What are your thoughts on the fertiliser price s for 2022

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046205#Comment_120046205

A competition to spread more N?

I'm not sure how you got defensive over this KG. I never even responded to you.

Stick up your own Nitrogen usage this year so. Let's see if it's a model we should learn from.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046350#Comment_120046350

If i came as across as defensive i m sorry.my mistake we ll move on.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120028502#Comment_120028502

I’d safely say that importers have forward bought sfa fertiliser at higher prices. Sure weren’t we told that they weren’t even making fertiliser because gas was too expensive, now they’re saying that there’s plenty of it out there but because they paid big money for it they think farmers should bend over again next year. They always have some bullcrap excuse for their price gouging. Tell farmers it’s shocking hard to get to soften them up to get ripped off. It’s a bit like the Bulgarian apartments during the boom, one price for the locals, one price for the Europeans and a special price for Paddy.

The price of gas has fallen 70% in the last four months, there’s no reason why fertiliser prices shouldn’t collapse from now on apart from the greedy price fixing cartels doing what they do best. The same nonsense is going on with the price of nuts and rations at the moment.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046548#Comment_120046548

I'd be interested in those figures though.

You'd be dye in the wool, teagasc, protected urea, buying nitrogen for tax purposes, can't live without N , 40 units on the first round thinking....if I'm correct.

We all learn by sharing.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046671#Comment_120046671

Ah i am what i am.i dont know what units i put out but i do know i used 25% less this year.i not getting at anyone i just wanted a simple explanation of the principles how these things work , maybe i phrased the post wrong by referring to witchcraft but either way ,e ll just move on

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046712#Comment_120046712

Tune in to this and you won't be led astray. Cheaper than going straight out blind and buying a sprayer.

https://www.integratedsoils.com/foliar-nitrogen.html

If you wanted to go more funkier, have a Google of Korean natural farming and jadam natural farming. All those are mostly solutions that are sprayed on with a sprayer.

And to finish off, Joel Williams will probably touch on acidifiers with foliar. That's how you're hearing of ammonium sulphate (sulphur, nitrogen) or what Joel will say Citric acid.

What is pissing people off in this country is if you ask a government agriculture research body representative here about this, is the answer you get back is farmers haven't the infrastructure to do any of this. Only tillage farmers have the infrastructure. Plus they don't believe grass can be fed through the leaf or liquid in soil. Only that it takes an area the size of Croke Park to get a kilo of meat and that we'd be better off raising meal worms in warehouses for human consumption instead of cows on pasture.

Teagasc is not your friend anymore. The ship with the good sailed off. You're left with the fiends who now want to do you in.

You may do your own research KG.

A start link in the course above.

alps

There's no "Foliar for Dummies" book available unfortunately.

Joel Williams' course in January will hopefully make things clearer, but it's a really technical scene.

Many of the guys above have arrived at where they are through trial an error, a really inquisitive nature, bravery and an understanding of chemistry.

It will test any agency to set up a template for the ordinary Joe..

However, as restrictions and costings change, maybe it's those who break this code will have the advantage in an ever more competitive world.

The day of using N as a cover up to technical inability or incapability is over.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046671#Comment_120046671

Why would you waste your breath. Let them keep on spreading the nitrogen.

Say my name

Great minds and timing @alps

blackdog1

Teagasc have gone down the protected urea route and it's just wrong. Reading research that says they are finding residue of the coating used in the protected urea in the milk after using it. Then you look up the products that they use to coat it and what it's toxic for and it's an eye opener!. I'm finding all this chat on liquid and foliar fantastic and I'll be purchasing a GPS and probably a small sprayer and hopefully join the party

Jonnyc135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047048#Comment_120047048

Teagasc going down that route, it's truly just ridiculous. Talking about making things worse, I have to say I have seen benefits of using liquid fert and liquid seaweed on trial fields this last number of years.

Some poachy heavy fields have been remarkable drier and have far better water holding capabilites since using liquid seaweed and slurry additives. All I can but it down too is extra length in the roots, extra worms and better soil aggregation allowing for more pore space hence leaving the field in far better condition during the winter months.

Delighted with this as far less footrot/lameness in the sheep due to better ground conditions. That's just my 2 cent, will be doing on more fields come spring and autumn again.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120044684#Comment_120044684

Perhaps thats where you are going wrong. Not enough humates / carbon. Humates are made from leonardite a dry substance.

Why would you mix it with water and put in a can.

I would imagine those liquid products are 90% water.

I would be using .5 Kgs dry humates per acre, per application.

Carbon is the magic ingredient for all life.

stanflt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047113#Comment_120047113

Who’s going wrong- I’m getting the exact same results as the extensive trials done over the course of 5 years in the uk- you keep going on about the powder you are using which is one of the ingredients in the mix that I buy???- why is it better when you use it???

stanflt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047113#Comment_120047113

What’s the chemical analysis of your powder??

