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There will be a rise in incel related terror attacks

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭ 85603


    Easy. Answer is A. Being with someone you're unattracted to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ VillageIdiot71


    In fairness, if you wish him well this could dovetail with some of your musings a few years back.




  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ VillageIdiot71


    I've never felt so miscategorised, or seen my subculture's contribution to social life being so misunderstood.

    The original idiot was Socrates, who proudly announced that his only wisdom was to know that he knew nothing.

    As for Incels, and everyone else, don't we know that there's no point in blaming others for the position you find yourself in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭ DubInMeath


    I did enjoy the short documentary about ye a few years ago, very informative.

    As for the Incels, talk to your medical professional and get advice on different coping strategies and give the conspiracy theory grifters a wide berth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,839 ✭✭✭ Church on Tuesday


    Would you believe that the self entitlement is actually born out of insecurity. If you're not comfortable in your own skin you'll develop a chip on your shoulder and that then leads to resentment which then leads to anger and a general negative vibe about you. Women pick up on that vibe right away , men too if you pay enough attention to this sort, mostly what they say.

    I've met that type before in person and the root cause, overwhelmingly, was insecurity and not just being not true to yourself but also not being comfortable on your own.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 58,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    or being with someone you're unattracted to with sadness in her eyes. Ouch. 😁

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,138 ✭✭✭ Mister Vain


    I couldn't do it myself but maybe it is fairly common. A lot of my friends/colleagues over the years would have been with women I thought were unattractive. You could kind of tell that some of them were settling. Oddly enough the few that did manage to pull stunners were short arses.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 58,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Actually thinking more on it, of the people I know and have known, just as many if not more women "settled".

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,824 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    I don't view it as a sad situation and I don't think it's a unique situation either , I simply couldn't do any better, that's just how it is, no one deserves a sexy gorgeous woman

    Besides, no way would I ever get divorced or separate officially in Ireland, courts are too biased against men



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,824 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    There are numerous things which could cause someone to be insecure , a tough childhood for one , many guys who have " chips on their shoulder " or come across as slightly angry have no trouble getting a woman



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭ BrianD3


    I think it's pretty clear that women settle more than men. I have known women for over 20 years who have seemingly gone from being rabid heightists in their early 20s to "anything will do" in their mid thirties. They now claim that height doesn't matter to them and also claim that it never mattered to them. LMAO. Absolute nonsense, they are being pragmatic (not enough tall man about but those eggs aren't going to fertilise themselves and the mortgage won't pay itself either) and are also rationalising. They might marry a short man but then carry some resentment about doing this. This can also lead to domestic tension, mocking the husband for being useless at DIY and so on. Some will take this further and cheat.

    There's a lot of sneering on this forum about chore sex guy yet he has a point as do the incels with their betabuxx stuff. Most men are not physically attractive to women. Even if you have the raw material to be good looking it takes a lot of work in the gym to build a great body and to drop your bodyfat enough to bring out your facial structure.

    I remember a few years ago there was a social event in work where partners were invited. Myself and a (straight) female colleague were looking at the photos afterwards and she was commenting on everyone's appearance. It went as follows:

    He's a munter

    She's good loooking

    She's much better looking than he is

    He did well for himself.

    He's very short

    He has lost a lot of hair

    She's beautiful

    The state of him

    etc. etc.

    Apparently there was not ONE good looking man out of a large group.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,138 ✭✭✭ Mister Vain


    @BrianD3 I had to gain bodyfat to bring out my facial structure. It took me a while to grow into my face.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    All the focus on looks is a problem in itself as it doesn't reflect the real world. For a start, good looks doesn't equate to sexiness. Speaking for a friend here ahem, but he says the sexiest woman he ever had sex with on an ongoing basis was a short, tubby lady and the worst was a model-esque TV presenter. Riddle me that one.

    And that's before we even get into the glaringly obvious and far more important fact that good looks don't reflect anything about virtue or character... (Disney has a lot to answer for on this topic, I reckon) :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,939 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    There's someone for everyone.

    How do you know there is?

    The simple truth is that society has built up an unrealistic expectation for people through social conditioning. In China, there's over 30 million more men than women. In various towns in the US or other countries, the demographics can be heavily skewed towards one gender or another. Sure, people can leave their locations to move elsewhere where the opportunities are greater, but often people are limited in choice due to personal circumstances.. and that doesn't even include the host of personality/psychological issues that might anchor someone to a place with few options.

    While I have little sympathy for this Incel nonsense (since I blame social media and the industry of Psychology/social sciences for it), there are real issues with connecting with others. This is especially true in cultures where gender/social roles are reinforced (like small town America, with it's jock, cheerleader, etc crap), and people are forced into boxes of attitudes and behavior which conditions them over their teens/early 20s towards stereotypical types of behavior. Throw in the focus on beauty and superficial qualities which are both encouraged to continue and criticized all the same.

    Modern society loves double standards. To claim something is a negative, all the while encouraging that negative to continue to exist. The focus on beauty leads to unrealistic expectations, and personal anguish, but every piece of social media, the media itself, and many social interactions elevate those who fit the ideas of beauty to positions unavailable to others. While women are complaining about being objectified, other women are doing everything they can to be objectified (due to the financial/social benefits of being objectified).

