6.38/6.20

2T: 6.16/6.18

2T: 6.12/6.16

1T: 6.26

2E: 8.22/8.06

Total: 14.9 miles, 1hr50mins, 7.21min/mile average

Tuesday, Mar 8th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 6 miles, 50mins, 8.20min/mile average

Another very blustery day. Tired last couple of miles but thumbs up. All good.

Wednesday, Mar 9th

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 9.2 miles incl. 8x20s strides, 75mins, 8.04avg

Felt super - very much recovered - enjoyed this run. Running at work has been a breath of fresh air

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 60

Actual mileage for the week: 60.4

Time on feet: 7hrs 47mins

Miles in the block to date: 558

Number of MP miles: 51

Number of Threshold miles: 49

Comments

• Very happy with this week - too fresh?????? Am I peaking too soon????? Purple patch??????? aaaaagggggghh.... 😂. I'm sure the next few weeks will bring me back down to earth.
• Taking to the lumpy routes for the sessions has been a good move (I think) and thanks for those who gave advice on this front.
• Running in work has been refreshing. The old jeans feel a little tighter around the calf muscles than they used to. Either thats training or its the fact I've got used to wearing tracksuit pants working from home for two years.
• We had a very good TED talk at work this week from John Kinsella. He used to frequent these parts before my time I think. He took up running in 2015 to lose weight and recently ran 2.29 in London and I dont think he has even got close to his full potential yet. Frightening progress.
• Plan to try out the Alphafly and gels in my next session. I've been getting a bollocking from healy for not doing this sooner so it's more to keep him happy than anything else.
• The weeks are ticking by. Can't believe I'm moving into week 11 of the plan already.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 60min Easy/8M/1E

Q2: 8E/4x4min Interval pace off 3min/3E

ReeReeG

I don't really have anything to say other than I am really enjoying following your build-up to Limerick. Great detail in the training each week. If you can manage long runs in the evening mid-week after a day of work, the longest one of all on a Sunday morning should feel much nicer I reckon!!

Murph_D

Great progress, love that feeling when the accumulated strength kicks in!

diego_b

Looking good so far P, take the good weeks when they come....nice reward for the work done to date and a good boost for the work to come.

AuldManKing

Great work - 3 things I really like;

(1) Doing some of the runs on the Marathon route - this is gold!

(2) Tempos by feel/effort

(3) Lumpy routes.

Top marks young man.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761364#Comment_118761364

Yeah at this stage I've covered the Ennis road side, the UL side and the Raheen/ Dooradoyle side. The only parts I can't really do are the city centre parts as it gets very messy with lights and traffic.

More lumps,bumps, alphafly, gels and marathon pace on marathon route planned for today!

Swashbuckler

Thanks for the kind words folks.

Annie get your Run

Have to agree, I'm in awe reading your updates. I love the detail which explains the process and progress. Makes it easy for someone like me to really understand a Daniels plan.

Swashbuckler

Thanks AGYR. We'll it felt like I needed a degree in mathematics to understand the plan so I made it a goal of mine to simplify so people might pick up the book or a plan and easily follow 🤣

Swashbuckler

Great Limerick Marathon 2022 – Daniels 2Q Plan Week 11 – (10-Mar to 16-Mar)

Big update this week as I needed to reshuffle which means I have week 11's Q1 update included this week.

Thursday, Mar 10th

Plan: 60min Easy/8M/1E

Actual: 8E/8M/1E

Shoe: Alphafly

This would be a little test run where I would try out the shoes and gels I intend on using on the big day. Having never run a session in the Alphafly I wanted to try them out at pace, and over a reasonable enough distance/time on feet. I also wanted to test out taking a couple of gels at pace to see how I managed and if they gave me any "issues". I had been hesitant til now to experiment with the shoes and gels as I wanted to get a few decent sessions under my belt first. But then Healy gave me fierce abuse so I said I better bite the bullet. 😂

Wind was a big factor again on this run, as has been the case on a lot of sessions in this block, in particular there was one 7min/mile. Same story again in terms of route. I didnt take the easy option. Was very pleased with how this went but it was a toughie. The gels were fine. So its SIS gels for me for Limerick then. As for the Alphafly I felt like they were missing the magic for the first 8 miles but they felt better when I picked up to marathon pace. However I had hotspots on the soles of both feet about 14 miles into the run. Hard to know if it was the shoes or the socks (new compression socks). I'm gonna need another trial run with the Aplhafly in different socks and then possibly in the Next% if the Alphafly don't work out.

8E: 7.56/7.57/8.02/7.53/7.58/8.04/7.56/8.02

8M: 6.52/6.50/6.46/6.50/6.42/7.00/6.45/6.44

1E: 8.10

Total: 17 miles, 2hr07mins, 7.26min/mile average

Another good one in the bank on a day where I wasnt particularly feeling fantastic.

Friday, Mar 11th

Plan: Easy

Actual: Easy 5 miles, 42mins, 8.21min/mile

Felt great after loosening out in the first mile.

Saturday, Mar 12th

Plan: Rest

Actual: Rest. Had a lovely day with the kids - we headed to Killaloe for lunch! Lunch! In a hotel! without masks! Nice to see some level of normality coming back again.

