How to approach teacher about my brother's non-uniform coat being seized?

Jeremy Sproket

My brother cycled to school with a yellow light coat covered all over in reflective (yellow/silver style one).

There is a school jacket which the rules say must be worn in conjunction with the uniform and in school and on school grounds. If anyone is caught with any other jacket on school grounds, the jacket will be seized and must be collected by a parent or guardian after an apology from the pupil to the teacher who took it.

The school jacket is a thick insulated one and is (in Jack's words) a very, very very deep blue with a small reflective strip on the top on the nape of the neck.

My brother cycles to school and it's never been an issue, but recently he was accosted by a teacher and told to surrender his jacket as it wasn't authorised.

My brother is 18. My parents are in Sweden on family business for a number of months and the school said that he needs someone to act in "loco parentus" ?? They are refusing to speak to him or let him have the jacket back but they'll strangely speak to his 28 year old sister (ie, me).

I have to meet the teacher who took the coat in one of the coming afternoons, in the mean time, my bro doesn't have his usual hi vis coat.

Any suggestions how to approach, I don't think he should apologise. Glad I did my secondary education in another country. It didn't matter if kids had green hair or pink trousers.

L1011

He's an adult that's had something stolen. He should call the Guards

Schools "codes of conduct" are generally signed under duress, by children, and have zero chance of being legal. Schools need to be hammered hard over this utter, utter nonsense.

maestroamado

Just send an email to the school/teacher expressing concern for the safety of your brother cycling to and from school, if one of your parents do it be better. This is crazy stuff and needs to be addressed.

I do understand school rules but taking a safety garment not fit any rules.... I expect the jacket be returned immediately...

godtabh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925692#Comment_117925692

Is he a child or adult in this instance?

Either way, next time it happens don't give it up.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058209997/how-to-approach-teacher-about-my-brothers-non-uniform-coat-being-seized

The idea of the uniform is a noble one. No matter your background or wealth everyone was the same. Of course the reality is a lot different.

Your brother is unlikely to get it back without an apology though. Of course, the school is being completely ridiculous but it should be considered as one of those life lessons: dicks are often in charge and that sadly the smartest course of action is often acquiescence rather than a principled stand.

KaneToad

Solution is clear. Student should apologize and parent/guardian should collect garment. As has been outlined to you.

Or else you could go on a big crusade about how terrible the school is etc etc... if I were a betting man...

Tork

I can see this is going to go well...

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925704#Comment_117925704

Adult, but the usual school "you signed the code of conduct" stuff is going to be something signed under duress in first year, as a child.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925692#Comment_117925692

Wow - talk about blowing things out of proportion. OP, please ignore this.

Simply go in to collect the jacket as per the rules. You can offer the excuse/explanation that it was for safety reasons, but don't make an argument out of it. If your brother is actually concerned with safety while cycling, then he should be wearing something like this over his jacket. It's not a question of money, as they only cost a few euro and are often given out free at events/promotions etc.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925798#Comment_117925798

Nope - the school is acting disgracefully and needs to have this made very clear

Forcing an adult to apologise to the thief to get their property back is insanity.

Jeremy Sproket

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925798#Comment_117925798

The coat is very thick, it's almost like wearing a duvet.

He'd be stinking if he cycled in it 🤧

The changing rooms are off limits outside of PE lessons too so can't even wear cycling gear in, he has to cross the boundary in Dubarry shoes, no runners (that's a separate issue, though. He's OK wearing full blow uniform to cycle in as it's only a 5 k cycle). It's just not OK to cycle in a practically invisible coat that restricts movement and which causes him to sweat. If he got flattened by a bus or lorry on the way who'd be to blame?

dinneenp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925692#Comment_117925692

CALL THE GUARDS?????REALLY???

While maybe not being legal, calling the guards will make a mountain out of it and the teachers could have it in for him then.

As others have mentioned, talk logically re safety and how he's now more endangered when cycling to school (in an environmental friendly way)

L1011

To add - an 18 year old is legally entitled to tell the school to not contact their parents and indeed that is the default requirement. They're an adult, their parents are irrelevant and the schools policies cannot override the law.

This idiotic policy is clearly in contravention of that.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925841#Comment_117925841

Yes. Its theft.

Why on earth are people trying to defend theft?

I would simply call the school and explain that essential cycling safety equipment, with reflectors has been taken by their staff and you are considering taking legal advice on the matter.

Irish schools seem absolutely obsessed with petty minutiae like this kind of thing. I don’t know why it’s considered normal. It’s like we are trying to train people for 19th century uniformed service work or something. Utterly bizarre.

I came across similar crap with someone who was being asked to wear a branded, very poor quality fabric mask instead of the dark CE approved FFP2 mask she preferred. She’s had asthma and it’s both easier to breath through the proper mask and it might have more hope of actually protecting her. All they cared about with the visual uniformity. Institutionalised weird behaviour in my view.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925725#Comment_117925725

I be happy to take your money on this bet... removing safety garment from cyclist... jail time...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925850#Comment_117925850

Because there’s a belief here that you should bring up children and young adults to never question authority figures, keep their heads down, shut up, face the blackboard and learn by rote.

