Ireland badly needs a new centre-right party - Here's my proposal

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045380#Comment_118045380

you said DP was a virtual prison

just correcting this inaccurate statement

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044877#Comment_118044877

DP should be abolished.

Process all claims within 24hrs at the ports, and deport asap.

The vast majority of claims are bogus, so deport from the ports.

Don't let the bogus AS establish themselves here.

Welcome genuine refugees, as we do, great.

But deport bogus AS.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044736#Comment_118044736

Any bogus AS in DP is free to walk out, and go home.

It is not a prison.

That false language is not helpful.

Geuze

Anyways, to get back on topic, yes, we do need a good, strong centre-right party.

The working person, contributing tax, to be the main focus of policy

Tax reliefs for high earners to be curtailed

Official public policy that rents and house prices should always be affordable

Everything, everything to be done to boost housing supply, even if this causes losses for landowners / investors, etc.

All barriers to housing supply to be removed

Lease law to be reformed to drive down rents

Insurance / energy sectors to be reformed to drive down costs

Medical and legal sectors - everything to be done against the vested interests to drive down costs

JSB to be strengthened / JSA to be abolished

Nobody, ever, to face a MTR above 50%

Social insurance to be improved / social assistance to be flat

Maybe consider UHI instead of Slaintecare

Radical changes to justice / people with 100+ convictions no longer free to walk around /

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045862#Comment_118045862

If you imagine that its possible to process an asylum claim in 24 hours your as clueless about refugees as you sound. Your playing fantasy politics without a full deck.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213444/ireland-badly-needs-a-new-centre-right-party-heres-my-proposal

I thought you said we need a centre right party?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045214#Comment_118045214

SDs are centre left

cheezums

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045880#Comment_118045880

Eh that's a left policy bucket with a right wing justice item thrown in at the end.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045880#Comment_118045880

The working person, contributing tax, to be the main focus of policy

Tax reliefs for high earners to be curtailed

Official public policy that rents and house prices should always be affordable

Everything, everything to be done to boost housing supply, even if this causes losses for landowners / investors, etc.

All barriers to housing supply to be removed

Lease law to be reformed to drive down rents

Insurance / energy sectors to be reformed to drive down costs

Medical and legal sectors - everything to be done against the vested interests to drive down costs

JSB to be strengthened / JSA to be abolished

Nobody, ever, to face a MTR above 50%

Social insurance to be improved / social assistance to be flat

Maybe consider UHI instead of Slaintecare

Radical changes to justice / people with 100+ convictions no longer free to walk around /

You do realise all the above points which I've marked in Bold would find more support on the left than they would on the right?

If you know this, are plotting on gaining rightwingish support for such policies through telling such people you are a right wing candidate, then kudos for the inventiveness.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045866#Comment_118045866

It's helpful when waging a propaganda campaign

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045214#Comment_118045214

Huh. You seem to have missed one mainstream party with only one less TD than the Labour Party and who are polling as strong as them. Clue: They're centre-left.

Oh, and Aontú, who basically seem to be anti-abortion SF.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045862#Comment_118045862

FFS. You expect an asylum seeker to arrive with, somehow, all the necessary documentation to establish their bona fides? A letter from their national government saying "We'll be unjustly imprisoning [named person] next time they cross our borders"? An email from the local drug cartel, "Dear Irish Immigration Official, we will be taking this woman's children and pressing them into service as militia once they reach puberty."

And you get to justify this odious position by saying "well, they all went through due process!"

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046645#Comment_118046645

Basically he's trying to sound a bit reasonable when he says send them all back to where they came from. Odius is right.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045880#Comment_118045880

The working person, contributing tax, to be the main focus of policy

People working in the home, carers, retired people?

Tax reliefs for high earners to be curtailed

Left-wing.

Official public policy that rents and house prices should always be affordable

Left-wing.

Everything, everything to be done to boost housing supply, even if this causes losses for landowners / investors, etc.

Left-wing. Far-left, at that.

