Ireland badly needs a new centre-right party - Here's my proposal

Fred Cryton

With FG moving to the centre-left on almost all issues and the PD's no longer in existence, there is a gaping and obvious hole in Ireland for a party with policies that would be considered centre-right in most Western countries. Here's my proposal for policy:

• Tax - Increase the threshold for paying higher rate of tax to €50k. Reduce higher rate of USC so that the highest marginal tax rate anyone pays is 42%, instead of 52%. However keep the lower rate of USC as lower earners pay too little in income tax. These changes would be self financing as the stimulus effect would increase revenue. Reduce capital gains tax from 33% to 20%. Again self-financing.
• Planning - Remove all planning powers from local authorities for all developments above a low threshold, eg for anything above 5 homes. People can still vote for councillors to keep the illusion of local democracy however the council would be stripped of their planning powers. This is the only way to defeat Nimbyism.
• Housing - Remove Part V requirements for developers to put 10% social in all developments. Replace with a requirement to provide 10% for cost rental for working people. Ban council from leasing for social homes. There would be complete segregation to reward people who work hard and save for a mortgage - council can build 100% social housing estates, which shouldn't be a problem as they are such great people right?
• Law and Order - Build two new prisons. Introduce mandatory sentences for various crimes, similar to mandatory caps on insurance payouts introduced recently. This would remove the problem of judges handing out ridiculously low sentences.
• Welfare - cap and reduce welfare budget over time. A vigorous "welfare to work program" would be initiated, with refusal of low paid work resulting in progressively lower welfare payouts over time.
• Environment - get rid of the nonsense that is carbon tax. No infrastructure or new factories should be halted for "environmental" reasons, unless they are actually polluting unreasonably. Import as much LNG from the US as we can get and build new LNG plants.
• Health - get rid of the nonsense that is Slaintecare and instead tackle the unions and middle management who are currently wasting the €20bn health budget, which is more than enough.
• Immigration - attract MORE skilled immigrants into Ireland, and attract fewer welfare shoppers and bogus asylum seekers.

Regardless of whether you agree with the policies above, how successful do you think they would be? I think very.

Cyclingtourist

Remember what happened to the PDs.

To answer your question, not very successful. I'm always suspicious of tax proposals that are allegedly 'self-financing', usually they are just 'self-serving'.

One thing I agree with you on is that FG aren't a right-of-centre party, they're a centre party.

SupplyandDemandZone

Nice little dig at those in social housing in there Fred as per. At least you are consistent

BorneTobyWilde

If any party was to'' come across'' as being for the people, they'd do very well.

Many subjects appeal to the masses, and would gather votes

dudley72

Two addition

Cap the children allowance to a maximum number of children. Probably max 3 and then after that no more children allowance

Social housing, rent taken at source. Same with all payments it is given to landlord

Pawwed Rig

The problem I have with right of centre parties generally is that they seem to be composed of God botherers and conspiracy theorists. I would be a fellow traveller on some of the items you mention but the others would make voting for such a party unpalatable.

We need a new party be it left or right leaning that will deal with immigration properly and massively tighten up our policies, not another new party looking for more immigration like all the current parties in power and opposition.

landofthetree

The only success this country even had has bern based on low corpo taxes and access to free trade via EU membership.

All our services are financed by the above.

Cutting taxes is the way forward but we must also cut services and handouts to NGOs.

Qaanaaq

What about Renua ? Look what happened to them. I’d say that indicates the demand for another party in that sector.

landofthetree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029988#Comment_118029988

I think it could emerge after the next government. 4 years of SF and the alphabet will finally see people wake up. 13 billion extra spent per year by government from 2016 to 2019 and GE 2020 was all about how we need to spent more. No talk of reform or where money is being wasted.

I just hope that it does emerge instead of people going bwck to vote for FG FG Greens Lab.

Thelonious Monk

There really are so many middle aged Journal.ie commenter type cranks on this site. Fred also hates cyclists of course.

