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Smart Tariff Unit Rates

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Comments

  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jonathan


    Rest of their tariffs are fixed discount rather than fixed unit price afaik. Not aware of any other fixed unit price tariffs on the market at the moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43,628 ✭✭✭✭ 6


    It's the only fixed unit rate plan on the market AFAIK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Is it? I just got off the phone with energia and they said only the % are locked in not the kwh values.

    Also that best Energia EV night rate is going to 28.57/13.7c from next week so no longer any use as there are cheaper alternatives like their standard D/N which will be 24.84/11.93



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭ mrm


    Hi SD_DRACULA,

    Energia told me on a call today that the rates were increasing by 15%, as shown on their Current/ New rates on their site info.

    The new night unit rate (11.92c) with the 31% discount should work out at 8.22c, as shown on their EV plan rates.

    They appear to have told you that the 11.92c N/R is increasing another 15%? Doesn't appear to be correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Yes I thought something was off like why would the day stay at 28.57 and only the night increase and not both?

    But those rates above are 28.57/8.22 are current rates, without the hikes from the 25th?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭ mrm


    The 28.57/ 8.22 unit rates are the EV tarriff new rates (41.4/ 11.92) with the 31% discount and so suggest that they are the correct rates post 25th April. They were very unhelpful on the phone clarifying any of this! If you can fully loadshift day to night rate this does appear to be a decent tarriff (standard charge is lower then Electric Ireland).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Yes I agree at those prices it is still one of the best d/n tariff



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    I spoke to Energia again today, to two different customer services folk, and they have confirmed that from the 25th onward the EV one is going to 28.57/13.7 and they also removed the 40%/39% tariff for d/n & gas leaving the 39%/38% as their best dual fuel with d/n.

    Rates for that will be day 25.25c, night, 12.13c and gas 6.5c

    Will wait and see what happens after the 25th but the EV one is dead if that's the case since 39%/38% makes more sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭ mrm


    They are all over the shop on this! Phone call with me included confirmation that the EV rate is jumping up by the 15% they have stated on their site. This would indeed increase the 11.92c rate to the 13.7c unit night rate (strange the day rate remains unchanged) but their site states that the 11.92c is the increased rate for post 25th April. Probably suits them to be confusing consumers on this, but.....it is in direct conflict with what they are advertising on their website. Would need the skills of Neo to be able to navigate the different rates and increases.



  • Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭ askU


    Is the price per unit quoted here

    inc VAT or ex VAT?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    They are replacing our smart meter with a day night. You just ring them and ask to change back. Then laugh at them when they ask if you have considered a smart meter rate.

    They will then agree with you and arrange to have someone out to change the meter. A few days later ESB ring you to arrange the date to change. Then you call your provider back and get back on the day/night rate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 carbuncle


    I just renewed with energia and not sure about smart rates as they were too high to consider. For the rest the 15% rise was clarified to me by a manager as a rise in the average bill (which you can see on their website) - the standing charge and pso remain the same but the unit rates are going up by 18.2%.

    No bill can go up by only 15% unless you use so few units that they can round down to 15% on the total bill - all bills will rise by at least 15% and will top out at nearly 18.2% if you are a high user. So misleading to say average when all will rise more than 15% and none can rise less than 15%

    if you are a current energia d/n user then you can use bonkers to renew and will then retain your 41% discount and get €135 cash back.

    when I called energia the rep hinted at me to check bonkers as he was stuck at 33% with no cash back - I refused and he eventually said since you told me about the bonkers renewal deal I can give it to you!

    then we got bogged down on the % rise being 18.2% and not the 15% he had told me, I asked for it to be checked, got a call back and it was clarified (and I said it’s very poor to mention 15% when it’s up to 18.2%) and I renewed directly at the bonkers deal.

    really not sure why energia have chosen to give renewal customers a better deal via bonkers that by directly calling them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭ hold my beer


    Who is? First time I've heard of anyone getting rid of a smart meter



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Yup I eventually got BG to put in the order to remove the junk/smart meter with d/n next week.

    I suggest everyone do it while the ESB still allows it, I suspect they will plug this loop hole shortly if they have any brains whatsoever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    Yes I know more and more people doing it now as they realize the ripoff plans on the smart meter. I think they will soon start charging for it and then probably stop doing it as the numbers increase.