All barriers to housing supply to be removed

Populist bullshit that doesn't really mean anything. All barriers? All of them?! You haven't really thought this one through, have you?

Lease law to be reformed to drive down rents

Left-wing.

Insurance / energy sectors to be reformed to drive down costs

Handwave-y bullshit. "We'll do... something! We have no idea what, but we'll do it!" The insurance sector is undergoing reform - awards are down. Premiums are still rising. How do you propose Ireland reforms the (international) energy sector? In the middle of a climate crisis?

Medical and legal sectors - everything to be done against the vested interests to drive down costs

Sláintecare is designed to do precisely that in the health sector, while improving efficiency and outcomes for patients. But again, both are left-wing policies, being resisted by the vested interests of the centre-right.

JSB to be strengthened / JSA to be abolished

Nobody, ever, to face a MTR above 50%

Social insurance to be improved / social assistance to be flat

Maybe consider UHI instead of Slaintecare

Why? UHI? That just addresses how people pay for healthcare, not how it's delivered, where most of the problems arise. But this isn't centre-right.

What would you have instead of JSA? Or is there where you finally go full right-wing, and just let people starve?

Radical changes to justice / people with 100+ convictions no longer free to walk around /

That's far-right.

I don't think you really know what it is you're looking for, apart from maybe a 3-strikes rule of some kind, imported from America. It would appear to not be another FF/FG-like party, though. Why are you in favour of so many centre-left policies, yet you want (another) centre-right party?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046087#Comment_118046087

Dammit. Note to self: read the whole thread update before responding!

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046814#Comment_118046814

He would be advocating for that National Socialist flavour of the right then

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046645#Comment_118046645

Welcome to Dublin airport Mr asylum seeker, you boarded a flight in Europe to get here from Pakistan, Nigeria, wherever. You needed a passport to get onto the connecting flight in say Madrid but now you've no passport? No bother mate, you wouldn't believe how often it happens!

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048447#Comment_118048447

Your geography needs some work.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043376#Comment_118043376

You've funded that pension privately yourself presumably, so retire away.

Cause there's no low tax, decent state pension at 65 scenario out there.

Sadler Peak

A SF lead government will ensure FG resets to a centre right party in opposition.

One would hope anyway.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056176#Comment_118056176

That is a good and fair point...

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056176#Comment_118056176

Again, what is this "resets to centre-right" business? They're led by a Tory, who, in government, has presided over a homelessness and housing crisis that sees wealth transferred from the state and small "traditional" landlords to developers and investment funds (that centre-right Germany has banned!); and a carefully orchestrated failure of Sláintecare, to name just two areas.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056176#Comment_118056176

They'll go full fascist, you know it's just itching beneath the surface with most of them

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059217#Comment_118059217

I don't think they have the spine for that.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059513#Comment_118059513

I only know a few FG voters under 60, some of their views would be at odds with their official position, "cruel" would be how I would describe their views, Might be spineless and whimpering on their own, put when the pack mentality kicks in ,different story

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059563#Comment_118059563

Lets ask young people if they think its "cruel" to reduce welfare to able bodied people who refuse low paid work. You might not have as much support for your view as you think you do. They've just been brainwashed by a left wing media narrative but many are smart enough to see through it.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059563#Comment_118059563

I have found this a commonality with all conservative types, heartless to others unlike them would be a good description.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059593#Comment_118059593

The realisation usually kicks in when they earn enough to start paying tax at the 48% rate and realise their neighbour is paying FA for their rent.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059593#Comment_118059593

Lower paid work is usually real physical work ,the people you mention are mostly unfit for it, Core long term unemployed is roughly 40k give or take, in that you have or indigenous ethnic minority which needs no further comment, then there's the addicts and the mentally ill, some crossover there , which leaves about 10k who won't work, not exactly going to solve the staff crisis ,is it.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056176#Comment_118056176

I'm not sure about this. They will certainly be portraying themselves as the anti-SF but their main competitors for votes will remain FF and the soft left parties so they can't go too far to the right.

