Interesting articles

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120883651#Comment_120883651

There are any number of articles referring to the proposed purchase, I just chose that one, as it was not behind a pay wall.

Any poor editorial doesn't change the basic information.

Manic Moran

Well, to quote the Irish Times article on the matter... https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/07/20/irelands-defence-forces-to-get-new-us-style-camouflage-uniforms/

"The current camouflage uniforms, which are unique to the Defence Forces and are sometimes lightheartedly referred to as “Paddyflage” by other militaries, will be phased out over the coming years."

Consider. The term is well familiar to me in Texas, and I like to think I have a reasonable knowledge of Irish geography, even without being a collector

Manic Moran

Ok. But that doesn't make the article wrong or poorly researched. Like it or not, it is a name associated with the pattern. May as well complain about an article from 1943 calling the US tanks "Shermans". Only foreigners and reporters called it that, to an American soldier it was the M4 or Medium.

Larbre34

IPDPM, really rolls off the tongue.

I don't know why this annoys you so much, military kit has a long history of contractions and colloquialisms.

HMMWV - Hum-vee - Hummer.

UH-1 - Huey

OH-6 - Loach

B-52 Stratofortress - Big Ugly Fat F*cker

Camouflage worn by Irish DF - Paddyflage.

Larbre34

Only you think so. Don't be so precious.

davetherave

I'd have to agree with Dohvolle, in 15 years I've never heard anyone wearing it call it paddyflage.

Manic Moran

And in 20 years driving large American vehicles, I have never heard anyone driving one refer to it as a Yank Tank. Yet there is very little confusion over what they are when you use the term in appropriate conversation. Even the term “Yank” is used by everyone except the Yanks. Does that mean that an article which refers to Americans as Yanks or a Lincoln Continental as a yank tank is poorly researched?

The term exists and is in common use. The lack of use of the term by the users doesn’t invalidate the statement, and the fact that I refer to the pattern as “Irish DPM” and have never personally used the term “Paddyflage” doesn’t preclude me from accepting that.

mupper2

This feels like a circular argument by people bored on the weekend...

Flinty997

Hang on ...is the Steyr not a Gun? What is it?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888195#Comment_120888195

Universal infantry rifle.

Flinty997

Isn't a rifle a "rifled" gun

Flinty997

A lot of waffle it certainly is lol.

Paddyflage is a new one on me. But googling it gets results going back back quite a while.

Manic Moran

Waffe means 'weapon', no? Indeed, stick 'gewehr' into Google Translate from German and it comes out as... gun.

It seems to me a rifle is a type of gun. Gun being the overarching name, the subset of weapons which propels by expansive force (Railguns don't really fit into this, in fairness), then you have gun divided into pieces and firearms, then the firearms are crew served or individual, the individual being handguns (Revolvers and pistols, mainly) and long guns, the latter being shotguns, and rifles. Rifles themselves also being a term used for pieces (eg USS Iowa had 16-inch rifles) so in itself a bit of a matter of common usage. In fairness, handgun itself used to refer to long-barreled weapons as well, to distinguish them from the towed guns of the era, though it's no longer a common usage. And then there are the subsets of rifle, battle rifle, assault rifle, etc.

So it's all a bit of a silly argument.

As an aside, the oldest usage of 'paddyflauge' on Boards.ie is 2007. "Paddyflage" is 2008.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120888586#Comment_120888586

Not particularly.

Flinty997

This thread is poorly named.

Changing subject...since some seem to be digging a hole for themselves.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/trench-warfare-in-ukraine-casts-old-school-army-training-in-different-light

mupper2

https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/xocean-opens-usv-technical-centre-in-ireland/

Larbre34

Oh goodie, because we're going to need a U-Navy before long, maybe XOcean can fix us up.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895397#Comment_120895397

Interesting new industry.

Manic Moran

Unmanned everything is pretty much the common-sense next step for many sectors. As an aside, a self-driving vehicle managed to complete an off-road course faster than a manned one for the first time about a month ago. The difference was that the AI driver didn't care about any cargo or crew, so it took obstacles at full belt where the human driver would slow down to minimize the impact. So they're still working on that...