    I still dont know why - if the meter is so smart - that it cant tell the usage between midnight and 9am and the rest of the time already. Seems totally stupid if you ask me. Either its smart or its not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    I thought you couldnt do it too. But then a friend got it done and told me how to do it. At this point all of my friends are going back to day/night meters. So demand is going to increase. Get your order in now if you want the smart meter gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    Was thinking about that. There's definitely no technical reason for it. So logically it makes sense they (the suppliers) must have "some" reason for it. Only thing I could think of was that they don't want people getting the smart meter in and then remaining on the day/night tariff "indefinitively". They want everyone at some stage on the smart tariffs. Everyone. This forces people (that loophole notwithstanding)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    The big thing about the smart tariffs to them is to make it difficult for people to compare which is best for them.

    They are being used to gouge and confuse customers in Ireland, and not to save them money. Should we have expected anything else though.

    What we need ios to split the day up into periods and then you can buy your power during each period from whatever supplier you want. Absolutely no reason that would not be easy with smart meters. That would make suppliers compete across all time periods and not allow them to move the price from one period to the next, but still keep pulling the same money from you. It would also incentivise users to move their usage to the period that is cheapest too, but you would have companies competing for your custom in that period as well as the other ones.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,749 ✭✭✭✭ emmet02


    All they need to do to incentivise people is provide a pricing/cost similar to a D/N Tarriff, but require a Smart Meter to operate it.

    i.e have more than 2 price/times. Something like the below would move people off Day/Night meters and onto Smarts and could quite plausibly capture a better (fairer) cost for the companies.

    At present, I feel like a well argued message to the energy regulator could and should force companies to extend the D/N pricing structure to customers with Smart Meters - however this could backfire as may cause companies to remove/reduce the value on their D/N structure to match.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    The energy regulator doesnt care.

    That has to be assumed because they were clearly informed of the smart tariffs and didnt do anything about it.

    Also they are allowing the energy companies to abuse the standing charges too. not a fcuking peep out of them.

    As useless as COMREG.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,994 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    I still dont know why - if the meter is so smart - that it cant tell the usage between midnight and 9am and the rest of the time already.

    It can. The meter just reports the 30min interval data back to the back office servers. The actual parsing of that data is then up to the providers. The meter itself isnt formulating your bill. Its just a measuring and reporting device, nothing else.

    The providers have to develop billing systems that can read the data and spit out invoices based on the tariffs they setup. Its not rocket science but they have dragged their heels.

    I believe the main reason that smart tariffs are so bad is because the rate that the providers get charged (by the grid) for night usage on smart meters is something like 5c/kWh more than if it was a d/n meter.... its the same customer, same electricity so I dont know why that is, but obviously they have to pass that onto the customers and hence the smart tariff night rates are terrible value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    Time for the regulator to wake up and do their job I think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Of course when it comes to $hit and moronic charges Ireland is very quick to adopt the UK's ideas (the idiotic alcohol pricing, average speed cameras, etc) but never something useful like the variable unit prices like the UK have with the Octopus agile tariffs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    I've no data to back this up, but I've said it before and I'd be reasonably confident that the piss poor tariffs on smart meters is deliberate as they won't want the country clamoring to get one. ESB networks have some 2.4million meters to replace by 2024. Think about that for a sec. If you replace 2000 meters a day (which sounds a lot right) every day for 200 working days a year..... that's still a 6 year project!

    Now factor in a tariff on smart meters which was say 10% cheaper than normal meter. You'd have the world an it's mother ringing up to get one of these "new fangled" meters as there's an incentive to move. You can imagine the carnage/headache for ESB networks. Course I can't see why they don't offer the same tariff.

    The level of obfuscation on the rates from the different suppliers though is simply shocking. Some offer 2% for email billing, some don't. Others offer discount for direct debits explicitly, others include it in the price. The only way I can have visualize it actually that regulartory thing that they have to state what the annual charge is with the average household usage. The specifics are pure bonkers (excuse the pun)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    The amount of clicks you have to do even on one smart tariff to even find all of the charges and rates is disgusting.

    Ive said it before. But I think you should be able to select different suppliers for all of the time periods to make the best use of smart metering.

    Then you just pick the cheapest unit rate on offer for each period. Thats the only way to have proper transparent competition with smart metering.

    eg,

    00:00 - 8:00 Energia

    8:00 - 16:00 Airtricity

    16:00 - 00:00 Electric Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    Damm right Jimmy.

    In some respects that's what the Octopus tariff does "behind the scenes" in the UK. They vary the tariffs (fairly regularly) to the end users. I guess on the back end, they are going to the various generators and going "what's your rate for 3am?" etc and then picking the rate that is cheapest and then forwarding out to the customers. There has been (rarely) even negative prices. That's right, they actually pay you to use electricity.

    For reals!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    When the regulator gets back from their holidays they might look at that, after they stamp down on the abuse of the standing charge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    When was it that they went on holliers. 2017 or something, yeah? :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭ MAULBROOK




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik




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