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Smart Tariff Unit Rates



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK

    Oh they will be around for while. Keep us up to date. Fair play on having the balls to jump

  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭DubLad69

    I want to sign up to the Bord Gais Green Smart electriciry plan. But they are only offering me a 20% discount as I am already a customer, instead of the 36% for new customers.

    Is there any way around this?

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA

    Have you tried signing up with someone else's name in your household? The stupidest thing I have ever heard if you ask me but it should work as they are a "new customer"

    Tough luck if you live alone 😁

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,222 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu

    I'm with Energia and have had a smart meter for about 18 months, but I can't see any way of getting more detailed usage data (which presumably they have). I'm still on a standard 24H tariff, but how am I to know if a smart tariff would be better if I can't see my usage patterns? (I'm 99% sure a smart plan would not be cheaper either way but I'd still like to see the usage)

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭irishchris

    They won't let you see usage until you go on a smart plan as you have to agree to them taking 30 minute interval readings from the meter which they only allow if you go on smart plan.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects

    You should get your own electricity monitor to see what your usage is.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭eeepaulo

    On the smart meter if you press the button it scrolls through time / total / day / night / peak (not sure of the order) work out your annual usage from that

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭KildareP

    I'm sorry if this has been answered before - the search feature is useless - but can you go on a standard day/night tariff with a smart meter?

    We'll be getting a plug-in hybrid shortly so figuring out how best to charge that.

    We're on a 21c/kWh (currently) 24-hour plan with Bord Gais.

    Electric Ireland are 19.6c on a 24-hour "Smart" plan, or 21c day and 10.3c night on standard day/night tariffs to new customers.

    The Smart or EV nightboost plans seem across the board to be incredibly poor in comparison, particularly the EV plans where, granted you can charge for as low as 5c between 0200 and 0500 but the standing charge is nearly doubled!

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,894 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA

    No you cannot not because it is not possible technically but because ESBN want to make a nice profit - appalling really.

    Just do what I did, ask BG to replace the "smart" meter with a d/n one and then you can get on the d/n tariffs, just don't take no for an answer when they will inevitably tell you it's not possible, loads of us did it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭irishchris

    Was undecided on going this route myself with changing my smart to day night meter but I struggled to find a day/night with cheap standing charge. They all seem inflated and night charges are more than the ev rate albeit the ev rate is only for 3 hours. I have took a chance on switching to ev with pinergy as they have a 5c ev rate from 3-5 to cover winter charging whilst should be self sufficient the other months with solar/battery combo. They have an extortianate day rate though so wouldn't suggest this plan unless you have decent size battery and decent solar installed. Also they pay 13.5c for every kw on this plan that is exported. I'm currently on 1400 KW exported since Feb so would equate to 185 euro owed back already this year. Their standing charge is also 300 euro less than bord gais that I was with at 220 for the year.

    Now as I said this obviously won't suit a lot of people but hopefully may suit some.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK

    With that much payback will revenue want a cut of it if it goes over the €200 threshold.

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve

    IF they run the FIT as a separate account, then it might be an issue, but I suspect that the vast majority of us are going to end up with some sort of heat pump, and if that's the case, hopefully, the FIT units will be offset against the usage during the winter months, when most solar systems will struggle to provide the power to cover the usage.

    There may well be a case to be made for having batteries that can be used to reduce the usage of day units, but that's a far more complex issue that will need software to work out if the batteries need to be topped up using night rate power off the grid, so that the day rate usage can be lower, and depending on the size of the heat pump, there may also be issues about the capacity of the inverter, the compressor of the heat pump can be a significant load, and if the rest of the domestic usage is then on top of that, the load will be significant.

    There's too many snake oil salesmen out there at the moment that are not even in the same ball park when it comes to understanding the complexities of where we are going to have to go over the next 10 years, and the total absence of clear strategy from people like Eamon Ryan is only serving to make muddy waters even more difficult to navigate, where consumer interest is concerned, Ryan is worse than clueless.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,856 ✭✭✭garo

    It's not that complicated. Quite a few people here have done the calculations and figured out that night charging of batteries saves a substantial amount of money. I did it myself over the winter and no software or complicted algorithms involved. Don't overthink this.

    There's a 20% loss when charging a battery from the grid then outputting it back in AC. Anyy difference in day night rates over that 20% is a saving. Yes you wear out your battery a bit more but if you don't discharge the battery to zero and charge to a full 100% and use at the typically low charge/discharge rates your batteries should essentially last forever.

    Also the preseence of a heatpump makes no odds because the inverter will just output at its max rate and the heat pump will draw the rest from the grid.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,926 ✭✭✭jkforde

    after getting in the D\N meter back in October, am now once again on the hunt for a fair Smart tariff for primarily night EV and 4.8kwh battery charging and surplus PV feed-in payment

    how are Pinenergy to deal with ? I had to good look around on their website and am not impressed, pure marketing bling and the questions on the switch wizard are pure data trawling. so even though the 5c rate from 2-5am and 218 SC is attractive, I just wouldn't feel comfortable giving them my business.

    🌦️ 6.7kwp, 45°, SSW, mid-Galway 🌦️

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭irishchris

    In what sense are you insecure with dealing with them? Have you spoken to them or emailed them?

    Found them pretty good to deal with. Had small issue with regards the smart usage in app but was resolved quickly with it being nice for a change for them to contact me directly by phone twice and email to confirm. Normally it is me chasing companies by phone and not the other way around.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,926 ✭✭✭jkforde

    my first impression was purely on the website which is why I wanted to know how they and their services are like to deal with day to day, so based on your good experience going to give them a call and see! cheers

    🌦️ 6.7kwp, 45°, SSW, mid-Galway 🌦️

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,262 ✭✭✭kirk.

