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How to approach teacher about my brother's non-uniform coat being seized?

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  • 22-09-2021 7:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭


    My brother cycled to school with a yellow light coat covered all over in reflective (yellow/silver style one).

    There is a school jacket which the rules say must be worn in conjunction with the uniform and in school and on school grounds. If anyone is caught with any other jacket on school grounds, the jacket will be seized and must be collected by a parent or guardian after an apology from the pupil to the teacher who took it.

    The school jacket is a thick insulated one and is (in Jack's words) a very, very very deep blue with a small reflective strip on the top on the nape of the neck.

    My brother cycles to school and it's never been an issue, but recently he was accosted by a teacher and told to surrender his jacket as it wasn't authorised.

    My brother is 18. My parents are in Sweden on family business for a number of months and the school said that he needs someone to act in "loco parentus" ?? They are refusing to speak to him or let him have the jacket back but they'll strangely speak to his 28 year old sister (ie, me).

    I have to meet the teacher who took the coat in one of the coming afternoons, in the mean time, my bro doesn't have his usual hi vis coat.


    Any suggestions how to approach, I don't think he should apologise. Glad I did my secondary education in another country. It didn't matter if kids had green hair or pink trousers.



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Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    He's an adult that's had something stolen. He should call the Guards


    Schools "codes of conduct" are generally signed under duress, by children, and have zero chance of being legal. Schools need to be hammered hard over this utter, utter nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Just send an email to the school/teacher expressing concern for the safety of your brother cycling to and from school, if one of your parents do it be better. This is crazy stuff and needs to be addressed.

    I do understand school rules but taking a safety garment not fit any rules.... I expect the jacket be returned immediately...



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Is he a child or adult in this instance?


    Either way, next time it happens don't give it up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,235 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    The idea of the uniform is a noble one. No matter your background or wealth everyone was the same. Of course the reality is a lot different.

    Your brother is unlikely to get it back without an apology though. Of course, the school is being completely ridiculous but it should be considered as one of those life lessons: dicks are often in charge and that sadly the smartest course of action is often acquiescence rather than a principled stand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Solution is clear. Student should apologize and parent/guardian should collect garment. As has been outlined to you.

    Or else you could go on a big crusade about how terrible the school is etc etc... if I were a betting man...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭Tork


    I can see this is going to go well...



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Adult, but the usual school "you signed the code of conduct" stuff is going to be something signed under duress in first year, as a child.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Wow - talk about blowing things out of proportion. OP, please ignore this.

    Simply go in to collect the jacket as per the rules. You can offer the excuse/explanation that it was for safety reasons, but don't make an argument out of it. If your brother is actually concerned with safety while cycling, then he should be wearing something like this over his jacket. It's not a question of money, as they only cost a few euro and are often given out free at events/promotions etc.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Nope - the school is acting disgracefully and needs to have this made very clear

    Forcing an adult to apologise to the thief to get their property back is insanity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Jeremy Sproket


    The coat is very thick, it's almost like wearing a duvet.

    He'd be stinking if he cycled in it 🤧

    The changing rooms are off limits outside of PE lessons too so can't even wear cycling gear in, he has to cross the boundary in Dubarry shoes, no runners (that's a separate issue, though. He's OK wearing full blow uniform to cycle in as it's only a 5 k cycle). It's just not OK to cycle in a practically invisible coat that restricts movement and which causes him to sweat. If he got flattened by a bus or lorry on the way who'd be to blame?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    CALL THE GUARDS?????REALLY???

    While maybe not being legal, calling the guards will make a mountain out of it and the teachers could have it in for him then.

    As others have mentioned, talk logically re safety and how he's now more endangered when cycling to school (in an environmental friendly way)



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    To add - an 18 year old is legally entitled to tell the school to not contact their parents and indeed that is the default requirement. They're an adult, their parents are irrelevant and the schools policies cannot override the law.

    This idiotic policy is clearly in contravention of that.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Yes. Its theft.


    Why on earth are people trying to defend theft?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I would simply call the school and explain that essential cycling safety equipment, with reflectors has been taken by their staff and you are considering taking legal advice on the matter.

    Irish schools seem absolutely obsessed with petty minutiae like this kind of thing. I don’t know why it’s considered normal. It’s like we are trying to train people for 19th century uniformed service work or something. Utterly bizarre.

