Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286552#Comment_118286552

Are we blaming NPHET for the weather now?

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118286621#Comment_118286621

The law of attraction and all that. They attract misery.

Richard Hillman

Really looking forward to the outdoor summer this year. Maybe the Tony will send the Garda with Water Cannons this time. Make us feel like we are at a Waterpark.

Was in the gym tonight. Significantly quieter than normal. Guess a lot of people in my local gym were unvaccinated. Glad it makes the gym environment safer.

Dr. Bre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287755#Comment_118287755

Maybe storm Barra kept them away ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287761#Comment_118287761

Big weather is almost as nefarious as big pharma!

BuildTheWall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287755#Comment_118287755

Think the young, fit and health conscious people at the gym were safe whether they were vaccinated or not. Probably more chance of dying from a freak treadmill accident than covid.

There's almost an argument to be made that we were ahead of the curve, given that a lot of countries are now applying similar restrictions.

kirk.

Is this Omicron turns out to be nothing more than the sniffles it'll be time to let this whole thing rip

We're 2 years down this road with masks and boosters and half-living

It's the greatest over-reaction in the history of science

Rynaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287999#Comment_118287999

18 months to flatten the curve wasn't working so we decided to get ahead of it instead, superb.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288231#Comment_118288231

Simply our health service cant take the gamble

Don't be questing our betters, this is a new Ireland where its lights out midnight

kirk.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10285669/SARAH-VINE-human-cost

Roisin Ingle gearing up to give her « unvaccinated relative » her pearls of wisdom in the IT today :

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/r%C3%B3is%C3%ADn-ingle-my-unvaccinated-relative-arrives-soon-it-s-time-for-ostrich-therapy-1.4747986

Someone definitely has their head buried in the sand Roisin, and it’s not your relative. How about addressing the « elephant in the room » and looking into the category of person most vulnerable to harmful effects Covid. It’s not the unvaccinated....

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288524#Comment_118288524

I find not reading her column is a much better use of my time!

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287755#Comment_118287755

You keep spouting this shite.

If your vaccine passes work then why has indoor hospitality been limited again and night clubs close?

Do you honestly believe banning unvaccinated people from the gym is going to have a positive effect? If anything people not going to the gym and becoming fatter will INCREASE their chances of hospitalisation.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288655#Comment_118288655

Hillarious isn't it. I mean why is everyone shutting nightclubs all at once. Most of Europe do not let the great unwashed to enter so you would think with everyone being fully vaxed they would be one of the most safest enviroments to leave open.

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288655#Comment_118288655

Don't rise to it, people like that will just annoy ye. If people feel safer with the vaccine then so be it, deep down they know they have being sold a dud (Get the vaccine and life returns to normal) but they are to far gone now to admit they have being duped.

Penfailed

The first case(s) of Omicron detected in the north yesterday. The CMO in the north was on the radio earlier and was being pushed to explain why restrictions weren't being increased the same way they were in the south when Omicron was detected. His explanation was that the health service in the south is under much more pressure than that in the north...

FlubberJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288736#Comment_118288736

Duped or not, I can still go to the gym while the unvaccinated will be the ones sitting outside getting fat(ter)

Feel free to continue to sprout your own shite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288788#Comment_118288788

I can see how you would think that the gym being closed makes it impossible to keep in the shape, if the guiding light in your life is to slavishly follow government advice and guidelines.

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288524#Comment_118288524

Think most of this thread could be just moved to a thread about reading, watching and listening to rubbish and complaining about it. And the storm thread yesterday could have been merged with it.

FlubberJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288828#Comment_118288828

Loooool.... nah, just common sense and if getting the vaccine has the bonus of allowing freedom to do things I enjoy, while the dull eyed goombahs think their stance on not getting vaccinated means something... then yeh, I'm good to go with that

kirk.

Looks like this variant doesn't cause serious illness

Time to let this pony run

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288788#Comment_118288788

😂 oh no I will have to eat garbage cause the gym is closed for people who are unvaccinated. enjoy the gym anyway 😘

Quags

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288901#Comment_118288901

have a link for this? still don't think the Gov will drop restrictions over the Christmas period

Sure even Leo said yesterday there's "good evidence" the Covid passes have worked: "At the very least they have encouraged more and more people to get vaccinated. I'm not sure we would have reached so high a level of vaccination of 93 or 94% were it not for the system."