    Are u saying there not to charge to 100% ?

    That was my understanding, not to fully charge/discharge

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Nelbert

    Contract is just up and I'm guided towards Bord Gais for best day night rate currently.

    But there is no option on the sign up to choose a day / night rate outside of the smart meters there's just standard day rate listed.

    I've a d/n meter but have been on a standard tariff until now and planned to switch based on what I've learned here (and when heating and water kicks in with the heat pump being night rate times).

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk

    Even though you have a meter that supports day night, your technically on a 24 hr meter that's why only 24 hr tariffs are available (unless you have a smart meter?)

    The process of switching is ring your supplier and they will organize the "change of meter" but if you have a meter that supports d/n someone comes out to read the day/night setting. Instead of the 24hr one

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Nelbert

    BG don't display any d/n rates at the moment was my point. I.e. before I tell them anything about my current tariff or MPRN.... their site doesn't show anything but 24hr or smart meter.....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,926 ✭✭✭jkforde

    just filter by meter type, the standard rate is stated

    Day Rate

    36.25 Inc VAT

    33.26 Ex VAT

    Night Rate

    17.92 Inc VAT

    16.44 Ex VAT

    🌦️ 6.7kwp, 45°, SSW, mid-Galway 🌦️

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Nelbert

    Sorry to be clear. It's the signign up to the tariff is the issue.

    No option to select d/n anywhere during plan selection or sign up when going through

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk

    Yep I agree, something funky is going on, its as if the D/N meter doesnt exist...

    And if you go to the our tariffs page, and for electricity, go to the EV Urban (or rural) night saver (as thats one of the "new plans" it doesn't list any unit rates. Only the standard night saver.

  • Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭Gorteen

    I've just had a solar PV system installed. My meter is the line that was installed when my house was built in 2000, so I'm guessing it's not a smart meter. My system send unused electricity which is generated by the PV solar panels to the grid. Do I need a smart meter to be paid for this electricity? If so, which company is the best to go with?

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,926 ✭✭✭jkforde

  • Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭Gorteen

  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭simpsimp

    I'm in the process of a PV install at the moment - electrics being commissioned next week, I think.

    I've been looking at this thread and the FIT one, with interest.

    We will have a 5.85kw array, 5kw inverter, 5kw battery.

    We currently have a 24 hour meter.

    We don't have an EV at the moment, but we do have a heat pump, which is our biggest electricity usage, and is, inconveniently, exactly out of kilter with peak energy generation.

    Two questions, and a bonus.

    1. Is there any way to avoid a smart meter in our situation, if we want FIT?
    2. If we don't have an EV, or a larger batter, is there any logic in a D/N meter? (With a heat pump, I can see a D/N meter being potentially expensive in winter (e.g. 16 units a day), where we don't have much solar production, and any FIT credit is far smaller than the day rate...)
    3. Bonus question: what is the core evil of the smart meter; I can see lots of criticism from various angles, but if someone could boil it down that would be useful!

    Thanks as ever for the collective knowledge on the forum - invaluable!

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭KCross

    but we do have a heat pump, which is our biggest electricity usage, and is, inconveniently, exactly out of kilter with peak energy generation.

    Forgetting Solar PV and EV's for a second, why are you not using a d/n tariff as is? Having a heat pump usually means you should be on a d/n tariff.

    Ultimately the answer to your questions are very specific to you and your house. Lots of variables are at play that are unique to you so no one can give you a definitive answer except yourself, so you have to measure your usage and then make a call on it.

    You should have the heat pump doing the bulk of its water heating at night and shift a bit of the space heating to early morning (before night rate ends). Then adding SolarPV (reducing your day usage) and adding an EV (increasing night usage) should massively swing your overall usage to night rather than day (e.g. 60:40 for night:day). You would then be massively better off on a d/n tariff rather than a 24hr tariff.

    Your specific questions..

    1. To avoid the smart meter in the medium term you simply ask for a d/n tariff now, before you get offered a smart meter. That will still keep you eligible for FiT and it will cost you nothing to get that done.... just ask your provider and they organise it with ESB Networks.
    2. I don't understand your logic. A heat pump usually means a d/n tariff is the right choice, not the wrong choice. You will have slightly more expensive day rate electricity but half price night electricity and an extra €70 or so standing charge.... overall it should be cheaper to be on d/n tariff with a heat pump... but maybe you have really low usage due to an A-rated house... again, you need the stats from your house to know for sure.
    3. In theory the smart meters are a great idea. However, the evil is that the providers are not offering competitive rates on smart tariffs relative to the d/n tariffs. Its unclear why they are doing that, but that is the current situation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭simpsimp

    Thanks @KCross. Our house is A3 rated at present, without PV. So we have low usage in general.

    When we commissioned the heat pump, I asked both the installer and the technical advisor about whether a D/N rate would be more cost effective and they both said that it was "complicated" and couldn't say for sure, so we remained on 24hr.

    In winter, the HP tends to operate during day rather than at night - I need to ask the installer, on their next maintenance - whether this is more configurable - i.e. to privilege night time running over day time.

    It's a good unit, the Daikin Altherma 3 - but I've always suspected that the installer wasn't so familiar with the more granular settings in order to achieve the sort of efficiencies you're describing!

    Will look into it - thanks!

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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk

    You likely have a meter that supports day/night, if you go out to it and see where you stand currently in regards to day/night vs 24 hr useage