"Green" policies are destroying this country

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966030#Comment_117966030

All car manufacturers did lie, just VW went to the US and the US car companies funded against them as they grew market share, the software was made by Bosch(I think) who supply all car manufacturers, if you google you will find they all done the same

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966013#Comment_117966013

The plan I heard at an event many many years ago by an Irish company and was been supported by Europe at the time, not sure what happened it

European super grid, large wind farms in the North Sea along with solar panel in the med. this would also have other supplies from each country

This combined with smart meter and the plan was to have balanced grid, no more of these peaks and dips…..like they explained in uk that eveyone is watching that Baking show and at break turn on kettle and they have a peak for a min, this is very hard on grid so make it cheaper not to turn on kettle at break etc

Electrci cars would be connected at night to charge but if a peak could have electricity sucked out if connected at office location during work hours etc…..in terms of recycling if you have a couple of million existing wind turbine and you want a replacement I am sure some company can make it, throwing hands up in air and saying they are obsolete shouldn’t happen

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965608#Comment_117965608

What about, what about… and going backwards are not options that are acceptable to the majority of voters. And that is what it comes down to, politicians do what will get them elected and addressing climate issues is what is required and what will be required for the foreseeable future.

Stamping your feet and shouting what about… what about is kindergarten behavior, so either come up with practical, applicable solutions or expect others to conclude that you are the one exhibiting the behavior you are attributing to others.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966046#Comment_117966046

This is a stunning post, you seem to be outlining the problem, how it is backed by science, has escalated and yet seem to think nothing should be done or that all of the people involved in this are not acting in good faith?

A really bizarre post. It's 2.24am here, maybe I'll read it tomorrow after I've slept and it will make sense in some way.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966160#Comment_117966160

People can see the disaster, get told about it, then still complain when the government tries to tackle it.

You have the “diesel till I die crows” etc etc. I would prefer to leave a better world for my kids than the one I came into if possible. Not leave a **** hole that they can’t have a proper life in

dubdaymo

Yes, climate change HAS become a religion and religion brings its share of fanatics (XR, Insulate Britain, Thornberg) and a witch hunt of those who don't go along with their "infallible" beliefs.

Yes, OP, gullible is the right description. As proven during Covid the Irish believed every word that came out of the mouth of an egomaniac who ruled the country based on the wildly speculative and totally inaccurate predictions of his snake oil fortune teller going under the grand title of "Chair of the Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group".

The majority of the country will not have experienced long power cuts before.

When their phones are suddenly not working, their Internet idle, no Facebook, no Instagram, no Twitter, no Netflix, food decaying in their fridges, no heat, not to mention not being able to even boil a kettle I hope they will finally come to understanding the folly of replacing proven and reliable generating technology by a system that only works when the wind blows.

No human beings have the power to foretell the future, no human beings have the power to stop the forces of Nature - no matter how many diplomas they have, no matter how many letters after their name or whatever grand titles they hold.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965961#Comment_117965961

yeah, this 'pastureland is better for the climate than woodlands' trope has taken off recently. i believe in large part through discounting methane.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966355#Comment_117966355

Bit of cop on now, if you want to ignore intelligent people all over the world who are predicting this then off you go, you should also ignore teh increase in climate disasters etc

Not sure why you think you should insult the intelligence Irish people because you have a different opinion?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966355#Comment_117966355

No human beings have the power to foretell the future, no human beings have the power to stop the forces of Nature - no matter how many diplomas they have, no matter how many letters after their name or whatever grand titles they hold.

The increasing life expectancy over the last couple of hundred years, plus the figures of those who have recovered from previously considered terminal illnesses destroys this nonsensical way of thinking.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966160#Comment_117966160

wouldnt worry too much about this poster, theyve been posting debunked beliefs about environmental issues since forever

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962872#Comment_117962872

That's my biggest fear about Nuclear. I think the actual technology is safer than it has ever been, but I would not trust anyone connected with an Irish Government to build and run it.

It would be millions of billions of trillions of Euro over budget, the bricks would be made from micra and the foundations based on lumps of pyrite ...... all while no one in particular had any specific responsibility for it.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966136#Comment_117966136

The reality of that can be seen in wind turbine output on May 1st 2021 when there was little wind anywhere across NorthWest Europe and solar power is irrelevant after sunset (grid balancing needed due to sudden dip in output, that's why they have to put in batteries to smooth out dips until coal and gas plants can be bought online) and for 2 months of the year during Northern hemisphere Winter season (look at Germany) solar is irrelevant. The continental European grid has narrowly avoided serious outages several times last year, it is already stretched and Germany has been shutting down coal and nuclear power. Irish authorities are creating a 500KM interconnector to France to avail of nuclear power. Remember peak demand for electricity happens in Winter and very often we get severe cold fronts hanging over much of Western Europe.