So basically the pass doesn't affect transmission but does exert pressure on individuals to get vaccinated so they have freedom & people still think its all about your health

noraos

Statement like ..''allowing freedom to do things I enjoy,'' how the HELL can people think this is an acceptable sentence.. you should not be ALLOWED to do things you enjoy... you should be just DOING them.. as grown ass adults... and yes, I understand we have laws.. but going to the gym/cinema/restaurant,...should not at all be considered as against any law, based on a VOLUNTARY vaccine.

If this was any type of relationship, what we have between the people and the government.. enforcement of ANYTHING through coercion is toxic and wrong.. and if this was in relationship boards.. ye would all be screaming to get out of this relationship/ get a divorce, etc... people stay in these situations, as they are weakened and conditioned .. and at this stage of the game, it should be clear to all, this is not for our individual benefit anymore..

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289067#Comment_118289067

And now they have all these Moderna boosters that are about to go out of date - expect a big squeeze on the unboostered in the new year.

FlubberJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289073#Comment_118289073

but that's not the way it is working is it... COVID has changed the world... move with the times... or sit alone at home ranting online about the evils of vaccines and the bad people in the government

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289067#Comment_118289067

he isn't wrong, most of my peers took it for access to society not for health or the virus.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289096#Comment_118289096

Same in Germany the are trying to get everyone on the Moderna booster because they have 16 million sat in fridges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Kw6Xbk__8

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289157#Comment_118289157

They are based on science 8% of eligible for vaccine population taking 50% of hospital beds being used for COVID, the data does not lie, that is science and cannot be argued with.

completedit

Do people not understand risk? To live you take the chance of risk and all that it entails; it is embedded in what it is to be a human being, that was true 50,000 years ago and it is true today. People seem to be unable to get their heads around the idea that more normality will equal more case numbers. I thought the point of living with covid was that people would accept the risk of catching the virus but there was a collective understanding that to be alive is not the same as living.

I think more of us need to get covid(knowingly); it still has that connotation of 'Oh, such and such HAS covid', the more people have it and experience it as a benign illness the more it will lose significance in the mind.

I'd love to know what people are waiting for? A generation of old people to die alone and scared and for the other half to die restricted and depressed? I am amazed by the impact that signalling can have on people; 2 weeks ago covid was waning then health professionals and governments around Europe come out and raise the possibility that a new variant may be more virulent(importantly, not more deadly) and people retreat back into their holes acting as if every little behaviour will have an impact. In fairness to NPHET and Govt. they did put forward the idea of reduced interactions to limit the chance of spread but people don't hear this, they either turn it into a meme or take it to mean that the world is going to burn and any social interaction will have disastrous consequences. Another thing I've noticed people seem to think that it is possible to get 'more covid' depending on how many people you're around, as far as I know this is not true, of course you increase the chances of getting the virus but more people doesn't equal a stronger infection. So people will be content to go to moderately large gatherings in 'safe' places but feel unsafe in places such as clubs which seem unsafer but really are they? I've heard of people who will go to Avoca for lunch but not out to a restaurant dinner but anybody that has been to Avoca knows that the place is always extremely busy. Again it's more perception than any real estimation of risk.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289171#Comment_118289171

Out of those 50% of ICU beds unvaccinated, how many have been in for over 3 months?

Several of those in ICU are long-termers, which will look to distort the data. A handful of people staying in ICU "long-haul" will totally distort the risk. Admissions are the only metric of interest as far as risk to the individual goes.

noraos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289131#Comment_118289131

It is true the world is changing, however as adults in a democracy, it is healthy to question health policies that are not for health benefit of the people anymore. It is healthy to look around us and see how are the powers that be, are actually using that power.. and people with power can and have overstepped it.. they have broken our constitutional rights (travel etc) and keep extending that power.. without the vote of the people..

This is what makes society, different people with different view points.. people following illogical restrictions on daily life , in my opinion.. is not a healthy new world to be moving towards..

I dont think vaccines are evil,I think for those that need them, they are very much essential.. I do feel however, it is a personal choice and I respect that. nor do I think the government is full of bad people...never said that...I would hate to have their job.. but I do feel the discussion needs to be opened to ask more questions... and people just going along with everything prevents that from happening.. the media not asking questions etc ..

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289171#Comment_118289171

No they aren't. blanket stats hide the true story.

Plus that 50% figure isn't current. Is there a recent report?

But lets take 50% as FACT.

117 people in icu with covid. so half that is 58 (ish) .

so all this is for 58 (ish) people out of 5million people. That's an over the top - panic stations decision.

now ask yourself - do we know why these people haven't taken the vaccine?

We do know Donnelly said 82% of the ICU are immunocompromised - a decent chance those people may not be able to take the vaccine.

under 18's can't take the vaccine. Also a massive over representation of people born outside ireland - not sure what that means but could indicate newly arrived people.

