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Smart Tariff Unit Rates

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger



    Yup. I've been saying the exact same thing regarding the excessive quotes that come in from some companies and people are saying we should email Eamonn Ryan, talk to Joe Duffy etc. It's a bit of gouging going in, but the companies are perfectly entitled to quote what they see fit. If they get buyers for it, more power to them.

    Same here with the increase in standing charges - although philosophical questions aside about communism/capitalism, while they might be entiteld to do so, it's a bit underhand to increase 20+% on the standing charge I think. Are prices increasing across the board? Yes. But have they increased 20% recently? Dunno....I'd doubt it.

    It is what it is though. BorgGais have obviously "run the numbers" and they feel that whatever customers they lose due to the increase in Standing charge will be offset by the gains that they get from increased standing charge revenue. Believe me, they've run the numbers. They know the expected percentages.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭ garo


    What is underhand about trying to maximise profit for your shareholders? That's the defining feature of 21st century capitalism. If the market can bear it you increase prices. Now one can argue that electricity is a regulated market and a human necessity but nowhere does capitalism make allowances for human need. You set up a private business. You try to maximize profit. End of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    You sound like Gordon Geko. "Greed is good" LOL!

    Jokes aside, it's a fair point you make garo, and different people will have different thoughts I guess. I'm certainly not a "people-before-profit" person (I don't have issue with that thinking, just not my bag) and indeed if anything like the solar panel installers, I think they are perfectly allowed to charge as they see fit. If people move elsewhere to another provider the market will force them to lower.

    Where I see it as a bit underhand is that, due to the Ukrainian crisis gas prices, and by extension leccie prices are going through the roof. People are already suffering a bit to manage the increased leccie prices, petrol prices. To then have a company "pile on", while they might be "entitled" to do it.....dunno, it just seems wrong. Unit rates i get as they don't control them, but standing charges?

    Disclaimer: I'm not with BordGas. Don't want to move to BordGas, so their standing charges doesn't effect me in the slightest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭ garo


    I am absolutely NOT making a moral value judgement here. I am just stating plain facts. I have seen a number of posters on boards complain about communism or socialism whenever the government intervenes in something they don't have a personal interest in. But now they are asking for the government to intervene which seems a bit hypocritical to me?

    Why does it seem wrong to you that a company is entitled to charge what it wants? The company's job is to maximize profits for its shareholders. Capitalism does not do value judgements or care about "people suffering" or what you think about "pile ons" or what is "wrong or right". Are you saying Bord Gais should care about people before its own profit? If you care about those things maybe you are actually a people-before-profit type of person and you just don't know it. 😉

    The neo-liberal capitalist consensus has just been drummed into people as the best thing since sliced bread. People are just automatically opposed to socialism or communism and in favour of market capitalism without realising the consequences of their choices. "I never thought the leopard would eat my face" says the man who voted for the "leopard face-eating party" etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    Last thing we want is the government involved garo. If you think that's what I'm proposing, you've picked me up wrong there. They've done such an excellent job on the FIT haven't they?

    No, my gripe is more around the timing. If it's simply a question of maximizing profit, why not increase standing charges 20% last summer? It seems like it's "opportunistic" using the current climate. That's all. I actually 100% agree with you and I've said a few times that they are perfectly entitled, like the solar installers, to charge as they see fit.... even if the timing is terrible. I absolutely don't see it "wrong" in any way.

    If people pay outrageous sums to them..... more power to them. They've got a product/service, they advertise how much they want to charge for it. If people take them up on that offer, kudos to them. If people realize that there are alternatives, then they will migrate en masse <elsewhere> and that will in effect hopefully force them to change their pricing .... or have no customers. That's the market forces at work.

    The problem I fear though is that energy like petrol is somewhat "inelastic". Sure we can turn down the thermostats, and not drive to the shop for a pint of milk, but people need some amount of energy to live. So while you and I agree on the functional side of the market, there is an ethical aspect there that I think companies should acknowledge. Someone selling respirators at 10x the normal price start of the pandemic, same story. Entitled to do it, but ethically? Least that would be my take.....

    Yeah, it's two separate arguments.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭ garo


    Capitalism doesn't care about ethics. Private limited companies don't do morals or ethics. If you want companies to change their behaviour to not maximize profit, you are on the road to socialism. What are the ethics of the Irish government allowing super rich people to dodge taxes through residency arrangements. Or to fight against the EU decision to have Apple pay 13billion tax to the Irish government? Or even let American companies use the Double Irish, Dutch sandwich to cheat both the American and European public of billions in tax. There are ethical questions at play every day. But people usually only see ethics when it affects them personally.

    Anyway too far off topic so I will stop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭ Ger Roe


    The competitive energy market, operating in a time where we are apparently being encouraged/carbon taxed to use less, will only survive if the consumer is forced to pay more for the less energy they use.

    There is no upside potential for the energy consumer since the market was privatised. We will only be offered token choices to mitigate against price rises, not to achieve lower costs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Too bad the companies have us by the throats due to the poor weather in Ireland and grid reliance.

    I'd be happy to pay 20k or whatever just to be able to go off-grid and give the 🖕 to these capitalist energy companies. Well that and to do good by the planet.

