What are your thoughts on the fertiliser price s for 2022

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113674#Comment_120113674

No, there is no vat on fertlizer last time I knew

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113693#Comment_120113693

As far as I am aware there is up North

Pinsnbushings

Can you just pay the vat in the north, still likely to be cheaper

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113799#Comment_120113799

I know a few lads with vat numbers.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113811#Comment_120113811

My workplace are over back to the UK with a flatbed every couple of weeks but Id be reluctant ask them, but at even 600 pound a ton they be a good saving

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120111413#Comment_120111413

Exactly. Tanko's take on the situation as a big conspiracy is as wide of the mark as most such speculations.

I was talking to a friend 10 days ago about urea prices. He got prices from three coops in his district. Per tonne was 980 in one, 1020 in another and 1050 in the third.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113693#Comment_120113693

There is VAT in the North. Route it through a VAT reg friend here. They won't be charged the VAT, and don't have to pass it onto you as it's zero rated here, so its not an inconvenience and your accounting will be straigt.

Bass Reeves

Rang around this morning to two places I buy. The first one1

18-6-12....935

Urea .......925

Prot urea 46%. 995

Other Co-op is not quoting which is a great sign. They must not have a lot of product in stock. They are probably watching to use new product to dilute the price hopefully

I am projecting 150-200 off them prices by late February/early March. The 18's is a crazy price. I bought my 18's last year for 750, my Urea was kind of similarity priced last year.

They probably want to hold prices until the pre-booked and paid for stuff is delivered.

There will be weeping and nashing of teeth I imagine. Gap is too big if it's 650/ ton in the UK. There would be lads importing and selling at a price in between.

Just think of the opportunity it would be 9k on a artic of a difference. If an importer bough in 5k tons on a ship he could make along with the normal margin another 500k on a 4 million turnover and that is adding 100/ ton extra.

I cannot see co-op's managing to hold the line.

Gawddawggonnit

Urea 46% gran BB = €525 ex-port. Full loads. Immediate payment.

33.5% AN gran BB = €600 ex works. Full loads. Immediate payment.

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120115637#Comment_120115637

Jesus christ dear stuff alright....it has to come down they will have to just take the hit simple as people aren't stupid they will go elsewhere where its cheaper

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120116903#Comment_120116903

Pity it's not available to farmers here at that money

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120116903#Comment_120116903

Dawg, would the merchants here have them offers too?

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117494#Comment_120117494

I’m not privy to what the trade is at, but I would assume it would be more competitively priced and better credit deals than what I can get here. I’m only quoting per artic load…buying thousands of tons isn’t even on the same chart.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120118464#Comment_120118464

This is what I mean. If Dawg can buy that in France for that price, can you imagine the price for a shipload maybe 20-40% a ton cheaper. Yes the importers have there mark up and costs but it will land in a poet in France, the UK or Ireland for virtually the same price.

Trying to charge 50% more on retail price compared to elsewhere is not sustainable. Somewhere someone will see an opportunity and start importing if they can make an extra million on top of normal margin on maybe a 3.5-4 million investment.

If the difference is 2-300/ton lads will arrange loads between them

K.G.

Well who s ordering the boatload

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120012#Comment_120120012

I be fairly sure there is a few larger importers looking at it already. Where there is money there is a way.

Doing the sums myself on an artic load. I need 10-11T myself. If there is a 250-300/ ton different I take the full 28 ton and shift the rest out of the yard and charge 50 euro/ big bag over the cost price. A lot of small lads will come for a bag or two. The odd one will pay cash I would expect to make 1400 euro on the excess and probably 2-300 of it in cash.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120119014#Comment_120119014

Steady on there Bass…20-40% discount from my quotes would be incredible. Low to mid single figures would be more realistic I would think.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120754#Comment_120120754

Problem in Ireland is that Co-op or local merchants sell a lot of the product. A lot is shifted straight out of the co-ops lads pullin in to fill the spreader or throw a few big bags in the jeep trailer.

They are usually paying ,15% above what I pay for 10ton delivered into the yard. I know a lad that went 60 miles last year to pick up a couple of ton of fertlizer. It was a non standard mix but was working out over 200/ton cheaper than the something similar out of the co-op.

