Interesting articles

jonnybigwallet

Looks like the French are coming to our rescue..."Vive la France 🇫🇷 "

Larbre34

Reports of conditions on the ground say it's far from that simple.

The French aren't commenting, even on a convoy of their nationals which was attacked in Khartoum, so something is obviously in the planning. If they are going to assist with Irish citizen evacuation again, we should certainly be sending an ARW unit with them to assist securing the operation.

sparky42

12 members of the DF are being sent (presuming ARW), andthe UK has evacuated their embassy staff and families already:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0423/1378622-defence-forces-sudan/

roadmaster

Jesus it like the defence forces have entered a bad circle of news at the moment. Nearly every news article is to with some issue. I hope the CoDF report starts getting results shown to give some good news

Larbre34

God speed to them and our partners. Unless some arrangements have been secured with the conflicting groups on the ground, this could make Kabul look like a picnic in the Park.

jonnybigwallet

A dozen is hardly and overwhelming force. Two dozen sounds like a better idea to me.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510935#Comment_120510935

It seems that at least the "Army" faction seems willing to help and allow the evacuation of foreigners, not sure about the other side or how much control they have over their fighters though.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510932#Comment_120510932

Pretty much, between the sadly now regular reports on manpower issues and the growing reports on conditions and conduct this year is unlikely to be good for them, short of some the bumper billions finding its way to the Defence budget its hard to see that improving and even then money won't solve the misconduct issues.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510946#Comment_120510946

Does it? That's nice.

Grassy Knoll

I think 12 is the figure as it is considered the outer bound the Government can send abroad without the triple lock approval kicking in … such an idiotic bind a sovereign nation has placed upon it self….

Anyways, presume it is the Rangers, also presume we are hitching a lift … again no reflection on the DF, but scandalous we lack the independent airlift capability to deploy at distance, at short notice …The government jet is not even fit for such a trip to get them to the region….

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510952#Comment_120510952

Indeed.

It would be an ideal day for a couple of AC-130J Ghostriders to orbit around the airfield but it seems whoever goes in there is on their own and will have to carry any defensive weapons on the Transports.

A perilous venture.

jonnybigwallet

I'm so happy I have made you happy...my dear dear friend.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511113#Comment_120511113

Given that Martin has now suggested that he backs reviewing the Triple lock, hopefully that act of insanity might go away, though I imagine the Greens will be the major issue of the government parties. As for airlift, even if the jet was operational and reliable enough to go all that way it really wouldn’t be of much use even for the 12 surely?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511238#Comment_120511238

Grow up you fool. 12 Irish soldiers are being sent into the most perilous tactical situation faced by any DF unit, perhaps since East Timor, certainly since Mali, and you're at your usual Johnny ballbag shite talk. You're just a dickhead.

roadmaster

Taken from the times below

The plan is to travel onwards on either French, German or Dutch military aircraft to an airport in Sudan.

Does our state have no shame that we have to keep asking for lifts?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511343#Comment_120511343

All you need do is compare the tactical situation to the other nations' approach.

The Brits last night sent in 1,200 personnel of the 16 Air Assault Brigade (Army), Royal Marines and RAF pilots and crew with their operation.

Even if Ireland had achieved LoA3 and then some, we couldn't do that.

But yes, the Triple Lock is not fit for purpose with Irish citizenry living in numbers all over the globe. It should be binned as policy and the deployment of Irish DF personnel be entirely a matter for the Government and Dáil Éireann.

jonnybigwallet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511498#Comment_120511498

You're a lovely old chap!

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511521#Comment_120511521

To be fair, it’s 5+ years too late to be able to generate any other option but to bum lifts. Even the couple of years since Kabul just isn’t enough time to change that even if the government actually focused on that. Perhaps the best option for the short term is actually formalise an agreement with a nation that has the capability to deploy globally while we take steps to sort our **** out.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511527#Comment_120511527

That’s very true, no question even if we had LoA3+ right now we’d still have to work with others in this situation, however in such a case we would be able to actually deploy a meaningful capacity both in the ARW and in transport capabilities.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511343#Comment_120511343

The greens are a spent force. Grassroots is turning on leadership, and many TDs and councillors from outside Dublin are leaving the party. They'll be wiped out next election. Until then they'll do nothing in government that might cause the house to divide. i.e, they'll do what they're told.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511856#Comment_120511856

So join NATO? SAC?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511974#Comment_120511974

Agree with you about their future prospects, but given their grassroots position (largely) on "neutrality" I can still see Ryan and Co. being a pain in the arse about changing the Triple Lock, and actually getting the public to vote on it...

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511977#Comment_120511977

If we were talking about a grown up discussion/debate on foreign and defence policy, yes instead at best I figure something like the never disclosed RAF agreement, as in we will try and get an agreement/understanding from someone and then knowing us do nothing to change our capabilities.

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511343#Comment_120511343

Agree, on both scores, ability to actually get there without malfunction plus payload capability to fly the Rangers there …

Topgear on Dave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510124#Comment_120510124

And you can be sure they let all warring sides know that if anyone so much as LOOKED in their direction they would be obliterated.

Sending only 12 troops sounds like sheer madness.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513040#Comment_120513040

Even leaving out our personnel issues, there’s the Triple Fecking Lock. And of course the fact that we have to ask someone not to fly some of their people to give us slots for ours, how many do you think other nations are willing to give up?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513040#Comment_120513040

We don't have a choice. At the moment, the Irish Triple Lock policy prevents the Government from deploying any more than a dozen Troops overseas without the mission having a United Nations mandate.

This means, in effect, that if a mission that the Irish Government may be interested in participating, gets vetoed in the UN Security Council by Russia or China for political reasons that may have nothing at all to do with the actual mission itself, prevents Ireland from participating for the lack of a mandate.

This is exactly the reason the Government now wants to abandon the Triple Lock and leave Irish Troop deployment purely in the hands of the Government and the Dáil, given that Russia is now a nefarious actor on the international stage.

In any case, even if we wanted to send more Army Rangers to Sudan now, they'd still need a lift from other EU air forces so we'd probably only send 2 or 3 dozen max regardless.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513083#Comment_120513083

Let’s be honest, Russias recent action isn’t the first sign of the insanity of leaving such an important act of a state in the hands of other nations, to this day I have no idea what the government was thinking creating the Triple Lock at the time, I mean it’s not like China or Russia have ever not been at “something” not that the 3 Western nations are entirely spotless either…

Larbre34

True that. Just cowardice or abdication of responsibility of successive Irish Governments since 1960 so.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513189#Comment_120513189

Nah it's perfect....something needs to be done..."Sorry can't..not our fault though!"