Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263451#Comment_118263451

Its only relentless if companies agree to this

BuildTheWall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263464#Comment_118263464

If you don't like differing opinions you shouldn't be on a discussion forum. Still yet to prove how anyone's an "anti vaxxer" though, that's some label to stick on someone.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263363#Comment_118263363

Personally I don't think additional restrictions are necessary, but we're not as far ahead of Germany and Austria as we'd like to believe, in terms of overall population covered. Ireland 78% Vs 71% Germany & 70% Austria if I'm reading it correctly.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

BanditLuke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263498#Comment_118263498

OK Real Donald Trump. Oh sorry Build the Wall.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263506#Comment_118263506

Overall population is not important if almost all the deaths are in the elderly / those with serious underlining conditions.

Shilock

We've a most of the adults vaccinated now, I think it's time they got rid of the passports and left people make their own choice.

I'm vaccinated and I feel safe, so what's the point in more restrictions for the unvaccinated. All its doing is creating division and apartheid. Although there's a few of my vaccinated friends worried about the fact they could have their passports revoked if they don't get a booster. They feel like they were cohersed into it. As I said I haven't darkened the doors of any establishment looking for passports. I think it's ridiculous.

We're all in this together my ass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263114#Comment_118263114

You don't have to take the vaccine if you want. Just won't be able to go to the gym or stay in a hotel. Your bodily integrity is intact. These moves are to protect the unvaccinated.

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263464#Comment_118263464

If you call everyone an antivaxer who questions the effectiveness of the vaccines as stated when they were supposedly our way out of all this then everyone is an antivaxer at some point by your own definition.

1. Deltas is not 10x more deadly than Alpha. This is verifiably true. Its basically on par.
2. If only a tiny percentage of the population is left to be vaccinated then the threat of covid is effectively 94% less just by shear virtue of the vaccines (since they work, correct?).
3. If we removed 94% of the people who died from covid during the first wave would we not be claiming triumph?

Your argument is basically what the left have done. They move further and further into the zone of complete stupidity that when they look back to the centre they think everyone is "far right"

If you are so **** confident of the vaccines effectiveness then 5-6% of people who aren't vaccinated shouldn't be of any condern.

As I said in point 3. If we removed 94% of deaths counted as covid in the first wave in 2020 would you even consider covid to be a threat?

That would only be like 300 deaths. It wouldn't even be worth talking about.

Do the vaccines work?

Yes?

Cool, we don't need restrictions.

How about instead of talking about anti vaxers you put your pro vaccine stance to the test and argue we don't need restrictions because the jabs work and protect those who are jabbed???

You wont respond with any logical argument.

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263626#Comment_118263626

Back again with your silly comments.

"its to protect the unvaccinated"

So you agree its not about spread. Which means that if its about nanny safety of the individual why aren't you wanting to ban people from other activities that could cause them harm?

You know if we ban pubs and alcohol right now we would save many more lives than if we banned unvaccinated people. Would free up the health care service for all really quickly year on year.

Bit of a puritan prohibitionist stance isn't it?

"this is for your own safety" - Sounds a bit fascist to me pal.

If you actual stance is that the government can tell you how to live your life for your own good then at what point do you want to draw that line?

BruteStock

Nail Boylan is the only person to fully acknowledge the governments epic mishandling of this pandemic. I fully agree with the sentiments expressed on his show today that Holohan , Glynn , Donnelly etc should all be replaced. They are useless and are only leading around in circles. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Its going to be a slap across the face of this nation if more restrictions are announced today. At this stage more restrictions is just state sponsored bullying and intimidation. Every new lockdown and restriction the impose only proves the last ones were for nothing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263675#Comment_118263675

I find it quite disgusting how NPHET casually play with personal freedoms.

In their letter to the government today, Holohan says that the Omicron variant poses serious concern in the coming weeks, with as many as 400 in ICU in January should the variant become dominant.

In the same article, he concedes that "...it's impossible to quantify" the risk and that little is known about the Omicron variant.

So rather than being "led by the science", we're being led by speculation - at a time of mass adult double-triple vaccinations and widespread natural community immunity; and only 500 people in hospital (nowhere near the 2,000 peak of January and no evidence this will resurface, either - not that the health service couldn't handle it; they could).

The day NPHET disband should be a national holiday; they're a total and utter disgrace.

And I say that as a vaccine supporter etc.

noserider

When do the new travel restrictions start? Midnight Saturday or midnight Sunday?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263665#Comment_118263665

I don't see how you could infer from my comment that I think unvaccinated people are less likely to spread covid making the rest of your comment a bit..... bizarre. But over 50% people in ICU from 6% of the population. The odds are a lot worse if you are unvaccinated.

mikekerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263626#Comment_118263626

Is it not the job of the vaccine to protect the vaccinated ? It's clearly a coercein tool I think the majority of people recognise this now.

BuildTheWall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263626#Comment_118263626

My vaccine status is my own business but can we just go back to some simple facts again:

1.The virus is not significantly dangerous to vast swathes of the population, the only people it is even moderately dangerous to are the elderly, infirm and immunocompromised. Considering most of the unvaccinated are under 50, they are at a close to 0% chance of dying from Covid-19. We don't live in a risk adverse society, we all accept some level of risk in our lives to be able to live and do basic daily activities.