    I came across similar crap with someone who was being asked to wear a branded, very poor quality fabric mask instead of the dark CE approved FFP2 mask she preferred. She’s had asthma and it’s both easier to breath through the proper mask and it might have more hope of actually protecting her. All they cared about with the visual uniformity. Institutionalised weird behaviour in my view.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I be happy to take your money on this bet... removing safety garment from cyclist... jail time...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because there’s a belief here that you should bring up children and young adults to never question authority figures, keep their heads down, shut up, face the blackboard and learn by rote.

    I can’t see where that could possibly go wrong, or how it has ever gone wrong here in the past. I mean, it’s not like we have a culture that would ignore massive institutional abuse for fear of causing upset or anything like that…



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    And we seem to have the perfect set of Prinicipals / senior teachers to try encourage that culture to remain.

    Found that even my old school - that seems to have got worse in terms of silly rules since I finished there decades ago - now has a nice letter on their website explaining that they will not contact parents after a pupil turns 18.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Prisoner6409




  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    All the better reason for them to tell the school to stop stealing things and consuming their time then.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,507 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Has this happened before, OP? I certainly have read a very similar thread on here previously.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,836 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Uniforms have their place in school. A crested top and trousers or skirt.

    Mandatory jackets, blazers, coats, gabardines, parkas etc on top of that are as dumb as soup. Pure vanity and snobbery.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes! I was thinking the exact same. Something about a child or sibling having his coat taken or......something like that.

    Perhaps it is their time to roll out a similar issue again 🙃



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,507 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Yes, and the sibling being left to sort it out, in the absence of the parents. Sounds very familiar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭dinneenp


    Technically it may be. But my point is going in guns blazing it's the best approach. It could end up with the boy being treated badly by the teachers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Surely he should have the school uniform for Wearing in school and whatever else is weather and safety protection for wearing while cycling to school.

    So it depends on the detail of having it in school, ie. did he also have the school jacket?



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    School started it by going utterly ridiculously over the top in stealing the jacket. Reporting the theft is a sensible thing to do in that case.

    If the teacher decides to victimise someone for getting caught for breaking the law, they are unsuitable to be a teacher.

    People should have to creep around in fear of a bad teacher taking out revenge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭The DayDream


    Utterly insane. I'm so glad I didn't go to primary or secondary school here, though I did attend college in Ireland. Even in 3rd level you could see this pervasive notion of the lecturers being some God like being never to be questioned, who could treat students like dirt, while everyone was afraid to speak up about it.

    Where I grew up we didn't have uniforms and for a lot of kids their clothes were very important. And if you met some of those kids' parents... Let's just say a teacher would know to never ever in a million years take a coat off any child, as they would have a very slim chance of not ending up in the hospital or worse.

    I remember one student had a hat he wouldn't take off which wasn't allowed and a teacher confiscated it. Now, at the time I thought the teacher was somewhat in the right (none of us were allowed to wear one even though baseball hats were very popular). There was no good reason to wear one unlike this case with safety for cycling.

    Turned out it was a hat that belonged to the kid's brother who had died (still not really a good reason but that doesn't matter). And this kid, like many of my classmates, had a lot of cousins. As it was a woman teacher who took the hat it was the boy's girl cousins who showed up at the school, and by the time they were done with her she was missing chunks of hair, face scratched to hell, blood everywhere, clothes torn. And she didn't come back to teach for the rest of the year.

    Someone suggested going in guns blazing would end up with the boy being treated badly by other teachers. Well, do you think any of the teachers treated this kid badly the rest of the year? (Not that I condone what happened.) Like hell they did. He wore that hat until he graduated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,753 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Seems that's already happening, so nothing to lose by being firm. Just ask when you can pick up the jacket and go to the Guards if the answer isn't 'whenever you like'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    It's not actually theft. No more than a teacher confiscating a mobile phone being used during class. Or an employee having to follow certain rules at work. So it's over the top to report it to the Gardai and they'd laugh at that and tell you to cop on.

    Still, in the Op's case, I'd be going in and giving the teacher and principal hell about this and demand an explanation about why it wasn't handed over for the journey home, seeing as it's a reflective safety jacket for cycling.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,173 ✭✭✭KaneToad




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