Boosters

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826615#Comment_117826615

No, I was responding to him saying he can't have an adverse reaction if he doesn't get vaccinated. Same way the majority of people who took the vaccine didn't get an adverse reaction to it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827177#Comment_117827177

oh and hot off the press here's more positive information feedback on boosters in from the Israelis showing them hugely reducing the risk of getting a Covid infection and secondly of getting seriously ill.

https://fortune.com/2021/08/30/covid-booster-shot-pfizer-biontech-israel-prevent-serious-illness/

Twelve days or more after a booster dose of vaccine made by Pfizer Inc. and its partner BioNTech SE, the risk of a confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection decreased 11.4-fold relative to people given only two jabs, researchers from Israel’s Ministry of Health and key scientific institutes found. A third dose was associated with at least a 10-fold reduction in the risk of falling seriously ill, according to the research released Friday.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827267#Comment_117827267

yes. got that in the end

then someone else decided to play semantics on the the term "adverse"....

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826641#Comment_117826641

Depends on your definition of adverse effects. I know a lot of people had mild side effects, myself included, which is surely not that big a deal.

Do you really believe people shouldn't get vaccinated, during a worldwide pandemic, because of mild swelling or minor localised pain for a day or two?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827304#Comment_117827304

Well the question is whether people need to be vaccinated for a third time in most cases, especially with so few around the world who haven't even had one yet and where there may be untapped reservoirs of variants.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827304#Comment_117827304

The person (science denier) I responded to said that it's "patently not true" that a majority of people had an adverse reaction from vaccination. I'm using the definition of "adverse reaction" given by the manufacturer and pointing out that ~90% of people have an adverse reaction, according to their definition.

Do you really believe people shouldn't get vaccinated, during a worldwide pandemic, because of mild swelling or minor localised pain for a day or two?

Where did I say anything like this? There are potential adverse reactions for which you could legitimately choose not to get vaccinated, but localised pain obviously isn't one.

floorpie

I'm shocked that anybody would answer yes to this question. There is as yet NO sufficient safety or efficacy data on boosters. I'm surprised too by the posters saying they'll trust their GP. You realise GPs are not qualified in any way to interpret "the science" here right?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827032#Comment_117827032

That's a press release by Pfizer about a non-public non-peer reviewed paper by Pfizer, not trial data

Irish Stones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117825643#Comment_117825643

Long Covid is likely to be a life-long condition and no treatments will ever be available.

I'm in this situation for over a year now, and no sign of improvement at all, so yes, it's a life-long condition.

Irish Stones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117826641#Comment_117826641

How is that people can have adverse reactions to placebo shots that, as far as I know, should be of saline solution?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827653#Comment_117827653

I'm sorry to hear that you're in that situation.

I can sympathise in that I have people close to me enduring a debilitating condition since May of last year. (bad fatigue mainly but some other unpleasant symptoms also - is that your main condition too?)

It is still quite "new" in terms of a medical condition (for this virus at least) and not all is understood at this point but the fact that this is widespread (and cynically but relevant, in wealthy countries) will mean that there will be focus on trying to find treatments for it, especially as the science moves on to have more scope for research past the initial focus on vaccines.

The research so far seems to indicate that this is more than likely an inflammatory condition primarily so treatments to quell or "quieten" this can hopefully be foreseen to be developed.

Irish Stones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827703#Comment_117827703

Thanks glasso.

I'm experiencing a very bad fatigue, as you say, an unnatural tiredness and weakness. There are days, or even part of a day, when I feel suddenly weak and tired and I would do nothing else but sleep. It can happen any time during the day.

Also I have a constant mind confusion, what they call it the "brain fog", when I can't focus on anything and sometimes I don't know what I'm doing or where I'm going. Or I forget things I have to do or have just done.

And a few other minor symptoms. And of all this since May last year, like the people close to you.

I've been told that these symptoms might be related to inflammatory processes in the cardiovascular system. If things get chronic, I don't think there will ever be any way to treat them.

Thanks for you interest!

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827693#Comment_117827693

Adverse reactions includes things like headaches, and they're assessed (in that trial) in the 7 days following injection. So I suppose they're largely unrelated, or perhaps the magic placebo effect

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827739#Comment_117827739

well I can only hope that "they" (doctors and medical scientists) can better understand this sooner rather than later and be able to diagnose things more specifically in people (a big issue right now as far as I can see) and use existing medicines more effectively on that basis (which would be the best start) and then maybe develop new ones

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827000#Comment_117827000

The inability of some countries to organise an efficient and fair mass vaccination programme is not a callous justification for doing nothing. I never said it was. What I implied was that before you rush millions of vaccines to some countries you have to make sure that they will not be wasted or used corruptly. That's a sad fact of life. You have to invest in staff training, logistics and other things for a vaccination programme to work.

Some places, like Ghana may have what it takes, others (DRC?) almost certainly don't.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827267#Comment_117827267

We don't know what reaction people will have with a booster who didnt have any initially.

I won't be finding out personally

virginmediapls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117827032#Comment_117827032

Cheers, saves me having to click search on google!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828007#Comment_117828007

you do know that you can't get a booster if you were never vaccinated in the first place 🙄

it wouldn't be a booster, it would be a first vaccine dose.

In medical terms, a booster dose is an extra administration of a vaccine after an earlier dose. After initial immunization, a booster injection or booster dose is a re-exposure to the immunizing antigen.

