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Ireland badly needs a new centre-right party - Here's my proposal

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    FF are center left, FG are centrist at most. SF are even further left. Greens and SD are left....

    We have no parties on the right.

    Why do people keep saying FF and FG are right-wing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The majority of people pay taxes and work.

    Are you trying to tell me the majority of people in this bracket are happier that they pay higher taxes to fund a lucrative welfare system, so they can earn paltry wages which are supposed to cover housing, healthcare and quality of life?.

    I have no issue with people on benefit welfare payments getting a decent return or an increase but theres 1000s of people in this country pulling e500-700 a week in payments and getting bumped up housing lists because they have had a few kids.

    That money is coming from the taxpayers pocket, the ones who are expected to work for less and also try to survive on it in every sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    as we d say, any actual solid data, i.e. proof, for any of that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Because the classification is set by the Irish Times.

    FF were always a party of the left, that they were not ideologically pure Lenin left seems to mean to some that they were right wing .


    Different shades of left



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I'll vote for you OP.

    I feel like im being sucked dry through taxes.

    Im looking at relatives sooo much better off me living on the tit of the state, yet i am supposedly in the top 10% of earners.

    More like the top 10% of workers to be milked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,986 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Has been a while since conservative meant safe. Conservative and right wing is now seen as Trump, Brexit, Boris and LePen. That is not smearing by the Left that is out and out self sabotage. None of that screams safe or steady.


    Even before the above conservatives have really struggled on the social side of things since they have a strong tendency to be linked to religious rules and opposition to LGBT rights, the failed war on drugs. Obviously a lot of these things are from abroad but people have the news and parties in different countries link up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,434 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    the idea we need a party who will promote even more of this while enforcing class division through access to housing constraints is a very dystopian desire to have for a country.

    Nevertheless it's what the OP wants. Is he not entitled to want what he wants and to deem that none of the current parties is offering it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Tax - Increase the threshold for paying higher rate of tax to €50k. Reduce higher rate of USC so that the highest marginal tax rate anyone pays is 42%, instead of 52%. However keep the lower rate of USC as lower earners pay too little in income tax. These changes would be self financing as the stimulus effect would increase revenue. Reduce capital gains tax from 33% to 20%. Again self-financing

    For anyone who thinks this is radical in terms of tax, this would simply move us to where the UK is right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    hahahaha, some conservatives are fcuking mental, theres no conspiracy of the msm! your brain is making it up!

    economic ideologies have shifted to the right over the decades, on both the political left and right, this is ultimately where the confusion is occurring

    so no actually, its different shades of right!

    yes, these primarily right leaning political and economic ideologies mean, taxation has been moved away from capital and wealth, and towards labour and consumption, hence why you ve been getting fcuked, and fcuked nicely to, but the value of your assets have been doing good in all of this, so, happy days! oh and those on welfare have had virtually fcuk all to do with that!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,758 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I think it is perception if a party is 'soft right or middle of the road' they can hedge their bets a bit.

    It amuses me that the mention of 'right' always seems to conjure up images of 'evil' in online debates - or print media. And the 'left' are viewed to be the crowd that are hip and with it.

    Probably the most balance government of the would be something like a PD's equivalent with one of FF /FG - with a Labour/SD and the Greens thrown in. They could keep each other in check.

    I honestly often wonder why Ireland bothers having Elections - there is no extreme left or right and any extremes become centrist fairly quick. It will be interesting to see what SF do if they do get into government. As it will likely have to be a coalition. So most of their leftist tendencies will have to be tempered.


    Unless they go for a left wing coalition - PBP - Socialist Party and so on.

    But I just don't see it happening as I doubt the PBP, Socialist Party will ever have sufficient numbers.

    SF could be forced to go more left of centre with time and fill the SD/Labour void.

    -

    Isn't this Renua crowd supposed to be the new more right wing party


    Describing itself as 'socially conservative'.

    In the 2020 GE Renua had 11 candidates none were elected and they only got  socially conservative party 5473 first preference votes.