You gave an analogy of the kettle during the ad break, guess what will happen with electric cars (BEV). It takes 30 minutes to fast charge a car, you arrive at a charging station all the chargers are occupied, you wait at minimum 30 minutes or even longer for the people in front of you to charge which means an hour or more hanging around the forecourt. Since most of your travels are commuting, you decide to charge at home, so you arrive home at 6:30 - 7 PM and plug in the car to charge overnight ready for the next day, so does everyone else . . . nope that's not going to happen, that's why we have smart meters to reduce demand.

• E-car chargers will turn off to prevent blackouts

Remember European governments goals by 2030 are to shift the majority of the population from consuming primary energy sources (oil,gas,coal,turf) to secondary source (electricity) and the same plan is being imposed across European countries who are also phasing out the old coal and nuclear plants so there is no reserve in the system.

• 70% random energy
• just under ~1 million BEVs
• ~400,000 heat pumps

This is what needs to happen to avoid future substantial economic disruption due to the lack of electricity.

• An immediate suspension by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities (CRU) till further notice of Renewable Electricity Support System auction (RESS) auctions. If wind turbine or solar panel operators want to build new sites, let them do so without guaranteed subsidies.
• An "intermittentcy surcharge" to be imposed on wind and solar power, so that they pay the cost of providing standby power.
• A rule insisting that all new wind and solar plants include sufficient storage to supply nameplate capacity for, say, one week.
• Abolition of carbon pricing, which has distorted market mechanisms, and is largely responsible across Europe for the massive rise in energy prices this year.
• Immediate suspension of moves to electric cars and heat pumps.
• Abandoning strategic plans which rely heavily on imported power, and replacement with plans which prioritise the provision of sufficient, reliable home grown power.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966355#Comment_117966355

this post is a marvelous example of self refuting nonsense

‘no human can forecast the future’

encased in a rant about how people will feel in a future where x happens because of y

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966441#Comment_117966441

You are completely ignoring the issues created by fossil fuel use.

Your argument would have been similar to telling people to continue smoking irrespective of the known consequences just so as to not impact the tax revenue that came from tobacco sales.

Can you answer the following?

• Do you believe there are issues with the use of fossil fuels which will significantly impact the climate and the quality of life of people in the near future?
• How do you propose to limit this potential impact?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965657#Comment_117965657

The new narrative? No you should confront and report your a$$hole neighbour

and the fact that your neighbour is killing prostitutes doesn’t make it ok for you to go around kicking dogs

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966441#Comment_117966441

Why are subsidies for renewable energy bad but you never mention the trillions that fossil fuels get in subsidies all the time?

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966441#Comment_117966441

The majority of electric cars will be charged during the night to balance the grid at night, the fast charger during the day can be included in capacity and can be slowly ramped up and down as people with electric cars will tell you, plugging into a 50kWh doesn’t mean you get 50kWh….it will go up and down based on supply but also battery temp etc….for slow charging the cars are all on timers and with a smart meter you could be told what time to start/stop at night and with the new ranges people don’t need to charge every night….they offer cheaper charging even now on a Saturday during the day when requirements are low…..

dudley72

I am also saying electric cars are not for everyone, in some cases diesel should be the choice, not just the automatic choice for everyone like happened for years

Akrasia

If we fail to act, Climate change will make everything more much expensive. Anything we can do to prevent additional warming will be cheaper in the long run than having to rebuild everything from scratch to try (at no guarantee of success) to adapt to the new rapidly changing climate

government borrowing, by definition affects future tax payers, so we need to weigh up the cost to future citizens of action vs inaction

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966492#Comment_117966492

Yep. Right now a lot of our energy generation capacity is simply wasted. BEVs can tap into this wasted potential for net zero cost to the peak grid demand

Sierra Oscar

The energy crisis in Europe is going to be profound this winter and into the next. I suspect there will be a clamour in various countries for Government’s to step in and put a cap on price increases.

The only way to achieve this will be to suspend carbon taxes. Watch this space I reckon. Probably be floated as a temporary measure.