I can’t see where that could possibly go wrong, or how it has ever gone wrong here in the past. I mean, it’s not like we have a culture that would ignore massive institutional abuse for fear of causing upset or anything like that…

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925939#Comment_117925939

And we seem to have the perfect set of Prinicipals / senior teachers to try encourage that culture to remain.

Found that even my old school - that seems to have got worse in terms of silly rules since I finished there decades ago - now has a nice letter on their website explaining that they will not contact parents after a pupil turns 18.

Prisoner6409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925692#Comment_117925692

The Guards have better things to be doing.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926386#Comment_117926386

All the better reason for them to tell the school to stop stealing things and consuming their time then.

HildaOgdenx

Has this happened before, OP? I certainly have read a very similar thread on here previously.

Larbre34

Uniforms have their place in school. A crested top and trousers or skirt.

Mandatory jackets, blazers, coats, gabardines, parkas etc on top of that are as dumb as soup. Pure vanity and snobbery.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926418#Comment_117926418

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926418#Comment_117926418

Yes! I was thinking the exact same. Something about a child or sibling having his coat taken or......something like that.

Perhaps it is their time to roll out a similar issue again 🙃

HildaOgdenx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926875#Comment_117926875

Yes, and the sibling being left to sort it out, in the absence of the parents. Sounds very familiar.

dinneenp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925850#Comment_117925850

Technically it may be. But my point is going in guns blazing it's the best approach. It could end up with the boy being treated badly by the teachers.

jimmycrackcorm

Surely he should have the school uniform for Wearing in school and whatever else is weather and safety protection for wearing while cycling to school.

So it depends on the detail of having it in school, ie. did he also have the school jacket?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926916#Comment_117926916

School started it by going utterly ridiculously over the top in stealing the jacket. Reporting the theft is a sensible thing to do in that case.

If the teacher decides to victimise someone for getting caught for breaking the law, they are unsuitable to be a teacher.

People should have to creep around in fear of a bad teacher taking out revenge.

The DayDream

Utterly insane. I'm so glad I didn't go to primary or secondary school here, though I did attend college in Ireland. Even in 3rd level you could see this pervasive notion of the lecturers being some God like being never to be questioned, who could treat students like dirt, while everyone was afraid to speak up about it.

Where I grew up we didn't have uniforms and for a lot of kids their clothes were very important. And if you met some of those kids' parents... Let's just say a teacher would know to never ever in a million years take a coat off any child, as they would have a very slim chance of not ending up in the hospital or worse.

I remember one student had a hat he wouldn't take off which wasn't allowed and a teacher confiscated it. Now, at the time I thought the teacher was somewhat in the right (none of us were allowed to wear one even though baseball hats were very popular). There was no good reason to wear one unlike this case with safety for cycling.

Turned out it was a hat that belonged to the kid's brother who had died (still not really a good reason but that doesn't matter). And this kid, like many of my classmates, had a lot of cousins. As it was a woman teacher who took the hat it was the boy's girl cousins who showed up at the school, and by the time they were done with her she was missing chunks of hair, face scratched to hell, blood everywhere, clothes torn. And she didn't come back to teach for the rest of the year.

Someone suggested going in guns blazing would end up with the boy being treated badly by other teachers. Well, do you think any of the teachers treated this kid badly the rest of the year? (Not that I condone what happened.) Like hell they did. He wore that hat until he graduated.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926916#Comment_117926916

Seems that's already happening, so nothing to lose by being firm. Just ask when you can pick up the jacket and go to the Guards if the answer isn't 'whenever you like'.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926961#Comment_117926961

It's not actually theft. No more than a teacher confiscating a mobile phone being used during class. Or an employee having to follow certain rules at work. So it's over the top to report it to the Gardai and they'd laugh at that and tell you to cop on.

Still, in the Op's case, I'd be going in and giving the teacher and principal hell about this and demand an explanation about why it wasn't handed over for the journey home, seeing as it's a reflective safety jacket for cycling.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925899#Comment_117925899

Jail time?

Ok, I'll bite. What law is broken?

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926982#Comment_117926982

What kind of $hithole did you grow up in?

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925803#Comment_117925803

It's trying to teach kids, at a very rudimentary level, to show respect and to obey even the simplest of rules without throwing a hissyfit.

HildaOgdenx

I suggest taking out the salt cellar, and taking a large pinch of salt, before taking this thread too seriously 😉

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926916#Comment_117926916

Again, a common thread in Ireland. Blow the whistle and you’re the trouble maker. It happens in many aspects of life here and is only very recently coming to the fore.

If you look at the school system here and the kinds of behaviours a large aspect of it continues to instil, it’s not surprising that we have some of the issues we have had.

Nobody should ever feel they’ll be victimised for making a very reasonable complaint.