You saw the prices I was quoted above. At present it seems urea is 650/ton by the artic in the UK. If that sort of pricing is in NI in a month and prices are similar to what I was quoted I will see can I price a mixed artic. I can handle 11ton. I know 3-4 lads that will probably take the rest. The big thing is to not get greedy and to turn it fast.

There is a small lad near me that always need 8-10 bales he always pays for them in cash. His fertlizer requirement is 3T 18-6-12. I fairly sure he take that if I was willing to stage it over the year for him

I do not expect to have to do it as I expect to see serious cracks to develop between co-ops and merchants fairly fast. No way if it is in France for those price that it will not be in Rosslare for that in February.

Silverdream

And the boat, lorry and driver are for free.

ffs

Mooooo

A lot of stuff bought already, many fine till early summer so will be interesting to see re fert.

A late spring may be a bigger issue. Dairy rations heading to 500 tonne and there may be a need to replenish full stocks of silage country wide come summer then. Dry weather last year had many feeding in summer/ autumn in drier areas and those of us in wetter areas housed earlier then as hasn't stopped raining since the start of Oct

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121321#Comment_120121321

Buying maize in small bags at 400/ton in single bags. Barley is a tad cheaper. Anybody paying 500/ton for a bulk ration is not pricing around. Was buying 70/30 maize/strawhull for 370 ton last summer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121316#Comment_120121316

Bulk transport adds little to the price of anything. If the stuff is in England retail at present at 650/ton it will drop further. If You buy most small items now a courier will drop it to the door now for a fiver. A euro pallet cost about 50 for a single pallet to a single address one off.

A lot will depend on the price in NI, but it's unlikely it will differ much from the UK. If those UK fertlizer prices become defacto in NI the stuff will just flow south

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122570#Comment_120122570

There is a big price difference in ration and a good dairy nut. Difference in cow performance and condition too.

Mooooo

Drought in Argentina, dunno about the rest of SA, hitting output. Soybean down to mid 30s mil tonnes estimated from 50mil average afaik. Starting out the year high as opposed to starting rise last year

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122613#Comment_120122613

I probably buy that ration 20+/ton cheaper at present maize was over 420/ton bulk at the time AFAIR. If maize is 400/ton in bags by the bag its probably 10-20 less by the pallet and another 10-20 less in bulk.

If you are buying a ration, maize, barley, soyabean, are the real expensive straights, everything else is a filler to an extent. Cubing only add 10-15/ton nowadays. A super ration will only contain about 50-55% of the big three all the rest will be fillers with a bit of minerals and molasses to bind the nut.

It's not rocket science. Miller's will use dried distillers grains, rapeseed as protein sources, they will put in pulps and hulls this time of year which you do not need if you are feeding any decent amount of silage.

If you are buying rations/nuts in any quantity (a dairy farm 100 cows feeding 3kgs/ day is feeding over 2T/ week) no ration at present even if based on top class ingredients should cost more than 450/ ton.

They will add a few extra ''special ingredients'' ( is it metalac or something similar at present is the flavour of the month and maybe add in a bit of yeast) and add 50-70/ ton extra

It's like the lad feeding 1-2 kgs to weanlings and stores when he get much the same return for 5-6c worth of minerals

Mooooo

Make up my own mix. Send it out to different suppliers for quotes. Was at or below 460 for most of the year but towards the end of the year it was 490/ 500.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122731#Comment_120122731

50-70€/t for mega lac and yeast

will ye go away 😂

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123340#Comment_120123340

Is it costing that I like to know the price of it

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120123373#Comment_120123373

Acid buff here €4.00 per tonne at a 5kg feed rate...don't have the price of the others

funkey_monkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113668#Comment_120113668

 I was in a Co-op store and a farmer was in there and had pre bought fertlizer. He was saying there would be war if the stuff in spring is cheaper.

We have pre bought too. Not sure why there would be war. We pre bought on the basis that we didn't know what the price would be in spring and rather than take the risk of waiting we bought at a price in October. I assume he done the same. If its higher in Spring, you win. If its lower in Spring, you lose. That's the gamble you take with pre buying.

That's the way that hedging your bets works.

Silverdream

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122570#Comment_120122570

Carrying bagged fertilizer on a lorry across from England is not Bulk transport. You'll have to show us these hauliers that can transport a pallet of fertilizer from England to anywhere in Ireland for €50.