Manic Moran

After a determined effort, I have finally finished all four days of the Consultative Forum. The panels by the historians and the four other European countries were particularly interesting.

However, the audience, Christ. It’s like Sinn Feinn and Peace and Neutrality had nothing else to do and showed up while everyone else was at work. And instead of posing sensible relevant questions, they sucked up time with irrelevant position statements, oftentimes divorced from reality. (Norway blew up Nordstream? Really?). Or TD McCarthy kept taking the floor saying the same bloody thing every day.

Oh well, was still informative. I wonder what the actual viewer numbers are, though, the DFA YouTube hit counters are the low four-digits.

roadmaster

I think newstalk may have read the press release from the department wrong. I dont think irish troops are going to Ukraine but rather a fellow EU nation to train ukraine?

https://www.newstalk.com/news/thirty-irish-soldiers-leave-for-ukraine-today-1491152

Larbre34

To be fair, the press release does not specify where the training is to take place. But, any cursory background reading by a correspondent or researcher would quickly reveal that EUMAM operations only happen in on EU territory, in Poland, Germany, Romania and so on.

Piss poor journalism as usual when it comes to foreign and defence matters in Ireland. Why it didn't occur to some online editor that it may have been a slightly larger story if DF personnel were indeed being deployed to wartorn Ukraine, I do not know.....

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903728#Comment_120903728

Looks like Newstalk seen there Mistake

https://www.newstalk.com/news/thirty-irish-soldiers-leave-for-ukraine-today-1491152

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905168#Comment_120905168

I think you are being to kind to them id say it was sheer incompetence

There’s a fascinating piece in todays indo on how storm keating deals with grief , it’s very long and concerns a social media post in which she refers to her current state of mind after the death of her brother in law, this one sentence will save you all that bother

“Today Storm posted a poignant note on her Instagram with the caption "grief" with a white heart emoji.”

an entire article

Larbre34

I'm pretty sure you have the wrong forum

jonnybigwallet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933469#Comment_120933469

Couldn't read the entire article as not a subscriber. I do recall an article a long time ago that the budget for food was not really adequate and that it was significantly less per person fed per day than the budget for the prison service. So it's no wonder the chefs feel they are doing a thankless job trying to keep their customers happy when faced with trying to put nourishing and attractive food on the table on a budget that really only runs to junk food. Not the kind of career you want after spending years honing your skills at catering college and working your way up in the profession......

roadmaster

Is there anything to be said for a committe Meeting for the love of fuc@ing jesus

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/08/04/defence-forces-chief-to-be-called-before-committee-to-discuss-recruitment-of-women/

Flinty997

Isn't that the modern problem companies complaining they can't get staff, people saying they can't get hired.

Dinosaur of an organisation.

mupper2

https://www.thejournal.ie/army-ranger-wing-operators-wicklow-6117654-Aug2023/

mupper2

Double post, delete please.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120942560#Comment_120942560

Thats a sobering statistic. Very sobering.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120945119#Comment_120945119

Such as the fact the Navy are down to one ship again for Patrolling our waters.

That theres a strong chance Bristow may try to gut the Air Corps No.3 Ops wing to fullfill the SAR contract.

That the reserve really does not exist anymore or that fact the army are struggling to man and operate every base in the country apart Finner Camp.

jonnybigwallet

I think that's because there has been an outbreak of covid on a second vessel and it has had to return to Cobh and the ship's company are in quarantine.....

Larbre34

Tell me now my national service idea is laughable.

Lads, we need a robust military.

Yes, service conditions, remuneration and pensions do need to be addressed, but they can never possibly match private sector technical budgets.

And so, if people won't serve voluntarily, they must serve compulsorily.

And before you ask, yes I would absolutely serve in reserve. I don't think my 60 year old knees on my 45 year old body would exactly qualify me for the infantry, but I have excellent professional skills in project and organisational management, I'd happily work in operational support or wherever I could be useful.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120946136#Comment_120946136

I think the issue is not so much parity with private sector. But it's not viable even for those more interested in a life in the services then a regular job. By viable I mean basic standards of living.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120944216#Comment_120944216

But you're missing the optimistic side of this, if you're FG there are so many services you could privatize if the DF were hollowed out.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120947378#Comment_120947378

See always a silver lining and a contract to dish out to the wife's brothers friend who just happens to own a tree clearing service set up in the last 6 months..