Tork

Makes a change from a beard I suppose https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058179723/school-uniform-policies-of-irish-schools

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926982#Comment_117926982

Those cousins sound absolutely monstrous.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925850#Comment_117925850

Whatever the consequences, theft shouldn’t be the result...

id call the Gardai, his property has been stolen...

following that I’d write a letter / email to the department of education. Advising that any further attempt to bully him or force him to part with his own personal property will lead to you consulting a solicitor.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925692#Comment_117925692

Some people just help but make a bad situation worse! First of all it is not theft and the Garda will have no interest.

OP take path of least resistance. Turn, apologize for breaking the rules and collect the jackets. Then ask the teacher to explain the schools policy on wearing such vest while traveling to school, where they should be remove, stored etc since it is a health and safety issue. And since they have decided you are the responsible adult you are taking your responsibility seriously and need a written copy of the guidelines and perhaps a meeting with the principal or should you talk to the department of education or the press… since obviously safety is very important to you….

I expect an accommodation will be found.

freshpopcorn

OP Purchase a wig and put on some of your mother make and put on one of her dresses/high healers.

Then just go to the school and say I'm Mrs XXXX and I need my sons coat back. If they make an issue of it just say I've a bit of work done.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927067#Comment_117927067

There could well be a provision for it in law alright, other countries do have them if you Google it, but that might not hold up when it wasn't returned at the end of the day, it's a safety item and/or the student is over 18.

It'll never go far enough for us to find out though, purely academic

I think you'll end up having to apologise if you play it straight, if you really don't want to, then go passive aggressive, waste as much time of theirs as possible until they give it back

davetherave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058179723/school-uniform-policies-of-irish-schools

Sounds like your brother needs to start going to school in Sweden if it is so great there.

@maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925702#Comment_117925702

The majority of teachers are normal human being however if this particular one is of the "power trip" kind id tend to agree with @maestroamado . Once you mention safety the Teacher will relent. Nobody wants to be partially accountable for any sort of accident

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927076#Comment_117927076

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927076#Comment_117927076

That was kindof joke.... what i meant by "jail time" if there was an incident on bike and the fact that hi-vis was in the teachers drawers....

The guy with the salt may well be quicker on this one.... also Jeremy Sproket is a girl....

topmanamillion

This thread makes me thankful im not a teacher. A lot of people still haven't gotten over their teachers giving them a bollocking for being a little prick 30 years ago!

For what its worth it has to be zero tolerance with any deviation from uniforms. If teenagers get any sense they can take the p1ss they will.

Also this lad could have just worn a hi vis vest or a velcro strap and popped it into his bag when he arrived but just decided to wear a jacket knowing the rules. The school have given him a valuable lesson in adulthood.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927137#Comment_117927137

An 18 year old is not a kid. A teacher on a power trip deserves no respect

The people trying to say "it's not theft" cannot actually explain why it's not.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927391#Comment_117927391

It's not theft because the kid handed the coat over, as he had agreed to.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927408#Comment_117927408

Handing something over because it was demanded doesn't stop it being theft. If it did, mugging would be legal.

A one sided "agreement" would fail any basis of being a legal contract so thats no defence.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927411#Comment_117927411

He's an adult. He could have just refused to hand it over.

How was it a one sided agreement?

Peregrinus

It's not theft. Schools are in loco parentis with respect to their students, which means that a school has the same authority over a student as a parent has over a child. This authority extends to the confiscation of contraband. This authority doesn't magically end when a student turns 18; the school derives its authority from the fact that he's a student, not from the fact that he's a child, so his 18th birthday is of no particular relevance.

(Also worth adding that it's largely irrelevant whether, or when, the schools uniform policy was signed by the student, or by his parents/family. The purpose of getting students/parents to sign these things is not so that they will become bound by them — they are bound by them anyway — but to avoid any arguments about whether they knew what the policy was.)

If the student doesn't wish to be subject to the school's authority or its uniform policy, he can withdraw from the school. As an adult, he's perfectly entitled to do that. He doesn't require the agreement or permission of his family.

It's also not theft for an independent reason. Even if the school were not entitled to confiscate the non-uniform coat, the confiscation would only be theft if the school intended to deprive the student his coat. We know that the school doesn't have this intention, because it has a process in place for returning the coat.

The school may be handling this matter badly, but what they have done is not theft. The problem is unlikely to be resolved satisfactorily by dramatizing it in this way.

Sky King

I'm LOLing at all the would-be Rosa Parks types in the thread. FFS!

The school has a clear uniform policy. The item of clothing is contrary to it, so it was seized. The fact that this kid was singled out to have his jacket seized whereas the captain of the hurling team wouldn't is another story (and a good life lesson by the way).

Apologise, retrieve the jacket. If you still have concerns about the policy, bring them up with the school and ask them to be changed.

Personally? I wouldn't bother my hole, just tell him to do a good leaving, go and get some qualification in someething he is good at, get a good job and go off and enjoy his life, basking in the satisfaction that they are stuck there forever in a sh1t job, having to deal with petty nonsense like confiscating jackets from people.