Everlong1

When are we going to start talking about this new party's policies on law and order? I'd happily vote for any party promising to put an end to the farce of scumbags with 70+ convictions walking the streets free and easy on endless bail, the farce of endless, unlimited so called "free" legal aid* which enables this, the disgrace of gangs of thugs being able to randomly attack complete strangers with impunity, and the farce of Gardai being unable or unwilling to dispense some "robust" policing to street thugs and feral little teenage scrotes for fear of being charged with assault.

*Free to scumbags that is. Of course it's not actually "free" because you're paying for it.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061656#Comment_118061656

Pro-choice, pro-marriage-equality, injection centres, secular state, state-owned maternity hospital, increase pension age, increase public sector hours, remove family-friendly policies from public sector workers, cut education budgets, re-introduce student fees, cut welfare payments, that kinda thing?

You're looking at the Labour Party.

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118060116#Comment_118060116

Disability is where it's at for any self respecting dole lifer, no one annoying u!

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2020-12-03/5/#:~:text=Today%2C%20there%20are%20almost%20147%2C000,disability%20allowance%20this%20year%20alone.

Today, there are almost 147,000 people. That is nearly a 50% increase in the number of people receiving disability allowance since 2010. We expect to spend €1.8 billion on disability allowance this year alone.3 Dec 2020

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061742#Comment_118061742

OP has this in his 'manifesto'

Law and Order - Build two new prisons. Introduce mandatory sentences for various crimes, similar to mandatory caps on insurance payouts introduced recently. This would remove the problem of judges handing out ridiculously low sentences.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061822#Comment_118061822

And no doubt hand over the running of the prisons to their favorite criminal,

Sadler Peak

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059217#Comment_118059217

You talking about SF ? If so I whole heartedly agree.

Shoog

The trouble with the Irish Prison system is a serious lack of investment, and this is a problem with almost all of the failing Irish institutions. The solution is to spend more money on them which unfortunately means drawing in more taxes. Since the Irish people cannot pay any more taxes - then the tax must fall on business. This is where the right wing bias in Irish politics causes the problem since all the parties currently in the government are parties of low business taxation - a truism of the right that all "business taxes" are evil.

If you want more appropriate prison sentencing then you have to expand the size of the prison system, the current broken sentencing regime is a response to the lack of capacity.

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118061988#Comment_118061988

No FG, have you not been getting the Bruton updates? He wants your Jackboot size by next Wednesday,

The DayDream

OP it must be awful to be so maniacally obsessed with those that have less than you that you have to constantly start threads bashing them. Why don't you ever try punching up? Or just enjoy the fact you don't have to try and scrape by on benefits.

Your palaver is the middle class equivalent of someone on minimum wage pointing at a homeless person and saying, 'They're the ones to blame for me not being more well off.'

Can't you just relax and enjoy your chinos and Heinos and Audis and kitchen islands like the rest of the middle class?

Because your wasting your time with all this Walter Mitty 'if I was in charge' nonsense. You know whenever someone talks about how they's build more prisons and stick more people in them that they have no clue what working in a prison is like or how the legal system here works in any way.

We get it Fred, you hate the poors. But guess what, the rich folks at the top are never going to let the likes of you into their club. You, like the lower classes, exist to keep them afloat. Unlike the lower classes the money they get from your taxes does not go back into the economy.

Do you think if, for example, the dole was abolished, that the money saved would go back into the pockets of the likes of you? Would it feck! And a large proportion of the businesses that are owned and worked at by middle class people would suddenly find themselves with a massive reduction in money coming in.

The incentives around work are not lacking because the dole is too high. It's because wages are too low and the cost of living, especially housing, is too high. There is little point in taking low paid work when you lose benefits like the medical card, rent allowance etc. and can't afford even a 1 BR flat on a full time wage, especially if you want to run a car.