There is a growing media frenzy over 15-20% increase in consumer energy costs. It’s worth bearing in mind that wholesale prices are up 300% on last year and trending upwards. There are potentially far more severe consumer price increases to come.

SEPT 23 1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966519#Comment_117966519

1500%

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966519#Comment_117966519

It would be much better for governments to increase carbon taxes and give people a helicopter payment to offset those increases

Carbon taxes are not about generating income, they’re about disincentives for burning carbon

if carbon taxes were projected to be 1000 per capita and the government gave a 1k per capita payment to every family to offset this, many families would spend that money on energy efficiency improvements while almost everyone would also reduce wasteful carbon emissions to avoid the tax

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966563#Comment_117966563

absolutely agree, pup payments have more or less proven, giving citizens money directly is far more beneficial to all, in particular the economy itself

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966394#Comment_117966394

Methane form livestock isn't as big an issue as there is a natural methane cycle, there is no no real carbon cycle...

Also what the cows consume is an issue but that is mainly stateside with corn raised cows

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966563#Comment_117966563

If the government fixed the existing seai grant system it might help, at the moment the money just goes into the back pocket of the contractor and the buyer sees no benefit, it’s stupid system

A heat pump costs 2k average but to install into a retrofit Is 10k after the grant, so the contracter is taking something close to 13-15 per installation, f**king crazy

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966519#Comment_117966519

Suspending carbon tax should be ruled out straight away, if money has to be invested then it should be into green initiatives and not just ploughing money into dead technology

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966563#Comment_117966563

You don’t need to explain carbon taxes to me. I know their intended purpose in terms of reshaping the market.

The reality is there is now a huge imbalance in the European energy market. A perfect storm has brewed whereby demand is way above what was forecast, reliability and availability of renewables is way below what was forecasted and demand for traditional fuel mixes is up - while at the same time facing heavier and heavier taxing.

I suspect we will see large investment in renewables being floated alongside relief on carbon taxes to bridge the gap and close the imbalance in the short term.

The crisis on the electricity grid in Europe is so bad that distributors are finding it increasingly difficult to maintain their target frequencies on their respective networks. That is just totally unheard of. If you think people are angry now, wait until electrical appliances in their homes start being damaged as a result of an unstable grid.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966610#Comment_117966610

A lot of over reaction here, the world is not going to end, devices are not going to start exploding etc etc

the grid are highly monitored now and the option to shut them down will be taken before that and that is the right option, the wastage of electricity in homes daily is incredible, a couple of cheap smart plugs to switch on/off devices etc would be a decent investment…..solar panel on roofs etc etc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211251/green-policies-are-destroying-this-country

to think little Ireland can save the world, meanwhile China is opening a dozen coal powered plants in 2021 alone

It's like being told you can't fish from the shore with a rod and line while 5km offshore a ship is hoovering entire shoals from the sea bed.

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966607#Comment_117966607

Totally understand where you are coming from, but as we’ve seen already with investment in renewables it takes time for such investment to work through the market and impact consumers - i.e years. Meanwhile, consumers could see their electricity bills double by the new year (if they follow wholesale prices they’ll at least triple). If Government’s need to find immediate relief, where do you think they’ll look?

Just my 2 cents anyway. Maybe the market will sort itself out.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966631#Comment_117966631

all important to remember, the abilities of the market to be able to provide us with all our needs is clearly untrue, we must be mature now and accept this, even though markets will need to play a critical part in trying to do so, but not entirely

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966627#Comment_117966627

The option to avoid this is rolling blackouts of course. They’ll be very popular politically at the height of winter across Europe, right?!

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966648#Comment_117966648

It’s not like people haven’t been warned, global warming was announced in what the 80s?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966631#Comment_117966631

If it's left to the market to sort itself out, it will end in Armageddon with companies buying out smaller operators, heavily utilising lobbyists and grabbing what they can to ensure they get to maximise what they can before there is nothing left.

The airline industry reacted to the Covid impact on their business by looking for government handouts. Previously we've seen the financial industry do the same.

This conversation is not even an ordinary 'product life cycle' market one and how the changing supply chain or customer focus may impact an industry. There is active damage being done with this ongoing industry and that should be the primary focus of Governments because it is going to be so impactful.

Richard Hillman

We think the little savings in energy consumption will inspire shithole countries to saving the planet.

Eamon Ryan and Roderick O'Gorman have these Notions that think that people in places like Nigeria, Russia, Phillipines, Brazil, Indonesia will just adapt to the Euro-Western Way of reducing your quality of life to save the planet.

