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Smart Tariff Unit Rates

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭ niallers1


    Where are they taking registrations? Do you have a link?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭ irishchris


    It's tucked away nicely where it is hard to be found on their website, funny that, it's like they don't want people to see it 😃

    I will attach link below




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    So why are all the suppliers so cagey about announcing a price for generation?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    Because currently they get the electricity produced by people with solar installations -for free- and then get to sell that electricity for ~€0.25 to your next-door neighbor. If they announce a price, then you may have a shed load of people moving to/from them, depending on the price. So we have a Mexican standoff where each of them is waiting to see what numbers the others post and then will (most likely) all post the same.

    Effectively it's a cartel. I'm ok with that, but it's the timeline I have issue with. EU directives seem to be guidance's really. Postponed time and time again by "Ohh we're looking, it's a complex problem" (it's not), or my favorite......"We'll be having an announcement about when the announcement will happen!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭ irishchris


    From talking to bord gais and electric Ireland for my contract and my parents, it seems both are similar in the sense they are both receiving export data from esb networks at start of July with payment to be made in July backdated to 15th feb



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    I was going to increase my own solar, or get a battery system. But I think I'll just get a system installed on my dads house instead, as he's got a meter that'll go in reverse. Can't really get a better deal than that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭ irishchris


    For anyone that has one otherwise esb will send them the projected export data if they don't have a smart meter



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    So they pay based on what they think you have generated? Doesn't sound great.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭ irishchris


    It's actually better than you think. You can use all of the power yourself without exporting any and get paid for a decent chunk that they assume you are exporting. Your other option if you weren't happy with that is install a smart meter but my advice would be don't.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    I'm on the list for a smart meter in the next few weeks. Doubt I can refuse it now, and still ask to be paid to feed in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,876 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Probably not if you refuse it, but look at the bigger picture... the FiT is going to be worth <€100 to you (unless you have a massive array).... you will be paying a premium on the smart tariffs so you are probably better off refusing the smart meter and staying on a day/night rate and just forget about FiT.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    I don't think I have to switch to a smart tariff though. As it it, my current meter is only a few years old, and already registers day/night. But I'm just on standard tariff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Smart meter binned and D/N meter installed today by ESBN, happy days.

    The ESB guy did say everyone will be forced onto Smart eventually anyway so it might only be a short term happiness but I'll take it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭ MAULBROOK




  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭ carrickbawn


    Thank you for your link. I had not seen it on their site though I am a Bord Gais customer. I submitted the information but they asked if i had submitted a

    NC6, something I had never heard of. Is it possible that my installation company would have submitted it as part of the paperwork for the grant?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭ con747


    Yes, your installer would have sent it to ESBN so they know you have solar installed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭ carrickbawn


    Thank you for that info. I just read on another forum that you will pay income tax on anything more than €200 you get back.

    Is that for real?Why would you be penalized for giving energy back to the grid?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭ yankinlk


    dont worry. the chance of getting more than 200 euro back for most people is almost impossible. Seems a bit silly to come up with a TAX for something that doesnt exist yet. I guess the gov has their priorities tho.



  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭ carrickbawn


    I appreciate that there isnt many people going to be exporting enough to get more than that. Im just surprised that it would be even considered.

    I thought the government was trying to give people an incentive to invest their money in going green.....Maybe im deluded.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭ Effects


    My night time usage is about 2 kwh, so not sure that a day/night meter would make sense for me.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,355 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Irish Steve


    Don't make me laugh!! The only thing Ryan and his cronies are interested in is keeping Government tax take as high as possible in order to fund even more of their supposedly green fantasies.

    If they really wanted to get CO2 emissions down, they'd have already put an approved EU plan into place to zero rate solar panels, but that would be too easy, a massive discount on Solar to help people deal with the huge problems that are very evident right now, and they're more worried about the ownership of the land for the NMH. Talk about misguided priorities!

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    Maybe you can charge them carbon tax on it too :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭ BoxerX


    Anyone with Bord Gais Energy can now 'register their interest":https://www.bordgaisenergy.ie/home/help/microgen



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭ irishchris


    Yep thankfully they have been doing that for last couple weeks but no sign yet of payment amount per kWh exported.


    PS second post at top of this page 😃



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭ OO7FITZY


    is it mandatory for each utility provider to pay a feed-in tariff once you start exporting to any excess to the grid?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,876 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Technically yes, they have to provide a tariff that includes a FiT element, but they can give you 0c/kWh so thats the same as not providing a FiT! You can thank our regulator for that gem!



  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭ BoxerX


    The reality is that even if the electricity provider is good enough to pay a realistic amount for what we supply, it's absolutely necessary to compare the overall tariff with other providers. There is no point in signing up for a tariff with a high FIT if the rate per unit is higher.