We need higher wages for lower earners not higher taxes. But I know when someone is as ensconced in selfish right wing ideologies s you are, trying to explain this to you would be like trying to explain to a plantation owner why ending slavery would be a good thing.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062004#Comment_118062004

How about a cap on free legal aid, such as no more of it after your first three convictions? That'd save some taxpayer money that could be diverted towards prisons. Of course it would probably make half the legal profession redundant as well so there'd be plenty of opposition from that particularly vested interest group. Naturally of course they'd pretend to be screaming about the effect this would have on the rights of the poor scumbags and not the fact that the legal profession creams off a fortune from FLA.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062475#Comment_118062475

It would be more sensible to reign in the criminal fees charged by criminal lawyers in Ireland. The whole cozy relationship between courts, solicitors and barristers (and politicians) which make even a simple case unavailable to the average citizen. Wholesale reform to lower costs and speed up the process. Its not like this on the continent.

elperello

Having followed this thread from the beginning I have come to the conclusion that whatever about "Ireland" needing a new centre right party the right wing posters on Boards certainly do.

TaurenDruid

So you want to break the western model of criminal justice entirely (1), seeing us censured by the EU, the ECJ, the ECHR and probably the UN, for unspecified savings? That does not seem like a good idea, or one that has had any thought put into it, bar "I don't like criminals" (but who does).

(1) The principle that an accused person is innocent until proven guilty and is entitled to a defence. By professional lawyers, not the accused standing there saying "I didn't do it."

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118062198#Comment_118062198

This is so typcially Irish. We all must genuflect to our welfare class otherwise we are "punching down". Except i would raise the little point that other countries don't have this permanent welfare class in place, what makes ireland special? What makes us special is we are a soft touch where being on welfare pays more than lower paid work. You literally made the point yourself when you said they'd lose medical card etc.....YOU ARE MAKING MY POINT....welfare should NEVER pay more than low paid work.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118059755#Comment_118059755

What is this 48? Including usc, prsi. Isnt it over 50%?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067559#Comment_118067559

so we re the only country with long term unemployment issues?

with the current difficulties in filling many low paid jobs, in particular those on pup, is welfare truly enough to survive on, and is low paid work enough to also survive on?

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067648#Comment_118067648

40% tax kicks in at €35,300. USC at this level of income is 4.5% + 4% PRSI. The 8% USC doesn't kick in until €70,044.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067757#Comment_118067757

UK and Germany to name two. Good luck with thinking you can be long term unemployed. You will be harassed into or fir ed to work and or be on enough welfare to live on bread and water...

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118068240#Comment_118068240

this cant be true, we re clearly the only country having these issues! yup, we ve decided harassing people is definitely the best way of dealing with their issues!

Murph85

Wanderer. You speak a lot of truth... but this permanent welfare class here, wouldnt be tolerated in other countries. Skint Britain etc, give it a watch or Britain on benefits. I'd argue the system there is probably a bit too harsh . But we have the other extreme here..many of us pay bloody high tax and I'm not getting free apartments, transport, gp visits etc.. dont expect many to face decreasing living standards, working their ass off, to not look at a whole other large cohort. Living relatively no stress, no responsibility and for them to be paying for this BS! While Fintan who voted for fg twice and works for one of the big four, lives at home with mommy and doddy...

And if they cant bail him out with a deposit. He is screwed. Well he could emigrate... or house share into mid fifties when he inherits. Or he could live miles from work, drive or take turns third world public transport to dundrum or sandyford. Where the twenty four hour a day pyjama brigade live in free luxury house dundrum shopping centre etc...

You are right, they absolutely did not make the rules or decisions. That's on a bleeding heart victim culture of the irish left wing media and disgraceful politicians with no backbone, vision, leadership skills. Concerned only with concerned next budget and how rte will depict them ... But domt expect hard workers, not to begrudge many if those not working, hanging a higher living standard...

The irony that ffg and particularly fg. have primarily looked after the welfare classes , who despise them. Losing many disillusioned voters hands over fist... they are beholden to the welfare class and big business. No wonder the middle for the most part have had enough...