I'll tell you right now it won't effing happen. If the leaders of any of these countries start introducing carbon taxes, driving up petrol prices, electricity shortages etc, it ain't going to be a strongly worded letter being sent, it's military coups and lynch mobs.

Massive countries like Nigeria, Congo, Bangladesh, parts of India etc are barely functioning, let alone going to reduce their carbon footprint. If workers are not able to go work because of the price costs of buses or driving cars or their moped to work, it will be off to the local politicians office to beat the crap out of them.

The Roddy O'Gormans, Eamon Ryan's of this world do not understand the world outside of Renelagh and Phibsborough.

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966673#Comment_117966673

Eamon Ryan wouldn't know the real world if it hit him in the face. He's better off sticking to cleaning his glasses with his Covid mask. Green policies are rubbish.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966673#Comment_117966673

ireland isnt that bad, i certainly wouldnt call it a sh1thole

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966673#Comment_117966673

So don't try anything, and let the whole thing play out whatever the impact on the billions on the planet would be your approach would that be fair to say?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966607#Comment_117966607

By "dead technology" you mean proven technology that provides the energy we need as opposed to ploughing more money into initiatives for eco-grift

But you're right, with the climate disaster-crisis-holocaust upon us we should be investing in nuclear to save the planet, because saving the planet is the priority here, yeah?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966771#Comment_117966771

But you're right, with the climate disaster-crisis-holocaust upon us we should be investing in nuclear to save the planet, because saving the planet is the priority here, yeah?

Is that a serious question?

Johnlynch1970

who in their right mind voted for these lunatics

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966817#Comment_117966817

People with some concept of forward planning I'd say.

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966771#Comment_117966771

What's this "saving the planet" nonsense? The planet will be fine. We are a dot on the planet's existence, it will be still here in millions of years when we are long gone. Saving the planet, give me a frecking break.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966673#Comment_117966673

We think the little savings in energy consumption will inspire shithole countries to saving the planet.

Exactly. It's like expecting Afghanistan to become a democratic secular state off the example of the UK. If anything some states will look to those in the West and do the complete opposite. Like eastern European countries saying they're not having any of that lgbt political stuff.

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966817#Comment_117966817

It will the D4 luverlie types who can afford the solar panels, the heat regen systems, the top of the line home insulation projects all the while the 4 ton SUV is used to transport Tarquin and Sorcha to and from private school daily in between the family ski trips to Chamonix without a hint of self awareness,

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966851#Comment_117966851

they're not having any of that lgbt political stuff.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you gay?

Do you think the ability to have freedom to have a relationship with who you choose to, even if they are of the same gender as you is 'political stuff'?

Ger Roe

Why can't some more control be introduced at a consumer level?

Why don't we have low voltage energy options to light our homes at night - separate led circuit with stored battery power charged by small windmill?, more widespread easier/cheaper use of solar water heating? rainwater recovery systems used for toilet flushing to reduce water processing demand (why are we flushing fully treated drinking water anyway?). Why is there hardly any use of community heating schemes in this country? Why is there no physical 'off' switch on practically every electrical appliance that you can buy .... everything has a sleeping 'standby' mode with associated led burning through the night and appliances wasting energy waiting on input that never comes, while also shortening their operating life as the power supply capacitors dry out. Why do different council areas have different recycle policies and options - some take items that others don't , some charge for items that others don't? Why are green bins (recycle) coloured blue in the midlands and the domestic refuse (non recycle) bin is green - seems like a minor pedantic point, but when you then get told on the news to put your soft plastics in your green bin - there lies a confusion problem that simply shouldn't exist in what should be a nationally managed and operated system.

Despite being among the very first countries up to declare a national climate emergency... we are not dealing with environmental and energy issues on a national basis - set up one super environmental and energy department, give someone with a bit of cop and clout the total responsibility and get it done. The only option we seem to be considering seriously, is to try and catch up on large scale generation after years of not having a plan and then also using the big tax and price increase stick to beat consumers into using less energy, that they will then be charged more for, because since we were forced to give up our nationally managed service and hand the market over to private enterprise, profits have to be made.

The issues are too big to expect companies motivated by profit to get us out of the problems we are in - unless we are prepared to be continually fleeced in the process.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966439#Comment_117966439

I wouldn't trust the Irish developer set, doing it on the cheap whilst sniggerring up their sleeves.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966771#Comment_117966771

I would put saving the planet pretty high up myself now, actually no I would put it top of the agenda