    --

    It seems Ireland just does not want a new Centre Right Wing Party who even leans slightly more right - I wonder is it perception though. Conservatism is viewed as backward. No thought about various shades of conservatism. On the Right people wear ties, suits - and are normally highly educated. This is a hard one to market to the masses in this day and age - which can come across as 'cold/distant. You would never see a TD of a party leaning right with a Mick Wallace/Ming haircut. Plus with casual clothes - such as Boyd-Barrett's denim shirt or Mick's jeans.

    The wearing of a tie seems to be an anathema these days for some political persuasions in the Dail - as it goes against the easy going style of the left. Even SF potential future leaders Pearse Doherty/Eoin O'Broin do not wear a tie. And they are not supposed to be as left wing as the PBP - Social Party etc.

    The main issue about any new centre right party - they would have to make the tie seem trendy again. As anyone thought about dickiebows? Less cold and threatening than a tie (especially if bright coloured) but screams intellectual and a bit different to the status quo.

    A suit and tie (top button of shirt closed) still echoes the Anglo Irish Bank fiasco etc to many. Cold standoffish, big business etc. IMO the coloured dickie bow, is the way to go for any new centre right party.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    We're all aware of you're zealous attitudes when it comes to markets



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    hahaha, you gotta love conservatives again! yup markets will be a critical part of getting us out of our current mess!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    But it's also their voters paying in far more than their fair share in taxes and getting nothing back out of the system. 

    Nothing back out of the system? Our taxes pay for healthcare (which absolutely needs to be improved, yes, but vested interests are doing their best to shaft Sláintecare!) - and even the ones on the top VHI plan benefitted from the covid vaccination programme! - existing and new infrastructure including roads and public transport, the Gardaí and courts, and so much more, not least of which is the education system.

    Don't have kids going to school? You still benefit! Much better to be surrounded by educated and socialised people than the alternative!

    Did she really? If you were a stockbroker living in Surrey - yes. If you lived north of the M25? Not so much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    The only way some new party would succeed would be if it had an Elon Musk / Barack Obama type leader that is so smart and charismatic they carry the whole party, a lot of people when they go to vote are just voting for a party and not necessarily the local candidate, SF proved this in the last election.

    Plus realistically a new party would need to do some Cambridge Analytica type shenanigans to ever win a majority, a lot of Irish people are happier with the devil they know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    The value of my assets are no near as good as the value of the €500k house my cousin lives in for life and neither herself or her boyfriend have never paid a penny tax in their lives. Well she did tell me she paid tax when she worked in Dunnes for a week in 2001. Oh and she keeps telling me she pays vat. Oh and a €3.50 prescription charge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,434 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    a lot of Irish people are happier with the devil they know.

    Well centrist/right-leaning ones are. There's always been churn among parties on the left but the other side seems intent on sticking with FF & FG until the end of time...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    effectively the only ones paying any tax worth mentioning here, are the mid to high and high earners... there is as good as no lpt. You can now drive virtually for free with an electric car, after you have paid thousands in vat and vrt of course...

    That graph from 2013 is an absolute disgrace! To say Ireland is right wing , when ffg have been ruling the country for nearly a hundred years ! Friends of big business for sure!

    Not friends of the little man, even if he or she is on 200k !



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yup, so the big question is, why is the price of property so high? answer, because of policies that have been enacted, and still are, to continually push them up, i.e. the fundamental basis of modern political and economic ideologies, of both the political left and right! but no, its clearly to do with the lazy welfare classes!!!! oh and yea, they do actually pay consumption taxes, and yes, you are paying far more taxes than them, as explained earlier, taxation under these ideologies, has been slowly moving away from capital and wealth, which is primarily held in the value of assets, such as property etc, and moved towards labour and consumption, i.e. why you ve been paying more taxes than them, but again, all of these issues are clearly their fault!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    You are not convincing any tax payers out there I dare say.

    Do you think perhaps people who dont pay taxes and get far more than the people who do pay lots of taxes is a bit off?