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120946136#Comment_120946136

It's laughable. Politicians want to get elected/re-elected and any party that puts this forward would be laughed off the ballot. Moreover the very idea is flawed, we are where we are because the generations of Governments have had no interest in spending anything close to a reasonable amount on defence. Having a compulsory national service will do nothing to change that no have any meaningful impact on our issues.

Larbre34

This is a whole new European and Global security paradigm.

There was little or no threat to our infrastructure and resources in the FEMPI era and so bad and all as the raid on the DF, it was justifiable by the Government of the day.

The adoption of the CoDF report and corresponding commitment to budgetary increase show we most certainly are in a different era.

We need personnel for all this shiny new gear and so putting them in place in an era of growth and full employment with salary competitiveness, requires brand new thinking.

If all other attempted solutions to this are exhausted, whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, must be the answer.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949302#Comment_120949302

What “shiny new gear”? We have no evidence of anything like that yet, and “all other attempted solutions”… What solutions have been tried?

Grassy Knoll

I’m afraid me boys, if with The current Tanaiste / min defence, current finance minister and previous minister for defence all in Cork adjacent to Haulbowline can’t sort allowances for naval personnel where the case is obvious - more ships than men / women to crew them with at least half the fleet tied up, tangible and growing strategic interests to be defended there is little prospect of any change ….

as I have stated before the DF establishment level is pie in the sky stuff for the short to medium term unfortunately there is not the willingness to spend the money necessary, plus with full employment few want that life

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120949302#Comment_120949302

As other smarter people have talked about, the World right now seems to be going through an extended late 1938 early 39 period, people can see the crises (plural) coming, some are preparing for it, some think it can be stopped others don't even believe it's happening....Ireland is unique in that we think it's happening, don't want to do anything about it but if it does someone else will take care of us.

The difference between now and 1939 is that w won't have a cathartic 6 year World war to reset the World, we'll just have decade after decade of omni-crisis that'll make WWII and the Cold war look relatively easy.

roadmaster

Ah Yes Leo we must do more Monitoring. Any Ideas Leo?

https://www.ft.com/content/bfb26fd9-c1f5-49af-af97-f70351b20451

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951301#Comment_120951301

Now now, Defence and Finance have said things are just fine and stop with all this complaining…

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951301#Comment_120951301

There is a business opportunity for someone with the wherewithal to set up a security company with boats....

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951989#Comment_120951989

If there was only some sort of armed state group that the government could invest in that could do this work

Larbre34

I've always said, one of the few motivators of any Irish government to address something seriously, is embarrassment on the international stage over it.

The X case, for example, didn't get much international coverage in the early 90s, but in the social media age, poor Savita Halapanavar became world news. And then bingo, we had legalised termination within two years.

Be interesting to see what all this chatter results in.

Grassy Knoll

Defence and Finance ultimately respond to Government political will, irrespective of official approach. Currently the political will to change this is only half there - the allowances etc to attract & retain manpower need to be approved - if health and housing have billions literally flittered away on political whims - if we are serious about operationalising a modest LoA2 it is hard to see why we can’t pay the money. It seems to me if multinationals start to point out our glaring security gaps that could be one catalyst- clearly old cod about ships being ‘refitted’, operational reserve etc - euphuism for rusting away at some quay wall or our sham ‘neutrality’ where our neighbours tend to our security needs hasn’t shamed them just yet…

for what it is worth it strikes me a lot more of the public are aware of these deficiencies and would support the necessary spend for even this ‘entry level’ spend

roadmaster

Topic this morning on Pat kenny about the need for a Civilian Intelligence Agency as there is to many gaps being left between Garda Crime & Security and Defence Forces J2 along with the lack of clear guidance of who does what. AGS actually made a submission to the Commision on Defence to clarfiy roles. The podcast is not up on the newstalk website yet