Sunday, Mar 13th 

Plan: Easy plus strides

Actual: Mondays planned session moved to today: 8E/4x4min Interval pace off 3min/3E

Shoe: Saucony Endorphin Speed

Ugh - absolutely pummeled by the wind here. If I didnt like these sessions before then I certainly dont now. I needed to reshuffle this with Patrick's Day coming up. I wanted to take Thursday, 17th off so I can enjoy it with the family rather than have a session looming over me all day so I shifted the Monday session back to Sunday and the following Thursday back to Wednesday.

Pretty easy to sum up this session. Wind was desperate. Tried to make sure I finished the 8 miles "warmup" in a spot that would allow me to at least avoid the worst of the wind. I made a bad choice at mile 7 and went a direction which I thought seemed less worse...I was wrong...500m down the Condell Road I quickly realised this was gonna be a bit of a barrage...So decision made, go by effort, get the turnover and keep form, forget paces....The pace splits tell the entire story. Threshold pace for 5k effort. Tough night of it. Not very enjoyable. Got it done.

8E: 8.06/8.03/8.02/7.52/7.59/8.00/7.59/8.18/8.34

4 x 4mins split paces: 6.10/5.42/6.02/6.07

3E: 8.20/8.20/8.16

Total: 15.3 miles, 1hr59mins, 7.49min/mile average

Monday, Mar 14th

Plan: 8E/4x4min Interval pace off 3min/3E (Completed the day before)

Actual: Easy 5M

Very good recovery. Didnt feel yesterdays session in the legs too much.

Total: 5 miles, 42mins, 8.25min/mile average

Tuesday, Mar 15th

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Easy 7 miles incl 6x20s Strides - 59mins, 8.29min/mile average

Poor sleep Monday night. Low energy for this one. Didnt feel fantastic.

Wednesday, Mar 16th

Plan: Easy with strides

Actual: Thursdays session moved to today: 20 miles

Shoe: NB Fuelcell TC

The biggie! Longest ever run. Prepped well enough for this in terms of nutrition and hydration. Very warm out so it was singlet and hat weather. Took two gels with me and saltstick fastchews. Note to self - saltstick fastchews are a pretty unpleasant thing to digest at any pace. Fizzy acid is how I'd describe them.

I dont intend on breaking this down mile by mile. Took a gel at 45mins and 90mins. Probably didnt have enough water. Very very warm today. Went through a few emotions during this one 😂. For the first 10 or so miles it was fine although in the back of my mind it was lingering that I was about to complete (or attempt to complete) my longest ever run. Probably played on my mind a tiny bit but the last several few weeks has given me a lot of confidence. Was out and around UL and up to Vistakon (the marathon route). I found as the run went on I needed to concentrate more and more. Wasn't easy to just switch off. 2hrs 40mins out on your own is a lonnnnnnnngggggggggg time. The music kept me going. I have to say I enjoyed this - mostly enjoyed the challenge of ticking off my longest ever run. The last mile was interesting - could feel the effort level drifting up and felt more leggy. Not sure if its hydration or glycogen depletion. Anybody know?? I'd be interested to hear. It felt like approaching the point at which everyone wants to avoid on the big day. Don't get me wrong - I wasnt flogged, but I was moving in a direction where another couple of miles would have been a struggle.

Total: 20 miles, 2hr39mins, 7.55min/mile average

_______________________________________________________________________

Planned mileage for the week: 54

Actual mileage for the week: 69.3 (this is artificial due to Week 12's Q1 session being pulled in to Wednesday

Time on feet: 9hrs 8mins

Miles in the block to date: 627.3

Number of MP miles: 59

Number of Threshold miles: 49

Comments

• Entering a tough period in the plan now - big big sessions coming starting with the 20 miler today. Glad I decided not to race Mallow.
• Very happy still although I think the next few weeks will be tough. I expect to be more tired. These weeks will be a true test of where I'm at. If I can get through them I think my confidence (which is already high) will be flying.
• Will need to do some more shuffling over the next period with birthdays and solo parenting nights coming up!
• Week 12 mileage should be lower to counter the high mileage in week 11. This should happen naturally enough.
• Happy to have gels sorted. Will be happy when I have the shoes sorted too.
• I laugh when I look back at the guy on day 1 making plans for paces and referencing off a 36.22 10k time. There isnt a solitary hope in hell I would manage the marathon and threshold paces associated with that 10k time....Not in this block anyway. Sub 3 is now the A goal.

Next weeks sessions;

Q1: 20 miles (done)

Q2: 2E/8M/3x1T off 1mins/2E - might try the Alphafly here again.

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118794608#Comment_118794608

Think you are starting to overthink the shoe and gel part. (Ok gel is sorted). What I normally do as part of a marathon lead up I pick a shoe at the start of the block and then have my test races starting at 10k, 10mile, half and then full marathon. Always using the same shoe just to get a feel on how they develop with increase in distance and always slightly slower pace. This experimenting with them at this stage just adds unnecessary stress without any benefit, pick a shoe now and live with it. I also wouldn’t experiment with socks. I have 1 pair that I only use for the 1 big race per year. That pair is now 6 years old 😁.

what I’m trying to say is: if you were happy enough with the next% at your last race, stick with them. Put the alpha back in the box until the next cycle and start using them then.