Also are they in ICU with covid or cos of something else - I read a recent output where 70% came from another ward to ICU ? Were they in for something else and got covid hospital (i.e. not the gym ) .

Who knows? We don't cos our stats aren't great and are used by the politicals for their own end.

IF anybody with a serious condition didn't take the vaccine and could, that's on them

But the regular gym goers (mostly 20-40 cohort) with confident immune systems aren't clogging up the hospital and ICU

if you really think that. you aren't the full shilling.

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289171#Comment_118289171

I feel you keep trotting out these percentages without actually thinking about what you are saying.

You are acting like its a massive number of people.

50% of a small number of people is still a small number of people.

There is absolutely no scientific basis for restricting the majority of unvaccinated healthy people who will NEVER end up in hospital.

If there were 20 people in ICU and all unvaccinated would you be going on about 100%?

Or

If there 500 people in ICU and 10% were unvaccinated would you then consider that the passes aren't needed?

Despite the total numbers being higher?

By your dumbass logic we could also start dividing down how many people in ICU are Obese and then put restrictions on them.

Oh look 50% of people in ICU are Obese. Better ban ALL obese people from the gyms.

Think about your logic.

Gyms = Good for health for everyone and proven effectiveness at keeping weight down. Reducing chances of needing ICU due to being obese

Unvaccinated = More at risk if they are fat and unhealthy

Solution = Don't let those at risk stay in good shape because they might put the vaccinated people at risk from a virus the vaccine is supposed to protect them against...

BECAUSE SAFETY!

Safety for who?

You are vaccinated so are you not safe?

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288850#Comment_118288850

You literally just said "getting the vaccine allows me freedom" while making fun of the poster for thinking getting the vaccine or not means something...

Ironic.

You would probably let the government inject anything into you. If you think thats freedom you deserve to owned.

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288729#Comment_118288729

Vaccines so effective at stopping the spread that only the unvaccinated are allowed indoors with the same restrictions being brought back in as when nobody was vaccinated during 2020.

Oh and don't forget ""HAHA!!! WE CAN TRAVEL NICE AND EASY WITH OUR PASSES!!!"" oh wait...now we ALL have to do covid tests.

So your vaccines gave your freedom back?

Just bend over there again, spread your arse. We have more freedoms to give you.

brickster69

Sounds like UK is to go in plan B shortly going by the press. Things certainly sounding that the early findings of this new variant is not looking too great.

PhoneMain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289248#Comment_118289248

**** me theres so much idle speculation in your posts its astonishing.

1) very few people, including immunocompromised actually have contraindications to getting the vaccine. Fact.

2) 70% came from other wards? Eh, that's how most people get admitted to ICU! You're just speculating that they got covid in hospital with no evidence (tho that doesnt diminish the degree of hospital resources utilised when someone has covid, no matter how mild it is).

3) under 18s can get the vaccine, its licenced from under 12 up.

This **** thread sometimes illustrates all that's wrong with society now. Mere speculation by people who haven't any knowledge or expertise and get to push their own agenda with no knowledge of the underlying issues and too arrogant to admit their own limitations.

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289365#Comment_118289365

You didn't post any percentages/stats and also just said

"very few people blah blah blah FACT!"

You can't state a "fact" by using the term "very few"

Very few is a subjective defining of something that you haven't posted any statement of fact to support.

Just putting fact after something makes your post as shite as the one you are giving out about.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289363#Comment_118289363

Convenient way of deflecting from the party issue in number 10... oh look over there

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289160#Comment_118289160

That is the reason why most people got the vaccine. Lets face it would there have been as big an up take on getting the vaccine if there were no limits put on peoples freedoms?

It is shocking to see people jumping up and down cheering other people being cast a pariahs in the community, you can bet those same people would be up in screaming if people freedoms were curtailed because of other aspects.

Then you have the same people saying not the treat anyone who is unvaxxed, should the same be said for anyone who is obese or maybe someone who broke their leg doing something stupid, or the person who smokes 40 a day and has cancer, should all those people not be treated either because of some decisions they made?

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289365#Comment_118289365

of course its' idle speculation. cos they don't issue solid statistics - that was a large trust of my point.

so thanks for agreeing with me .

dubdaymo

Realistically though, what serious politician anywhere in the world would stand up and tell medical experts that they're wrong and that said politician knows better and he's going with his gut feeling instead

That's all well and good except that the medical "experts" have been proved wrong, completely wrong on so many issues and because they have been wrong THEY are the people responsible for huge numbers of Covid cases and, logically, hospitalisations, ICU's and deaths. Let me list some of them.