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047543#Comment_120047543

There must be some difference though in what yourself and Ginger used if he has gotten 19% pr silage.

There's no explanation coming bar suggestions from Ginger of the potential differences of applications between ye.

Is not the purpose of all this how to achieve similar or to console oneself that a trial got similar to yourself so that's all that can be achieved?

I'll throw a cat among the pigeons and suggest a difference could be boron. I had a reseed come back with 19% pr silage once and it had extra boron applied and a seaweed foliar. Cows didn't fancy it though.

Edit: solutions can also go off when made up. Seaweed powder I use is not recommended be made up and used later. It has to be used straight away. If you leave some in the sprayer and come back the next day and open the lid and stick your head in. You'd be knocked down with the smell of vinegar.

stanflt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047622#Comment_120047622

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047622#Comment_120047622

Definitely but I’d like to see his actual silage results to properly compare- never believe anything without data to show and back up- what I’m really delighted with is that I’m getting the exact results from extensively funded and published trials

id love to see the chemical results from his product and his silage results

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047633#Comment_120047633

I'd say ye may contact each other privately.

Ye probably do know each other unbeknownst to ye.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2056737550/issues-with-sour-grasses

Ten years ago on this site Kierserite was being posted about.

It's making my mind up now that I'll be spreading a bag 50kg or 40 kgs. I've already went with two of ordinary gran lime and one of quick lime so I'm covered from throwing cal : mag ratios out of whack.

older by the day

Would it be helpful to post the price of all these magic potions you are all using. I met a friend after buying 20l of slurry additive in November. 300 euro. Made in Australia, ingredients are molasses, sugar and seaweed. So I got a drum of molasses for 8 euro, I had rotted seaweed gathered for next year vegetables. I threw the molasses and the seaweed in a barrel. I have put some of this diluted all over the tanks. What are the odds it will work. Or is there magic words or powder to be added

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047543#Comment_120047543

I think you are not applying sufficient amount. You product is 90% water in the can. I am applying .5Kgs of a 90% DM product per acre. So could be applying up to 100 times more.

Anyway here is the silage sample results for the first and second cut. Dont have the extreemely high protein fourth cut results to hand as they were never given to me but were put up on a slide when we won the Agri King silage competition this year. I will see if I can get them off the Agri King rep.

Agri-King_Sample_Compare.pdf

stanflt

That’s a bad link there btw- also that pdf is the same name as the one they give out to compare your results to- the pdf will have your name in the title- I get agriking to do my samples so I’m used to the way the are presented

stanflt

If you want to can email them through pm

stanflt

Ginger will you put up the chemical analysis of the powder you are using

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120047543#Comment_120047543

Might be better to compare kilos of crude protein per ha, might not be as much in the difference.

Otherwise timing (and conditions) between last application and cutting might be part of the difference.

Or sulphur/mg application might mean that the same amount of n in the sample tests as a higher cp% (nearly all silage tests are done by nirs not wet chemistry, and it could be moved by such things)

stanflt

Lower protein silage is actually better for the animal as high protein silage is mostly the result of over use and poor application timing of nitrogen

I can’t get my head around how so people are getting these high results when using foliar- all the international trials from around the world all result in lower p silage but much higher sugars and mineral results which I for one have encountered

theres lads comfusing people with magic powders and absolutely no data behind it or trail results to back up said data

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048826#Comment_120048826

Screenshotted it for you

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046712#Comment_120046712

There's a lot of unproven stuff posted about in this thread, much of it is probably nonsense.

Start with the simple things.

Correct pH, p's, k's, S

When reseeding use multiple species of grass (cocksfoot, Timothy, fescues etc. All the major seed companies run breeding programs for these grasses also). There's no need to even think about chicory or other exotic species.

Clover, you will know yourself whether red or white is something you can work in.

On its own foliar urea will be more efficient than spreading dry fert. Humic acid in the mix will make it a bit more efficient as it chelates with the urea, making it more stable.

Humic has proven benefits of its own and can have the same protective effect for P to stop it getting tied up in the soil.

No need to even think about boiling potatoes up, spreading seashells etc. None of them are proven and even those using those methods don't tend to have any control comparison and measurements are rare also.

stanflt

Your p% are low as I have said- did you not say they were higher- also your sugars are extremely low

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048890#Comment_120048890

What stocking rate would you be advocating for dairy stock on cocksfoot, timothy?

Bearing in mind there's other posters on this forum have experience of cows on such and have described them as "cardboard" grasses and stock lost condition on these.

(one's head would be spun around backwards on this thread).

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120048917#Comment_120048917

The same stocking rate. Selected varieties are much better than the weed strains which too many base their assumptions on, no different to comparing a very early heading strain of ryegrass that is all stem to a late heading leafy variety.