Interesting articles

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510952#Comment_120510952

Indeed.

It would be an ideal day for a couple of AC-130J Ghostriders to orbit around the airfield but it seems whoever goes in there is on their own and will have to carry any defensive weapons on the Transports.

A perilous venture.

jonnybigwallet

I'm so happy I have made you happy...my dear dear friend.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511113#Comment_120511113

Given that Martin has now suggested that he backs reviewing the Triple lock, hopefully that act of insanity might go away, though I imagine the Greens will be the major issue of the government parties. As for airlift, even if the jet was operational and reliable enough to go all that way it really wouldn’t be of much use even for the 12 surely?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511238#Comment_120511238

Grow up you fool. 12 Irish soldiers are being sent into the most perilous tactical situation faced by any DF unit, perhaps since East Timor, certainly since Mali, and you're at your usual Johnny ballbag shite talk. You're just a dickhead.

roadmaster

Taken from the times below

The plan is to travel onwards on either French, German or Dutch military aircraft to an airport in Sudan.

Does our state have no shame that we have to keep asking for lifts?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511343#Comment_120511343

All you need do is compare the tactical situation to the other nations' approach.

The Brits last night sent in 1,200 personnel of the 16 Air Assault Brigade (Army), Royal Marines and RAF pilots and crew with their operation.

Even if Ireland had achieved LoA3 and then some, we couldn't do that.

But yes, the Triple Lock is not fit for purpose with Irish citizenry living in numbers all over the globe. It should be binned as policy and the deployment of Irish DF personnel be entirely a matter for the Government and Dáil Éireann.

jonnybigwallet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511498#Comment_120511498

You're a lovely old chap!

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511521#Comment_120511521

To be fair, it’s 5+ years too late to be able to generate any other option but to bum lifts. Even the couple of years since Kabul just isn’t enough time to change that even if the government actually focused on that. Perhaps the best option for the short term is actually formalise an agreement with a nation that has the capability to deploy globally while we take steps to sort our **** out.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511527#Comment_120511527

That’s very true, no question even if we had LoA3+ right now we’d still have to work with others in this situation, however in such a case we would be able to actually deploy a meaningful capacity both in the ARW and in transport capabilities.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511974#Comment_120511974

Agree with you about their future prospects, but given their grassroots position (largely) on "neutrality" I can still see Ryan and Co. being a pain in the arse about changing the Triple Lock, and actually getting the public to vote on it...

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511977#Comment_120511977

If we were talking about a grown up discussion/debate on foreign and defence policy, yes instead at best I figure something like the never disclosed RAF agreement, as in we will try and get an agreement/understanding from someone and then knowing us do nothing to change our capabilities.

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511343#Comment_120511343

Agree, on both scores, ability to actually get there without malfunction plus payload capability to fly the Rangers there …

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510124#Comment_120510124

And you can be sure they let all warring sides know that if anyone so much as LOOKED in their direction they would be obliterated.

Sending only 12 troops sounds like sheer madness.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513040#Comment_120513040

Even leaving out our personnel issues, there’s the Triple Fecking Lock. And of course the fact that we have to ask someone not to fly some of their people to give us slots for ours, how many do you think other nations are willing to give up?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513040#Comment_120513040

We don't have a choice. At the moment, the Irish Triple Lock policy prevents the Government from deploying any more than a dozen Troops overseas without the mission having a United Nations mandate.

This means, in effect, that if a mission that the Irish Government may be interested in participating, gets vetoed in the UN Security Council by Russia or China for political reasons that may have nothing at all to do with the actual mission itself, prevents Ireland from participating for the lack of a mandate.

This is exactly the reason the Government now wants to abandon the Triple Lock and leave Irish Troop deployment purely in the hands of the Government and the Dáil, given that Russia is now a nefarious actor on the international stage.

In any case, even if we wanted to send more Army Rangers to Sudan now, they'd still need a lift from other EU air forces so we'd probably only send 2 or 3 dozen max regardless.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513083#Comment_120513083

Let’s be honest, Russias recent action isn’t the first sign of the insanity of leaving such an important act of a state in the hands of other nations, to this day I have no idea what the government was thinking creating the Triple Lock at the time, I mean it’s not like China or Russia have ever not been at “something” not that the 3 Western nations are entirely spotless either…

Larbre34

True that. Just cowardice or abdication of responsibility of successive Irish Governments since 1960 so.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513189#Comment_120513189

Nah it's perfect....something needs to be done..."Sorry can't..not our fault though!"

mupper2

Bit of news, Spain has lifted a group of Irish people out in a larger set of foreign nationals.

Grassy Knoll

It seems from reports hostilities on the ground have intensified with a near collapse in communications across the city. The window to extract- what must be several thousand expats - seems to be closing fast. It is unclear if some force eg the UK holds the airport and what its operational state is. Kabul increasingly looks more like a picnic in comparison….

roadmaster

I wonder will this change any thinking in buying more the one transport casa?

Edit: it looks like MM maybe trying to do something!

https://www.newstalk.com/news/sudan-evacuation-illustrates-weakness-of-irish-defence-policy-martin-1458542

Larbre34

Yeah MM said this morning on radio that he intends to pursue a strategic lift partnership, presumably along the lines of the two (?) that exist across 6 or 7 States on the continent.

It doesn't have to be a NATO apparatus of course, though the usual fools will be equating it to acquiring ICBMs and putting them in the Burren, but however. There aren't many neutrals left of course, but maybe an opportunity exists to partner with Austria, Switzerland and Malta or something along those lines. Obviously a France/ Spain / Portugal combination would suit us most but that's for a conversation at EU level.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514810#Comment_120514810

Malta doesn’t really add anything, they are in the same state as we are with no lift capability, though if we did develop something that might help them as well I suppose given our contacts with them, as for anyone else? It makes sense of course for us and arguably at an EU level to build this, and it’s not the first time it’s been talked about, but again surely we would have to up what we could bring to such an arrangement?

Larbre34

Let's be honest, we may not have pilots or hangarage, but we can well afford an A400, or a half share in one without any difficulty.

We also have Shannon which is an ideal strategic lift hub.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515115#Comment_120515115

I think pretty much everyone could agree with that, as with everything with the DF is comes down to public and political will, the options are there and well understood at this stage, just needs us to actually do something.

roadmaster

Is MM talking about the EATC that the air corps wanted to join if they had got the two World food casas? Either way no one will want us joining there party if we have only one transport aircaft.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515190#Comment_120515190

Wonder if they are still an option? Even as a short term stop gap?

sparky42

This is a bit of a new twist, with “a Government spokesperson” saying that the two MPAs when they arrive can be reconfigured for such emergencies for more cargo capacity, wonder how quick that would be in such an emergency situation?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/0424/1378676-sudan-evacuation/

roadmaster

Minister why have we not got are new casa aircraft watching the russian ships. Mmmm we had to send them to africa!

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515392#Comment_120515392

They can, but it would be a sub-standard solution for all concerned.

The 235s were grand for the odd air ambulance flight or repatriation a prisoner, but with all the consoles and other shite on board, how many could be evacuated, 20 or 30?

It's a mistake for the Government to bring that sort of a fudge into the mix.