    Pinergy have offered 13.5c FIT, but their Standard unit rate is €0.3673 inc VAT (rural)

    Electric Ireland (for example) have not announced a FIT rate, but their standard unit price is 28.12c inc VAT. So you wouldn't choose Pinergy now unless you actually have SolarPV. Will Electric Ireland's Standard rate stay at 28.12 when their FIT rate is announced? I for one am expecting an email stating they are changing my Tariff to a 'new Solar CEG' tariff, and here are the details (with increased unit cost to compensate).

    KCross is right; the regulators just haven't thought this through when they regulated. The idea of a zero minimum tariff opening up good competition only works if the providers play the game, which they won't. All this is likely to be is more profit for them. They will find a way around paying us for our excess if they can, after all, they've had our excess for nothing up to now. I bet they've got their accounts teams working flat out to find ways around paying for our excess!

    A better idea would have been a rate set at (for example) 5% below the normal standard unit rate. After all, it will not cost ESB a penny to distribute what we are providing. But why would we expect fairness?

    Moral; I suggest you compare your standard rate now with your standard rate when you get your CEG rate!

    I hope I am wrong in my pessimism.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,355 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Irish Steve


    Had a thought provoking hour yesterday, for interest, I let one of the major players in the one stop shop retrofit game come and give us a "free consultation", which was a fairly thinly disguised sales spiel, and if we want to to anything significant, there's a €750 "deposit", that gets us a full home energy audit, which includes things like an air tightness test, and solar survey, and then a full report on the options.

    IF (very big IF) we go ahead, the cost of that is taken off the overall cost, but knowing the names of some of their "preferred" suppliers, I'm not about to hold my breath on the total cost of the possible upgrades, and the more I look at this SEAI inspired fudge, the clearer it becomes that the only people to really gain from this at the moment are the installers, with the sorts of prices that are being quoted, it's very hard to see how a lot of these supposed "green upgrades" can be cost justified, and the more I despise people like Eamon Ryan and his hangers on, who could at a stroke reduce the costs of things like Solar by a massive amount, but he's more worried about the ownership of the NMH site than he is about providing real and viable options for the vast majority who are under massive pressure from energy prices.

    One interesting snippet (and the reason for this post in this topic) that I didn't slap down, supposedly, all the suppliers are going to be offering a feed in tariff that will be somewhere in the region of 11c per KwH. If that were to actually be the case, if nothing else, it would mean taking a very careful look at battery costings for Solar systems.

    I'm also less than impressed with the stability of some of the hardware that's being put into place, it seems that there is a great deal of instability and immaturity in the hardware and related software that's being used to drive these devices, I'm having huge hassles with Shelly at the moment, due to fundamental (show stopper) hassles with their software for the 3EM device, and reading between the lines in the posts here, there's a worrying level of issues with the integration of the hardware that's being used on Solar systems and the integration of those devices into things like Home Assistant, and much of it is unfortunately looking incredibly flakey when I look at what should in theory be a much more mature system.

    As I've said before, the only difference between the cutting edge and the bleeding edge of technology is the pressure you're under, and I get that some of the key players here are very much at the sharp end of what may be possible with the hardware, but it's looking a lot more like the Wild West than I was expecting it to be, and that's worrying given how utterly dependent we're all going to be on some of this technology in the very near future.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭ BoxerX


    Interesting.

    So I would be right in saying if after they did this testing for €750 and found your house was all lovely, nothing needed doing etc. you wouldn't get the €750 back?

    I must admit that compared to the price of a 12 panel solar PV system 'trade', the final fitted price does appear to be quite steep. Okay, I realise there's scaffolding, 3/4 people to pay and a fair amount of 'office time' in admin work to get the paperwork in a fit state to push over to SEAI to pay out, but it still seems expensive. But then the grant of €2400 seems rather minimal too, considering we are helping our government to meet its EU emissions, I do think they should be digging deeper.

    I was thinking of installing air to air heat pumps in to the house once the solar PV has gone in. Not to replace the oil boiler, but rather to supplement it. However, I cannot find out from anywhere if this is allowed. It will cost me €200 to find out, the cost refunded if we go ahead (using one of their approved installers), but I will lose €200 if I get told I have to have the oil boiler decommissioned and removed (its only 3 years old so that's not happening). Again, all these €200s and €750s will all add up, taking a long time to recoup (if ever) if we decide not to, or cannot, have the works done.

    All this makes me relate to your hour's thought provocations. Like the CEG tariff part (minimum of zero cents per unit), it seems these 'experts' really can't come up with a good idea if their lives depended on it.

    I've taken the full €2400 grant for solar PV (booked to be fitted in 2 weeks time) as that's the only grant I have been able to get from anywhere for this house which was built to first fix in 2008 and that I bought and finished in 2017. You'd think the government would bend over backwards to give people like me grants to help finish all the half-built houses that litter Ireland, or is it just me that thinks this?

    Anyway, yes Irish Steve, I totally get what you re saying. And whereas I do get why the SEAI have a list of approved installers, it really is just a licence to print money.



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