Why do you guys even bother with these fantasies? No one would vote for this sh*t.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030091#Comment_118030091

I'm amazed nobody has banged on about 'woke' yet.

landofthetree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030091#Comment_118030091

People will vote for it after 4 years of SF and their alphabet friends.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213444/ireland-badly-needs-a-new-centre-right-party-heres-my-proposal

how successful do you think they would be? I think very.

Why isn't it happening then? PDs have been gone for over a decade.

Pawwed Rig

What are 'the alphabet'? PBP and SDs?

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029798#Comment_118029798

I'm confused, i said they were great people. Are you saying they're not great people? What are you implying exactly?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030371#Comment_118030371

Groups that actually manage to get votes.

Not something this party would manage.

magicbastarder

FG are centre left? this beer must be stronger than i thought.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030619#Comment_118030619

I would certainly say FG are well to the left of the policy platform OP is advocating

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030102#Comment_118030102

After 4 years of SF they will just vote back in FF and/or FG.

dotsman

FG are completely centre-left. And the reason for this is that there isn't nobody challenging them on centrist or centre-right issues (economically). So they assume that anybody in that area will vote for them. But the reality is most of those people just end up voting for nobody, as I did in the last election (first time not voting as I could not bring myself to put a number next to any candidate in my constituency. As for the PD's - they got slaughtered because they were the minority party in the coalition going in to the election where everybody was voting for the main parties (much the same with Labour after them)

As for the OP's proposal. I would absolutely vote for such a party; not because I may necessarily agree with every minute detail, but it would certainly be a drastic improvement on the current $hite and would be in the same general area as my views.

With regards the tax proposals, I think the above would need to be balanced with an additional wealth tax brought in on income over circa 120K for single/180K for couple of 10%, along with an additional 1% on all assets over 2 million. However, I would call this a "patronage" rather than a "tax". Not because I am putting spin on it, but would be calling it as it is. Rather than the current mantra of "hating the rich", or "make the rich pay more", this patronage would be very much a recognition of how much the wealthy contribute to society. I would even bring in a law stating that at the end of every year (or around the time of the budget), every TD in Dail Eireann must, one-by-one, stand up and say "thank you very much for your patronage of this country" and along with any tax certs, anyone paying this patronage would receive a "thank you card" on behalf of Dail Eireann and the country. Finally, this money would not be for general (unionised) expenditure, but would be put to use delivering things for this country that everyone (rich and poor) can benefit from - even simple things like street, building and park beautification etc.

Which brings me to the next point about welfare. For me, this is simple. Get rid of the 101 different benefits and roll them into a few. The main one being jobseekers. When one loses their job, there would be a single payment that would pay 2/3 of the average salary the person received over the past 3 years and that's it. No add-ons regarding housing, medical, children etc. This is recalculated every year on the anniversary of first receiving the payment. The payment would be treated exactly like income and taxed as normal. As you can see, it would keep reducing every year, with the floor being 2/3 of minimum wage. This would help with a lot of issues regarding welfare, such as providing enough for the middle-high income earner who, today, has their income drastically cut when they lose their job (punishing them severely, especially when they have contributed the most, are the least likeliest to end up on welfare, and are the least likeliest to stay on welfare for too long). It would ensure that, even if someone was happy with their welfare payment, they would know that in the next year or the year after, they wouldn't be so they would need to refocus and get back to work soon. It also ensures that nobody is ever better off on welfare than they are working. Finally, it also ensures that nobody would ever go on welfare long-term or for life.