Parachutes

I'm convinced that there are people who would take a vaccine every morning if given half the chance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828148#Comment_117828148

completely non-sensical comment

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828182#Comment_117828182

Not that nonsensical. Some unfortunately do live in abject dread of COVID. We have some in the extended family and some posters would get one today if it were available, regardless of whether they need one or not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828250#Comment_117828250

other poster said that people would take vaccines every day "given half the chance"

that is totally non-sensical and projecting that onto the fact that some people are afraid of getting Covid - maybe people who it could quite conceivably kill if they are older or have certain afflictions, or maybe people just don't fancy rolling the dice with Long Covid is almost as bad as the original comment

people being willing to accept a booster vaccine does not mean that they live in dread - it mostly means that they actually want to get out and live life in the knowledge that they have a better chance than with no vaccine of not getting Covid in the first place (and by extension Long Covid) and secondly that if they did get it that they are not going to get very sick or worse.

brickster69

Moderna looking good

https://fortune.com/2021/08/31/moderna-covid-antibodies-pfizer-biontech-belgium-study/

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117828041#Comment_117828041

I was referring to those who had no reaction to the initial vaccine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829037#Comment_117829037

it is known for Pfizer which is the primary vaccine in Ireland

Testing of booster / third dose -> produced no worse effects that first or second dose on people who had received the two doses already

25th Aug 2021

Pfizer and BioNTech Initiate Rolling Submission of Supplemental Biologics License Application to U.S. FDA for Booster Dose of COMIRNATY® in Individuals 16 and Older

• New Phase 3 data show booster (third) dose of COMIRNATY induces significant SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibody titers and demonstrated a favorable safety and tolerability profile
• SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing titers against the wild-type strain one month after booster dose were 3.3 times the titers one month after the second dose
• Pfizer and BioNTech intend to file these data with the European Medicines Agency (EMA) and other regulatory authorities around the world in coming weeks

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210825005638/en/

The sBLA includes data from a Phase 3 clinical trial of 306 participants 18-55 years of age who received a booster (third) dose of COMIRNATY between 4.8 and 8 months after completing the two-dose primary regimen, with a median follow-up time of 2.6 months post-booster. The booster (third) dose of COMIRNATY elicited robust neutralizing antibodies to the wild-type strain in participants who were without evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection through one-month post-dose-three. SARS-CoV-2 50% neutralizing titers after the third dose were 3.3 times the titers after the second dose. The post-dose-three neutralizing titers met the prespecified 1.5-fold non-inferiority criterion for success and were statistically superior. Moreover, 99.5% of participants had a four-fold response after the third dose, compared to 98.0% after the second dose. The titers after dose three met the pre-specified 10% non-inferiority margin for the difference in the four-fold seroresponse rates.

The reactogenicity profile within seven days after the booster (third) dose was typically mild to moderate. The most common events included injection site pain, fatigue, headache, muscle and joint pain, and chills. The frequency of any severe systemic event after the booster dose was low. The frequency of reactogenicity was similar to or better than after dose two of the primary series. The adverse event profile was generally consistent with other clinical data for COMIRNATY.

Pfizer and BioNTech intend to submit these data to a peer-reviewed journal, as well as file these data with the European Medicines Agency (EMA) and other regulatory authorities around the world in the coming weeks.

Pfizer and BioNTech Initiate Rolling Submission of Supplemental Biologics License Application to U.S. FDA for Booster Dose of COMIRNATY® in Individuals 16 and Older | Pfizer

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-initiate-rolling-submission

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829138#Comment_117829138

They also said the benefits outweigh the risks. I'd love to see you trying to argue that with my wife after she ended up in a+e from the 2nd shot with chest pains and breathlessness. 😂

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829138#Comment_117829138

You keep posting this press release from the company that sells this product as if it means something.

The most important part of this press release is:

The sBLA includes data from a Phase 3 clinical trial of 306 participants 18-55 years of age

...

The frequency of any severe systemic event after the booster dose was low. 

It is an insufficient trial (like all booster trials so far) to correctly assess rates of severe adverse outcome. Boosters could have 100x the incidence of severe outcome of the 2nd dose, and this trial mightn't pick it up. The fact that they say rates of severe outcome "is low" already means that there's significant increase in severe outcome compared to the original Pfizer trial of 2 doses.

Second most important thing is "non-inferiority" compared to what? It's not a public paper so we can't know. Until the paper and data is released, this advertisement is garbage.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829246#Comment_117829246

Given that we were vaccinating 50,000+ a day at the peak of the rollout, that must be incredibly unusual.

Lumen

Looking at the charts of Israel vs Ireland vaccine rollout, we only have around 3% of the population fully vaccinated for more than six months (compared to around 50% in Israel), and that figure will rise to only 5% over the next month.

So it seems like there's no major rush to start the booster campaign, and we can let Israel be the guinea pigs again. Even when we do start, we'll only need to boost around a million before the end of the year, roughly corresponding to the over 60s, assuming a six-month interval from the second dose.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829274#Comment_117829274

It's the same data that is submitted to the FDA etc.

Do you expect somebody else to do Pfizer's testing for them or something? Who else is going to have that trial data?

Here's a study from the Israeli's on live booster shot (Pfizer) data which they already have being doing for a number of weeks - would they have altered it or something also?

Israeli data for 1 million people, age > 60, 4 million person-days with no booster vs 3.4 million person-days with booster

>10-fold reduction of severe illness

~11 fold reduction of infections

https://fortune.com/2021/08/30/covid-booster-shot-pfizer-biontech-israel-prevent-serious-illness/

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117829283#Comment_117829283

I've not seen the stats so can't comment.

BTW.. Have you finished your shed yet? 😁