2.Cases and hospitalisations are down yet for some reason our CMO and "advisory" group are implementing new restrictions. Where's the "follow the science" in that?

3.96% of our population are double jabbed, some tripled. If the vaccines are so great than the vaccinated have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated, especially considering the the vast majority have nothing to fear from this virus regardless of their vaccine status anyway. Being fully vaccinated reduces the miniscule risk of getting badly sick from Covid down even further.

4.Someones medical status doesn't forfeit them of their right to be able to live freely and avail of basic amenities in society. In 2019 we lived in a free, liberal and enlightened society where the rights of the individual were championed. This is the way we should continue to live, unless of course you don't agree with free society. In that case what do you advocate we should replace that with?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263730#Comment_118263730

Yes, usually that the way vaccines work. Unsure what that has to do with my post though.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263730#Comment_118263730

Didn't you hear? The vaccine only works if everyone gets it. But it doesnt stop you spreading covid, it only protects yourself against serious illness and death. But also everyone needs to get it or it doesnt work. Magic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263737#Comment_118263737

In response to 1)

How come greater than 50% of people in ICU are unvaccinated then? if half the beds in ICU are taken up by the unvaccinated, do you not see the issue?

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263688#Comment_118263688

It certainly isn't right how much power is wielded by a handful of people.

From what I read the omicron flavour hasn't overburdened the hospitals in South Africa where it originated from , and they have a population of 30M+ unvaccinated. . The EU member states are far more hysterical about Omicron than SA is. Any more restrictions imposed is just a kneejerk overreaction by people who should be thrown out on their arse!

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263716#Comment_118263716

Again missing the point. I never said they couldn't spread. You argument against banning them is now purely on the risk of them ending up in ICU which is tiny. (Don't be so dense to keep claiming 50%. 50% of a small number is still a small number)

I can't actually believe you have the job you claim.

• You claim that vaccines work
• 94% of people who are eligible are vaccinated
• Risk of covid to total population should now be just a tiny percentage of the risk it was in 2020
• Covid is according to you and the those who say the vaccines are super effective basically an even small threat that it was to begin with. Deaths should be way way down yes?
• If covid is now a tiny threat to the population at risk (ill give you those 18+ even though its more like 50+) then how can you argue for restrictions on unvaccinated people based on their own safety without arguing for the banning of other harmful and avoidable actions
• Banning drinking
• Banning excess eating
• Banning driving
• All 3 more deadly to the everyone than covid is to the unvaccinated & vaccinated.

Why is covid the hill you are willing to die on?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263744#Comment_118263744

Magic doesn't take away from the fact that 50% of people in ICU are unvaccinated. Covid isn't the only show in town, what about cardiac arrests, life threatening asthma attacks, severe trauma victims? Where do they go when half the beds are taken up by unvaccianted people?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263758#Comment_118263758

I think you are missing the point of knock on effect of unvaccinated people taking up ICU beds leading to preventable deaths in other areas?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263768#Comment_118263768

When have we had preventable deaths occurring due to the unvaccinated taking over ICU?

Our ICUs have not been at capacity yet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263777#Comment_118263777

This is only possible at the moment due to cancellation of elective surgeries that need HDU/ICU support post-operatively.

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263768#Comment_118263768

People driving, drinking, smoking, over eating has a knock on effect to ICU beds leading to preventable deaths in other areas. Better ban those?

Think about what you saying!

If we went back in time to 2020 and I told you I could snap my fingers and instead of covid being 100% strength it was only 5%.

And instead of 3500-4000 deaths we would only have 200. (5%)

So there are 2 choices here.

Vaccines work = Great no restrictions

Vaccines don't work as well as intended = can't discriminate against those unvaccinated.

Any 18 year old unvaccinated man is not having a knock on effect to ICU bed numbers also. Not sure why you think it makes sense to ban him from social life?

PicardWithHair

https://jpst.it/2Ha-3

This is from the telegraph - original article - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/03/booster-vaccines-create-t-cells-protect-against-covid-variants/

Thank God ... this is the last variant, the booster will protect against all future variants ... phewww....

hold firm lads ... better days ahead...

BuildTheWall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263843#Comment_118263843

That's not a news article. That's an advertisement for Pfizer.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263852#Comment_118263852

It was from the most comprehensive study into boosters that has ever been undertaken. It was just published in the Lancet and compared 6 vaccines to see which ones worked the best and the safety of them. Judging by Valneva's share price today it is safe to say it won't be getting used as a booster.

A good thread on it if you are interested

https://twitter.com/apsmunro/status/1466707651732119556

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263926#Comment_118263926

That study doesnt come to any conclusion that boosters protect against any future variants, only that they protect against Delta to similar degree against wild-type (original).

It explicitly says there was no evaluation of alpha, beta, or variants of concern.

Stormyteacup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118263460#Comment_118263460

Thanks for that. Interesting indeed - and very measured, well worth the watch. It’s a pity we can’t have inputs like that on primetime or morning talk radio.