What about those the just can't find a job? Well, that is where the above patronage comes in to it. Every community would have a local "public amenities service" that would offer employment to lot of people, mainly unskilled minimum wage jobs, but also some skilled jobs, payed at market rates (and offering apprenticeships for those who are unskilled to learn new skills and level up). Their job would be to go street to street, park to park etc, and completely overhauling them one by one to make them beautiful, rather than the ugly, cheap and rundown streets that we have. For each street, they would work quickly down the street completely repaving the footpath with durable, aesthetically pleasing stone, re-doing the tarmac etc on the road, painting road markings, planting trees, cleaning/repainting/replacing signposts and poles etc, while also carrying out aesthetic repairs to the front of every building on the street (painting, windows, door entrances, railings etc), where the building owner pays for the materials, but the labour is carried out for free. everything would be done to a very high standard (unusual for Ireland!), and anybody doing a $hite job simply being let go. As well as employing huge numbers in this, it would also employ a large number of people in locations dotted around the countries who would be making all the materials - park benches, railings, fencing, sign posts, flower pots as well as nurseries for all the plants. Again, this would provide jobs from unskilled, to apprenticeships and skilled labour in woodwork, metalwork, landscaping/horticulture etc. Not only would all of this be relatively cost effective (as it would drastically cut the welfare bill) with the small gap in finances being funded by the patronage, but would result in A) the entire of society benefiting from it, B) zero medium/long term unemployment and C) greatly improve the situation with regards antisocial behaviour, where many of the people today being the ones who vandalise, damage public amenities etc being the very ones who would end up working on repairing/cleaning/replacing and, hopefully, for a significant chunk of them, taking a lot of pride in their work and not wanting to see it defaced/damaged.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030869#Comment_118030869

Yeah.

fantasy nonsense.

there are already enough workers doing all of that.

end of the road

the op's party would just be another failure party, a laughing stock like all of the other similar ones suggested on here over the years.

Snugbugrug28

I'm not sure you dreams and ideas are compatible with a housing crisis, impending stagflation and one if the highest national debts in the world.

I would vote for it as it would annoy you EOTR

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031003#Comment_118031003

There's nobody doing any of that.

there are hundreds of thousands of able-bodied people not working in Ireland. While our public areas are fuckin embarrassing.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031052#Comment_118031052

won't annoy me as it will never get into power.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031062#Comment_118031062

council workers are doing that stuff, as are painting companies, cleaning companies, etc.

hundreds of thousands of able bodied people not working? not in this country anyway.

Zaph

A thank you card an a TD standing up in the Dail to thank me for relieving me of an extra 10% of my income and dressing it up with some bullsh*t name? Seriously? Not that there's any danger of me being hit for it, but if I was I'd be around to the my nearest TD's constituency office to shove that card somewhere they'd rather I didn't. I've never heard such patronising nonsense in all my life.

Samson1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213444/ireland-badly-needs-a-new-centre-right-party-heres-my-proposal

I think it says all about this site that the "Thanks" button for your initial post does not work. It does for all the other posts on the page.

In other words, it is impossible to show the real level of support for your proposal.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031082#Comment_118031082

Not sure where you think they are doing that, but would you mind sending them to Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford as well as all the towns and villages in the country?

As for the hundreds of thousands of able-bodied workers - yes, absolutely in this country. Immediately prior to the pandemic, there were over two hundred thousand people claiming jobseekers. That figure does not include the many other people who are on other benefits and not working (and not counted as "unemployed".

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031120#Comment_118031120

Well, that's clearly the difference between you and those that earn high salaries. I don't mind paying tax - as long as it is being used to actually provide me, and the rest of society with a service and I am not being given abuse by TDs and their supporters, and been made out to be some sort of scapegoat for their bull$hit fantasies. Personally, I would be proud to pay such a patronage for my country, if it was being spent in such a way and not used to buy votes from unions or to play left-wing ping-pong with SF and friends. And I know many on similar salaries who would agree.

It's not about "patronising". it is about forcing every TD to shut the fcuk up about "the rich bogeymen who don't contribute". Remember, the top 5% pay almost 55% of all taxation despite earning only 22.7% of the income. Even in EU terms, we are a high-income tax country for high-earners (but a low income-tax country for low earners).

dotsman

Just to follow up, you might find this an interesting read...

Here are some relevant quotes...

The study found that 24 per cent of Ireland’s high earners said they had “some difficulty” making ends meet, 3 per cent had “difficulty” and 1 per cent had “great difficulty”, resulting in a total of 28 per cent.

Younger high earners in Ireland are more concerned about their ability to buy a house, plan a family and settle down, when compared with their European counterparts, Tasc said.

Despite this, Tasc states that the highest earners in Ireland do not want to pay less tax on their earnings.