    Now, I don't claim to understand this Incel crap very well, although I do understand how someone could become bitter about the whole thing. Dating is not easy. Navigating the increasingly murky world of inter-gender relationships is often hard, and when your own confidence is flaky, I could understand how a few negative experiences would set you to believing that you're victimized in some manner. I went through my own bitterness over experiences, both the difficulty in meeting others, and the negative experiences from actual dating. I carry those scars to this day... although, I found my own way of dealing with it all, without needing to blame anyone, or expect any kind of special treatment. But then, I didn't join a support group of people with similar bitterness, nor seek to wallow in that anger. I could easily have done that though, and so, I do feel some compassion towards incels. It's their own fault, and yet, not their own fault. That's simply life.

    Incels were born out of the social and technological changes of the last few decades, and if we want to deal with such a movement, we need to recognise that society is to blame here. There will be more attacks because extremism is encouraged, especially within American culture, but also throughout western culture(s). Which has been validated by Psychology, and social sciences, giving them reasons to be the way they are, rather than seeking to deal with the root problems. ie. A failing sense of community, the double standards within society regarding status and attraction, and the circle jerk-fest of social media.

    However, to get back to your post, there isn't someone for everyone. And TBH people need to recognise this, and not only that, accept that they can have meaningful and great lives without that other person. I'm in my mid 40s and single... and I love it. Especially when I compare my life with friends who are in relationships, and the changes those relationships have had on them over the decades (both physically and mentally). We need to accept that many people don't need these kind of relationships, and can be perfectly happy without them. (which is not to say that some intimacy is not desired)

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭ BrianD3


    I grew into my face too but it wasn't due to gaining bodyfat. I lost bodyfat (due to the gym) and around the same time the bones and skin were slowly changing for the better. More masculine, bigger chin and jaw and thicker looking skin. This happened years after puberty. I think the bone changes also resulted in improved symmetry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,696 ✭✭✭ EmmetSpiceland


    If all the hot women are settling for short tubby manchildren eventually why are you complaining?

    Obviously the “uggos” could be using their 20s to get in shape and work on their social skills to pull decent ladies then but if they’re going to be dropping their standards to the floor you could just wait it out, continue playing computer games, watching cartoons and consuming vast quantities of hardcore gonzo pornography.

    Just seems a real juxtaposition that the guys who seem to hate women the most are the ones who want them all to themselves. They’re also the ones who put in the least amount of “effort” but think they deserve the most “reward”.

    Good presentation, deportment, and a good “personality” go a long way for both guys and girls. Focus on sorting that out and it would go a long way to offsetting all that, misogynistic, anger and, excessive, self-pity.

    He/him/his

    “When you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression”.

    #bekind



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,138 ✭✭✭ Mister Vain


    What the hell is that last line you keep posting Wibbs? 🤣



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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Yes, but as you hint at.. the ancient greeks were quite nuanced about the whole thing and conscious of what lies beneath and within the surfaces of things. Heidegger's account of the historical evolution of 'truth' from aletheia to veritas, i.e. from Greek to Roman worldviews is arguable, but interesting in this context.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 58,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Oh their philosophers were alright, the aforementioned Socrates being one who waxed lyrical on the nature of beauty, but the everyday culture itself was very "lookist". The production of mirrors and hair and makeup products were big business and the first references to eating disorders in women come from then. The later Romans were more like puritanical Greeks in that they often looked for realism, warts and all.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Funny, I've just realized that my conceptions of ancient Greece are built entirely the work of its philosophers from the pre-Socratics forward and pays almost no attention to history in the form of the everyday experiences and values of ordinary people. Have to wait several centuries for Descartes and later the existentialists, for the primacy of the individual subject, ordinary experience (and ordinary people) to take its proper place at the center of philosophical enquiry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭ joe40


    The someone for everyone reference was flippant, and I know it doesn't work out that way for many people.

    I know Men and women (good people) who are single but would prefer to be in a relationship. A lot of factors can conspire to make that happen.

    I know people in dysfunctional relationships who would be better off single.

    I fully accept it can be difficult, my main point was getting angry and blaming the opposite sex was an extremely unattractive quality, and if someone was genuinely looking for a partner it would make it more difficult.

    The looks/attractiveness thing is an issue for many people and but it affects all genders. The incel community seem to think the attractive women owe them something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭ completedit


    There's a few things going on. Incels actually idolise Chad but at the same time despise the world that puts him on a pedestal. A lot of the incel community spend their time trying to reach Chad status through going to the gym, surgeries and doing whatever else they believe they need to do to be Chad. But for every 'optimist' there's the incel who believes this to be a waste of time and that these guys will never be attractive to the women they like because you cannot overcome biology.

    Then a lot of bitterness towards women comes from the fact that a women of a similar looks level to an incel will never lack for male attention and will have way more options than her male equivalent. This is fundamentally true. Just compare a male after a relationship ends and a female. Often the girl will have someone lined up whereas a guy might go several years without meeting somebody after a relationship breaks down.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Incels actually idolise Chad

    The plot thickens.

    So, they worship Chad but are also proudly homophobic? Hmm.

    A lot to unpack, but I do have to say that I don't envy any young person anyone trying to work out their sexuality in today's world.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But there are loads of women ('attractive' and 'unattractive' whatever those words mean) that are not attracted to Chads! How do the incels incorporate that reality?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭ completedit


    Yes, David Gandy, Tyler Maher, and The Greensboro jock(for the masc. lovers) amongst others are some of the demigods. There's a lot of debate about what women like, whether they want large dominant rugby players or handsome male models. The truth seems somewhere in between.



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