    I just had to shell out €1500 for my commuter ticket, including a tax rebate on it.

    My cousin and her husband get the same ticket for nothing. And they dont even commute.

    So so many example of that kind of thing.

    To answer your question the price of property is so high (only to tax payers mind you) is that way because government brought in rent controls.

    The spiral from there and the never ending legislation has made rents and availability so bad that people are desperate to get out of the rental trap.

    So they are bidding obscene sums on properties that are not worth that so as not top pay rents that keep going up.

    Then what happens, the councils bid against them and bid up those poperties even higher. Using the poor tax payers own money to fcuk them over at every chance they get.



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    If you think you can find enough people that believe in your BS, then start one and stop sitting your ass thinking about it! I very much doubt you could be bothered in reality as it would require actual work and even if you did you'd fail miserably.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Sonde like a customer for CAB - 500k house with no visible means of support. I very much doubt that is even close to the real story.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    And you think for a minute that you will convince Irish voters that being where the UK is right now is a good thing.... they are not capable of paying down their national debt and the average gap per capita is 40% lower than Ireland.... Irish voters just aren't that dumb.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    once again, the falls guys are ultimately the working taxpayers, this is a fundamental part of modern political and economic ideologies, as explained! as always, if you think welfare is what its cracked up to be, try it for a while, you might be surprised! again, yes, working taxpayers are getting screwed, and big time in all of this, at some stage, we re gonna have to stand up and say enough, and stop pointing the finger at the usual suspects, i.e. welfare classes, foreigners etc etc etc, as it is in fact these fundamental ideologies being enacted by both the political left and right.

    once again, the price of property has truly taken off since the introduction of these political and economic ideologies, which began globally in the 70's and 80's, ireland was a little latter into this game, ultimately when we joined the euro, and off we went........ this is what we call a primarily fire sector lead economy(finance, insurance and real estate), of which we re still experiencing. yes you are correct, this approach to economics and politics has been driven from within our political systems and institutions, on both the left and right, oh and credit has been the form of money of choice in doing so, that comes from private sector financial institutions, we call these banks! graph,

    once again, included!

    again, the whole point of these ideologies is to fcuk you over, and thats how its being done, i.e. nothing to be doing with welfare classes and the scary foreigners etc etc!



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,274 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    These kind of threads are really amusing.... you got people saying Ireland needs this or that.... just so long as they don't have to lift a figure to make it happen, which of course in reality means that they are really not a believer either, because if they were they'd do something more that tapping a keyboard.

    You think Ireland needs a new party - start one and see how far you get.... There is a very good reason why none of these new parties set up over the last few decades have failed miserably - the majority of Irish voters are not interested in them.

    You think Ireland needs a new party, then stop talking about it and go make it happen.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Let us make voting great again LUMVGA. On a serious note I think the next election will be the first time I will not use my vote in over 20 years. I have become so disillusioned with politics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    I must have imagined all the "conservative"/ Iona bots with their newspapers columns and radio airtime



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,758 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I think you have, the only time they got any airtime was in the abortion referendum.

    Besides that they are a non-entity. You only have to look at boards.ie to see it is very left leaning. Either centre left - further left. Any ounce of mention of anything approaching 'the right' is jumped on by zealous posters.

    Ireland has a very middle of the road benign sort of politics compared to many countries,

    Irish political culture is far removed from America for example - much more right wing than Ireland - by and large. Which is why many Irish people as shown on boards.ie are in hysteria over American politics. They are fascinated by it's machinations because it is not like Ireland politically at all. Yet many people feel they have a 'connection' to it which is an odd dichotomy.

    Continental Europe is another who has extreme right v left politics but such countries are rarely discussed on boards.ie as there is not the same 'connection'.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    The only time they got airtime was during the referendum? You must not consume any media in this country then.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    You do realize how much a beand new council house is worth if an ordinary tax payer was to pay for it dont you?

    There are plenty being given out now worth even more than that.



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