What are your thoughts on the fertiliser price s for 2022

stanflt

https://businesswales.gov.wales/farmingconnect/news-and-events/news/top-tips-maximising-performance-foliar-feeding-grassland

this might be of benefit

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048926#Comment_120048926

I'd have to take more convincing. I want to believe it.

@einn32 Hope I have the correct poster. Any thoughts on cocksfoot?

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048935#Comment_120048935

Not a great trial to be honest, Primitive stuff just applying nitrogen only. It is proven fact from New Zealand that adding humic and fulvic in sufficient quantities will practically double the nitrogen use efficiency. I would also be adding molasses, liquid seaweed extract, trichoderma and microbes.

ginger22

Here are the silage results from Agri King showing the 4th cut made the first week of October. Not the most important figure the last line Agri King net energy 7.76. That is the real feed value.

Agri-King_Sample_Compare (1).pdf

stanflt

The trial included the use of humic/fulvic

https://www.walesfarmer.co.uk/news/18389153.welsh-trials-show-benefit-foliar-feeding/

manjou

Which is cheaper humic and fulvic acid or the nitrogen

stanflt

Not to be confusing lads but the results from the trails show lower protein silages as a result of using foliar fert- this isn’t a problem and is actually more beneficial to the environment as less n losses- if you read the full trial results it clearly shows that in multi cut systems the timing between cuts dictates the protein % of the silage

why do you keep saying these trials are primitive? They are getting the same findings all around the globe which clearly shows that with lower n and the uses of humic/fulvic acids we can reduce n usage by 50%

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049371#Comment_120049371

Yes I know that by using humic and fulvic with the dissolved urea it is more efficient but the thing I am saying it doesnt have to be at the expense of lower protein silage. Lower protein silage is a huge cost if you have to feed added protein to make up the shortfall. But it doesnt have to be that way.

Say my name

Could the 4th cut have benefited from the natural event that is summer soil nitrogen mineralisation?

Could the more soil life that accrued from the treatments meant more soil nitrogen mineralisation when the event occurs.

Usually happens August - September.

stanflt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049404#Comment_120049404

Silage at 12-13% with higher sugars is far more beneficial than 17-19% protein that’s only coming from excess n

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049420#Comment_120049420

That is possible because there is a obvious improvement in the soil texture. All those silages are of an outside block of land used for silage only.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120045860#Comment_120045860

FOR DUMMIES ONLY.

I ve started doing the bit of homework i was given so i started with foliar feeding.

It involves spraying smaller amounts of nitrogen(usually disolved urea) on to the grass at rates equivalent to 7 to 10 units per acre.from what i have seen one complicating factor is it seems it has to have a lot of leaf for to absorb the nitrogen,you cant put it out after grazing it seems 2000kg plus covers are ideal.the jist of it is it works great for silage/ crops and is very effient in terms of nitrogen use.i suppose the reason we tended to use compound fertilizer is it was relatively cheap and the spreading was easy.i had spoken to a guy at the ploughing and the machines for doing it ranged from 35k for the farmer spec to 80k for the contractor spec.can be done with a conventianal sprayer but i think it needs to be constantly mixed/agitated.it really only makes sense now because of high n prices but it seems to be able to deliver similar performance from much lower amounts of n.i ll start looking at the envoiromental aspects of it next and see what i can find out

Say my name

To add on.

There's no need for an expensive sprayer. The bigger the better obviously. But trailed secondhand can be picked up reasonably enough. Depends though on you being first and everyone else not getting the same idea.

On the covers. If you've green at all it'll take it in. Obviously the more the better. But no where near 2000 covers bar for silage and even at that you'd be tramping grass.

No need for constant agitation either. That's the sales pitch for the new Zealand machine that it can spread liquid lime.

Myself I started without N while figuring it out then graduated to 4 units per acre getting at the end of the grazing season this year.

To really feck ye up I was using seaweed coated CAN at low rates before that 4 units started.

There's a technology that should be embraced by grassland farmers and pr urea thrown in the bin. And then that leads to calcified seaweed prills which have their place too as a kickstarter.

straight

One of Teagasc's top grass people said

"Foliar feeding does not work, people are out there claiming it works and they are WRONG. The nutrients must come from the roots and not through the leaf."

No room for discussion there.