    Hell maybe we can throw in green hydrogen production at home from PV since we're talking fairytales 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭ bullit_dodger


    All good points Garo. All of them and I can't counter any of them other than to say that I believe it's possible to be capitalistic, try to maximize profits and still have some nod towards being ethical. I don't see capitalism being an exclusion to ethics and hope that companies would try (somewhat) to not screw people over. You can still make a tidy profit being ethical.

    History is littered with examples as you've shown over many years, but things are improving. Such as not buying cobalt from the congo, or runners made from 12 year old Vietnamese children. Coffee beans from disadvantaged workers. etc There is hope for us yet :-)

    Dracula - have you seen this?

    Energy Observer Solutions (energy-observer.media)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    If I had a house outside of Dublin I would totally go for that or even a greenhouse over my house with PV on top, like these guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30ghnDOFbNQ



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5 felizdia


    Hi,

    I was wondering if anyone can advise.

    I know I’m slightly off topic but i googled smart meter & this thread came up.

    Last year (not sure what month) I had a smart meter installed. I looked at smart tariffs but my 24 variable rate was better value (for us) than any smart tariffs.

    I phoned bord gais & I got a 25% discount on my variable rate - or at least that’s what was agreed on the phone.

    When my bill came in they had moved me on to a smart tariff without me asking/without my permission. I feel I’ve been wrongly forced on to a tariff I never asked to go on. I’ve asked to go back on a to variable rate but I’m told there’s no going backwards.

    Does anyone have any guidance on what I can do? I have been on to bord gais & they are investigating

    Has anyone had a similar experience?

    thank you



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,999 ✭✭✭ con747


    AFAIK those calls are recorded so if so ask for a copy of the recording to clarify the agreed contract.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    I am curious if anyone here is using any of those one weekend day free type of smart tariffs, like this one

    That price will go to almost 30c after 1st May though and will it still be worth it with the garbage days in winter (i.e. all of them)

    I wonder if the higher unit price can be offset the fact you can do all washing/charge car/put 20 kwh in the battery on Sunday and then probably get Monday for free as well and get paid a few peanuts if FIT is ever a thing in case battery is full and sun is blasting that day.

    That's about 100 days "free" in one year (in theory) but will they start bitching about using 40kwh every Sunday and do this?

    Hmm 🤔



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,356 ✭✭✭ graememk


    It used to be something like 50 or 100kwh a month.. prob was 100kwh because I remember thinking, "id barely be able to charge my car twice with that" now its changed to "excessive amount"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Yes that's what BG has 100kwh per month which is 🐕️💩

    Not sure what EI have, probably similar.

    There's probably some fecker working there whose sole job is to make sure the house always wins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ paulbok


    Any of those tarrifs with cash back are always more expensive anyway, they will get that €200 back and then some with higher unit rates.

    Smart tarrifs are the same only on steroids.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭ yankinlk


    I know what you are saying - but they are awfully tempting. I currently have -500 in my account - and first bill with PV is 38 euro. Gonna take a while before im not using their own cash to pay the electric bill :P



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭ yankinlk


    200 from the guv'ment and 300 from switching to EI.

    TBH @paulbok I dont really care what the rate on any tariff is - my strategy is to reduce my usage to very little grid. I use almost zero day rate already so its just a few KW at night anyways. That 300 + 200 cash is gonna do me fine for a while.

    I realize if you DONT have PV then yeah - maybe u need to look at the details a little more closely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Well kwh price will count in winter for sure and also standing charges which are getting past the point ridiculous at this stage, looking at you BG with €500 for that EV tariff.

    This won't apply to the people who won the meter lottery with day/night though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Some good news for people with the smart meters it seems.

    I phoned ESB networks today and asked if you can go back to a day/night meter and apparently yes, it is still possible for now.

    They did say that going with D/N will mean no FIT but at this point who cares 😅



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭ irishchris


    Did you switch to day night meter now then? Would be interested in switching myself if possible. Although the only plan that seems worth it at the minute is energies ev plan and it is nearly 400 euro standing charge too



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    It was nearly 400, 484 as of the 15th April with their increases so it's starting to look not so good.

    Think I'll call BG next and tell them to get the smart meter swapped out but knowing my luck as soon as I do the smart tariffs will come down 😁

    Need to do the research to see who has the best D/N rates, what about you guys who do have it, who are you with?



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jonathan


    Locked in with Energia EV tariff last December for 12 month fixed rate at 6.95c/24.13c inc VAT. Rates gone up now for new joiners to 8.22c/28.57c, but still good value I think considering its fixed for 12 months. Standing charge is €308.64.

    Obviously the day rate is expensive, but if you've got EV/Solar/battery, you can make it work to your advantage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    Is that on their site? Didn't come across it yet.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jonathan




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭ irishchris


    think you are rural too if I remember correct. Just short of 400 euro standing charge on this one for us. still probably worth it as 100 cheaper than the bord gais ev plan standing charge




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭ SD_DRACULA


    In Dublin so the urban one but is this a fixed price for the year or still variable, can't find the small print.

    And it's not a million miles off their standard D/N tariff with 20.98/10.07 per kwh.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jonathan




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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,185 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    Interesting, are all Energia deals fixed for 12 months? Most other providers are upping their rates multiple times this year.



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