Then again, what do I know and who am I to give advice?! 😎

Swashbuckler

Well the problem with that advice is I've never raced beyond 13.1 miles and I've never worn either the alphafly or next% beyond 10k so I need to know how they feel after 17, 18, 19 miles.

Honestly I'm not stressing...throwing on the alphafly for a session is no different mentally to throwing on the Endorphin pro. It's all good.

babacool

you don’t need to know how they feel after 13.1miles. Like I said, last 3 marathon cycles (not talking about donadea here), I only did 3 runs max in the shoes I wore on marathon day. And the max distance been 13.1miles. If the shoe is good enough for that, it’s definitely good enough for the full.

Swashbuckler

The only time I've worn the alphafly was in that session where i had hotspots. So what are you suggesting I do?

babacool

I suggest to use the pair of shoes that you pick today (if you raced in both of them and been happy with the result, I would pick the shoe you felt most comfortable in). not tomorrow, not after your next run but today. And don’t change your mind.

make a decision and live with the consequences. It’s part of running a marathon and the learning curve.

Sure use them again if you like but stick to the decision regardless of how the next run goes.

Either of them two seems to be a decent enough marathon shoe. So it won’t be a wrong decision.

Wottle

For me running Seville I decided 4 weeks out. I was between carbon X2, fuelcell elite and Vaporflies. Did a long run in each of them and then it became obvious it had to be the Vaporflies.

I've run marathons over the years but never in a super shoe and I was concerned about the Vaporflies before their first long run because they're not the most comfortable.

I'd say take your time but with 4 weeks to go you should know as you'll probably want to do the last big sessions in them and get an idea for the relationship with pace & HR.

Murph_D

I would certainly be wary of the hotspots you developed with the combo you used. Babacool makes an excellent point but I’d maybe have another go with some tried and tested socks. A brand/model you know and trust and have used before without issue. With the caveat that you can only learn so much from the dress rehearsal. Ultimately you’ll be diving into the unknown.

The ‘leggy’ feeling at the end of the run is probably glycogen depletion alright. You’re going to feel it either way, no matter how you react to gels the supplies are going to get lower than they ever have before. It’s a feeling you’ll learn to live with as you take things to the edge.

Swashbuckler

Thanks guys.

With the shoes it would be a different story if I had a long history with both shoes. I don't. So they need to be tested out. I'll know in the next ten days which shoe it will be anyway. Plus it's giving me something to think about outside of the pain of the sessions 🤣

squinn2912

You’ll hardly come full circle and try out the Cumulous hehe

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118797365#Comment_118797365

Only if my 25 other pairs don't work out in training 😆

MrMacPhisto

I think sticking to a shoe now regardless is not a good approach particularly when you have plenty of time left to try out the Alphalfys at MP and the Next % at MP in this training block. I might take Babacool's approach if the race was in 2 or 3 weeks time, but this is not the case.

As Babacool says, both are decent marathon shoes. But if you have the time to try both and see which is more comfortable or suits you better, then why not do just that? Good luck with the decision.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118797419#Comment_118797419

HAhaha!! You and I are very different!

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798353#Comment_118798353

Give it time..you'll come round 😆

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798269#Comment_118798269

Yeah I agree completely. To be honest I'm surprised the mention of the shoes got so much attention this week!

It seems wreckless to me to chose a shoe now and stick with that choice regardless. I'm not even that interested in tuning into marathon pace in them. It's more a case of , do I end up with blisters on my feet after 10 miles and if I do then obviously they're off the table for the marathon.

Plenty of time.

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118798553#Comment_118798553

the fact that the shoe gets the attention is a good sign. Means that everything else becomes the norm and you no longer need encouragement 😂. And this “will it give me blisters or not” thinking/fear/concern or whatever you want to call that - isn’t that part of running a marathon? Making a decision and just having to live with it? Entering the unknown? Already creating the base for excuses if things aren’t going well on the day (usually it’s the weather or the wrong sun cream or the water cups handed out instead of bottles etc 😂. Whatever you can think off I’ve probably used that excuse at some stage).

i ran with blisters so many times. They have been bloody and huge. Uncomfortable and painful but that hasn’t stopped me wearing the shoes that caused it. Quite the opposite, I continued using the shoes including on race day. Just so the feet get used to it, harden up, and I learn how to push through that pain. It’s an experience you won’t get in a training run.

also who says that the next time you use them shoes may not give you blisters but since you are not going through the same effort as on race day you may still get them on race day? Or if you get them during your next run, who says that it will happen on race day too? Perhaps now they are fully broken in! Point I’m trying to make is: don’t try to cover every little aspect/thing that could go wrong during a marathon (I can’t even remember a marathon where I worried about the right gel or if I can handle it). Focus on getting the sessions and training done. Pick a shoe now (heck I have already decided which shoe to wear for DCM!) and start planning your race week setup. 😁