Say my name

I've absolutely no skin in the game with these posts.

But the dept are reducing N limits applied by 10% for 2023 across all sectors of farming. It won't just be a financial aspect. That low hanging fruit will be there every year for the dept. And every time it's reduced it reduces the country's emissions on the ledger book as well as the epa aspect. So it'll more and more be used. As far as the government are concerned it'll be "Oh the farmers will figure out a way".

Anyway ..ye'll all figure out different things in one's own time.

The Base, Nots, Danu groups are well up on this.

alps

The 2000 cover above probably refers to total cover (NZ covers) equating to 500 here.

Reckon 500 to 700 is the sweet spot..

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049992#Comment_120049992

Who?

alps

There was one of them said the other day that you'd need an Aviva Stadium to produce 10kg of beef..

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120049992#Comment_120049992

This thread is a mountain of knowledge …..been following @Say my name here a while now and the man’s a mountain of practical no nonsense knowledge when it comes to Foliar applications and soil biology ….Tegasc and there slow movement to the table with all this is a bit baffling but hardly surprising ….lots of vested interests clouding them hope u and @stanflt keep the info flowing here

a guy in my area has a tow and fert machine a few years …getting on great with it but there bananas money ….as said here a good second hand sprayer ,gps unit ,2 Ibc’s pump and mixer would get you going for a reasonable cost …..and end up saving a lot in purchased chemical n

Siamsa Sessions

Following this discussion with great fascination at the knowledge being shared and the confidence fellas are showing in trying new ideas, often in the face of “industry” advice.

For someone very interested like myself but with zero knowledge… let’s say I buy a sprayer off DoneDeal and want to try something on a few acres after the first round of grazing next April.

What might the options be for a newbie?

If it matters, the ground would be well-drained, pH = 6.5 on soil test last Sept, and old pasture.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050163#Comment_120050163

The first thing is to rig up a mixing tank. Depends on the scale. What I have is a 5000 litre plastic tank with a good strong submersible slurry/effluent pump. Circulates the water in the tank similar to agitating slurry while you let the urea flow slowly out of the bag. Takes no more that 5 or 10 minutes to dissolve. On a smaller scale you could use an IBC tank. If you PM me I can sort you out with some humic/fulvic powder.

alps

And low drift nozzles...few euros each..

stanflt

179 euro for the 2inch petrol water pump and 2 ibc is how I started

stanflt

Trick is to use warm water from the plate cooler- the urea mixes better in warm water

stanflt

As

stanflt

That’s why you keep dismissing what I’m doing- your trying to promote and sell a product from china that has no results- boards is for discussion if you want to sell a product please use adverts

funkey_monkey

It's interesting stuff. However, the conversation is starting to get away from me.

My main fear of this is doing something wrong and at best souring the grass for a while or at worst altering the soil makeup for a longer period.

Say my name

Here this is what I'm using.

(There's other groups looking for funding from the dept for trial work and ye're getting it for free).

A pan I think is 450 grams. Not sure at this hour without the weighing scales. You'll have to go by whatever is recommended by the product you use.

4 litres molasses/ acre.

I started the journey with the seaweed powder. Found a benefit. Then added the molasses. Found it better again. Added fulvic powder. Found it better again. Looked for a humic element. Then got a humic fulvic product. The fulvic was used up and then I relied completely on the humic fulvic. Tried out rates of the humic fulvic and went overboard once and had to cut back. Then I added the urea and I could increase the rates of humic fulvic to balance. I'm now at the optimum so far. A bag of urea is a 50 kg bag. And now with the GPS that 12 acres has become 16 acres. Roughly. I haven't got a mixing tank like the other two here. I use the induction hopper of the sprayer, with the sprayer on agitate.

I've added biochar, lime, gypsum, along the way too, blocking the filters.

It's not witchcraft.

I even see on the journal a chem company promoting a bacteria to be sprayed on plants that it claims captures nitrogen in leaves. Big hullabaloo made of it.

einn32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048944#Comment_120048944

Wrong poster.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050786#Comment_120050786

How dare you make your snide comment. For your information I am only trying to steer people in the correct direction. Have been spraying dissolve urea for the past 7 years. Learned the hard way before there was anybody doing it here.

Have you put up your silage sample results yet. Probably ashamed to have them seen.