They were anti mask wearing.

They were stubbornly against antigen tests for more than a year even labelling them snake oil.

The shameful nursing home scandal.

Abandonment of tracking and tracing

Let me repeat again that these alone caused hundreds, probably thousands of cases and worse.

Politicians have every right and responsibility to tell them they have been wrong on so many serious issues and act accordingly.

As well as that, the "modelling" experts have done nothing only predict outlandish figures time after time with only one objective in mind - force the Govt. to go along with their own mindset by spreading fear in the minds of the public in advance.

As if that wasn't enough it was recently reported in the media that Professor Nolan was also against hepa ventilation when an expert committee set up by the Govt. came to the opposite conclusion.

Every step of the way the "medical experts" have been blaming everyone else especially the younger people who have suffered the most, even the children haven't escaped, whereas it is NPHET themselves who have got it repeatedly wrong on serious issues, have, thus, been continually acting irresponsibly and, to all intents and purposes, have caused the virus to spread unnecessarily and the consequences thereof.

Any politician who calls them out has my vote.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289403#Comment_118289403

It is shocking to see people jumping up and down cheering other people being cast a pariahs in the community, you can bet those same people would be up in screaming if people freedoms were curtailed because of other aspects.

you could bet your life on it !

there is something insidious about the moral high ground many in irish society have adopted - slowly but surely over time demanding compliance under penalty for refusal.

its' not about a virus with a really low death rate (nearly exclusively in elderly people) which they have been vaccinated for.

It's a social/political revenge on people who don't (for whatever reason) follow the accepted trends.

PhoneMain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289390#Comment_118289390

Grand stuff, heres the link, first document. Cant link actual document on phone. Clinical guidance from HSE.

"Contraindications to Covid 19 vaccines are:

Contraindications See Table 12 for more details

• Anaphylaxis (serious systemic allergic reaction requiring medical intervention) following a previous 

dose of the vaccine or any of its constituents (including polyethylene glycol (PEG)). 

• Anaphylaxis following another mRNA vaccine.

• A history of myocarditis after a previous dose of an mRNA vaccine."

As regards immunocompromised:

"7.8 Immunosuppression due to disease or treatment

Individuals with immunosuppression due to disease or treatment should be vaccinated if they have no 

contraindications. Patients with planned immunosuppressing therapy should ideally complete

vaccination two weeks before treatment. The recommended minimum interval may be used. Specialists should 

consider the individual’s risk and likelihood of disease exposure, and provide advice based on knowledge and 

understanding of the patient’s immune status and likely immune response to vaccination."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/hcpinfo/covid19vaccineinfo4hps/clinicalguidance.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjf4Yevi9T0AhW_QUEAHcXsALgQFnoECAkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw32Yt42F4PfN6BlOfQ-ZLlT

So that makes my post not shite anymore. Facts

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289403#Comment_118289403

This is the issue.

If you have socialised health care you can't ban people for ANY reason. Its a social contract that we agree to that says "despite your life choices, you will be helped no matter what, because its the right thing to do"

Ironically those in favour in it want to ban people because of their choice.

Fine. Lets ban any health care for people who make any choice that puts them in a bad position.

Fat and need a new heart? No you shouldn't get one tubby

Had sex willingly and got pregnant? tough ****, pay for your own pregnancy care

Smoked 20 a day for 30 years? No cancer treatment for you, you selfish fool..

This is the road they want to open up?

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289248#Comment_118289248

We do know Donnelly said 82% of the ICU are immunocompromised - a decent chance those people may not be able to take the vaccine.

Just need to correct this as it's been used so many times as an excuse it's annoying. Immunocompromised people are not restricted or unable to take a covid vaccine. They are the one group who a booster/3rd jab is extremely important. Over 90k of them have received their extra dose.

under 18's can't take the vaccine. Also a massive over representation of people born outside ireland - not sure what that means but could indicate newly arrived people.

Vaccines are approved for all over 12. So under 18's can and have taken a vaccine.

watchingfromafar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289437#Comment_118289437

Now who in ICU currently fits into each of the above categories.

Think you will find as the OP posted, that information isn't available

We don't have a clear break down of why some people are vaccinated for each of their own reasons. Whether stupidity (in your opinion) or otherwise.

Posting the definitions of what makes someone vaccinatable or not doesn't tell us anything.

They are just guidelines.

There are no facts beyond the facts that there are guidelines.

Post numbers in ICU who fall into each of the above