The report states that higher earners “overwhelmingly” want to see tax revenue being used by the Government to ensure universal access to high quality public services, especially in education and health.

Zaph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031157#Comment_118031157

I've no problem with those who are earning more, paying more. And if I was in that bracket I would fully expect to be paying more tax, it's the right thing to do. But to expect to get a thank you card and a public thanks for paying tax, and you can call it what you like but it's tax, is just silly fantasy stuff altogether.

pjohnson

I missed who pays for the thank you cards.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031082#Comment_118031082

There are over 42,000 builders on the Live Register.

Just think about that, in the middle of a housing crisis, with labour shortages.

See Table 5 here

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregisterseptember2021/

Geuze

A good political party, centre-left, or centre-right, would be suggesting we help the 42,000 builders on the Live Register to sign off the Live Register, and move into employment building houses.

Geuze

Simple principle on income tax - nobody, ever, should face a marginal income tax in excess of 50%.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032129#Comment_118032129

How many of those lads are doing cash jobs?

I've met people who have only worked cash for decades.

joseywhales

I disagree with almost every point in the op but if this party proposes a couple of nuclear reactors and uranium mining in donegal to resolve this energy crisis, then I'll hold my nose.

elperello

A new party is an interesting proposition and as a democrat I would have no problem with any legitimate grouping putting candidates forward for election.

However, it's a long hard road trying to set up a new party. The time and energy required both at national and local level make the task daunting for any but the most dedicated.

Would you go for council seats first and try to build up a profile or go straight into the bearpit of a general election?

How many seats could a party as suggested expect to win? Would other parties consider them as coalition partners?

Anyone with an interest in politics will have a fair idea of the lie of the land politically in their own constituency.

As an exercise I suggest that people ask themselves how a new centre right party would do in the area you know best.

Geuze

Of course there shouldn't need to be a new party.

FG should be the centre-right party.

Maybe if SF get into the next Govt, FG will react by moving back to being a centre-right party.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029882#Comment_118029882

The key issue here is not with the founding leadership of such a party, who may well be quite reasonable, but the type of activist such parties tend to attract. The terms 'right wing' and 'conservative' seem to be catnip to every crank and mentalist going, and they will be a total turnoff for the mainstream right-leaning voters the party is looking to attract.

Could anyone honestly imagine ANY of the current parties coming into this budget saying "We're cutting all welfare payments and giving the people who wake up and work every day something meaningful".. of course not.

Instead those like myself got about e112 euro in tax reductions while base welfare payments went up e250 for the year(plus Fuel and all the rest).

Rinse and repeat year after year.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032456#Comment_118032456

Rinse and repeat year after year.

Inevitably. Until you and kindred spirits start voting for somebody else in significant numbers...

Jinglejangle69

Ivan yeates was saying the other day at the end of the day no matter what government there is things will stay the same.

He learned that when he was in FG and was told by various people.

Civil servants give the advice and make the decisions, and thinking a party can come in and change things drastically is fantasy.

Murph85

There is talk about renua and the pds. Very different times and the abortion issue is done. Admittedly so are renua. Any party here would have to deal with the very left wing media, that would brand an actual centreist party as right wing nazis!

Would agree with everything in the op. Open goal here for someone with the balls to do it...

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032745#Comment_118032745

So the govt are in incapable of governing? Perhaps it is time FFG moved over if that's the latest excuse.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031011#Comment_118031011

You mean the kind of parties that every other country has? . Like the largest party in the uk?

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032817#Comment_118032817

I think we have more empathy here. The Tories work in the UK because there is an acceptance among the population that some people are better and more deserving than others. We don't really have that here so dont like to see poorer people screwed over.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032164#Comment_118032164

15 years minimum. That's five years to railroad planning permission and legal challenges though the courts and ten years of on-time on-budget construction. All of which are complete fantasies. And IIRC the uranium in Donegal is mainly in granite which isn't cheap or easy to extract. And our energy usage patterns are far too varied to allow nuclear without lots and lots of peaking plant.

How would you propose to keep the lights on through all those election cycles ?