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Smart Tariff Unit Rates



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,922 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk

  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan

    Great. Will be moving to that when current plan is up in Jan. Existing Energia customer but they wouldn't let me move mid-contract.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,786 ✭✭✭paulbok

  • Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭reklamos

    Anyone checked or done the sums what is the best going rate at the moment for smart meters? My contract finishes in couple weeks so I started looking around. Since I have no EV but do have batteries I would like to avail of cheap night charging.

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,806 ✭✭✭✭emmet02

    Smart tarriffs can't compete with D/N meters yet.

    Seriously frustrating stuff!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA

    This from bordgais seems to be the best smart one out there that I can find:

    Basically if you have enough battery to bypass that lame Peak rate it's not too bad if you can charge up at night at the EV price

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭yankinlk

    Is there any check on the ownership of an actual EV? Or can anyone sign up and available of that rate?

    From the Tees and Cees:

    The different charging times/ bands for our Electric Vehicle (EV) Smart Tariff are: 

    a) Day: 8am to 11pm, Monday to Sunday (excluding Peak)

    b) Night: 11pm to 8am, Monday to Sunday (excluding Electric Vehicle / EV time) 

    c) Peak: 5pm to 7pm, Monday to Friday

    d) EV (Electric Vehicle) Time: 2am to 5am, Monday to Sunday

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1

    There was no check when I signed up for the Energies EV rate

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭poker--addict

    So how is it supposed to know if you are charging an EV or running the dishwasher? How smart is it? or are we saying it cant differentiate?

    An effective 4.6c night rate is good!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭yankinlk

    i was thinking like you but i think its ovethinking.

    If you get the EV contract - then the limited time (2 or 3 hours middle of night) is the EV rate - but you could charge anything. But the fair-use limit is a killer to watch out for! Someone else mentioned that in a thread... so read the fine print!

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,782 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly

    Has anyone on the standard 24 hr rate seen any savings switching to a smart plan? Bar the usual fridge stuff nothing is used during the day

  • Registered Users Posts: 44,909 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger

    Is there a specific time frame for that? I assume no, as it's not a smart plan?

    What's the catch, bar the slightly higher day rates?

    It looks a no brainer for anyone on day night meter

  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan

    No. It's a regular day/night meter plan. Day date is 24c or something, which is reasonable.

    The catch I found was that if you're dual fuel customer, the gas kWh price was relatively expensive. I'm an existing Energia dual fuel customer and my contract is up in a few days. Have renewed with them for electricity only on EV tariff. Will be moving to Bord Gais for gas.

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,922 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk

    It can't tell what is drawing the power, could be an ev or 4 fan heaters running full whack.

    Energia ev fixed plan was really good at the start, 18c/4c I think.

    But now it's 24/6.8 - mine is 20/5.

    Perfect for me as I'm about 90% night rate because of the batteries.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭irishchris

    Thankfully there is no fair usage with this bord gais plan. Their "free" sat/sun plan used to have a cap but not sure now since they changed the plans recently but this ev one doesn't have one.

    3 hours comfortably charges 10kw of batteries and their day plan is 18c which beats many of the standard and 24 HR plans day rates so happy enough with this if stays at this price.

    Noticed in the energia ev plan too it says you don't need to own an ev to avail of it

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭MAULBROOK

    Will they need a reg number and log book or something. What a load of nonsense.

  • Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭reklamos

    Had some time today and started doing my calculations. Since I have detailed stats, I can see how much I use at any time through the day. I took BordGais EV plan to see how it would work for me. Here are my numbers:

    I import ~3000kWh a year, the rest comes from PV. On a standard 24h rate this would be ~€554.7 + standing charge per year. My day patterns are 13% Night rate, 69% Day rate, 12% Peak rate, 6% EV rate. On EV plan this would come to €552.17 per year. This looks close but standing charge for EV plan is €112 more than standard plan, so I actually losing money. I have 10kWh battery so I could use cheap EV rate to charge it. But to break even I would need to shift ~800kWh/40% from day rate to EV rate. Since I cannot fully discharge the battery and also there will be charging/discharging losses I will get 8kWh out of it a day. This means that I need to charge it 100days. To see minimal savings, I estimate I would need to shift 50% of day rate to EV rate. I am really struggling to see financial sense in getting EV plan. I hope someone can find some holes in my math.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭yankinlk

    By Using night rate in battery during the day... you will artificially move some usage to night rate, without any habit changes. This is limited to whatever max rate the battery can output at any one time.

    My own usage is triple yours, and thru behaviour and 5Kw battery I have moved 50% to night rate. At night I run dishwasher and sometimes when possible the washer dryer. This didn't take much effort tbh.

    Maybe it's easier for me with greater levels of usage.

  • Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭reklamos

    Changing behavior is not a problem and my house is already streamlined and automated to save as much as possible. There is so much you can do during night. I have looked at dishwasher and washing machine and these account to ~300kWh a year and normally I run them when it is sunny. The highest users are hob and oven and these are not going to move to EV/night rate. During cooking multiple appliances are used and that usually goes above 3kW that my inverter can take from battery. Some savings can be achieved but not much. The goal is not to break even but to save and with current "smart" pricing it is hard target to achieve.

    Post edited by reklamos on

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭irishchris

    Yes true it does depend on each person's circumstances. I use roughly 12 kWh a day. The 10 kWh battery runs me comfortably from morning through to charging again the next night as is supplemented also with some solar kWh during day running base load and 2am-8am running on ev and night rate.

    Previously was on flogas then electric Ireland with day charges increasing to 21-25c a day and night rates running at 15c+ so to only be paying 4.5c a KW every day for practically all of my usage is serving me well. But without that battery ability to charge enough to cover usage this plan wouldn't suit some

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭garo

    A lot of that oven and hob usage would be at the peak rate. The EV rate does not seem to make sense for you.

  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭hognef

    Hi guys. I'm reading concerns on this thread of not being able to ever go back to standard (24 hr) tariffs once you switch to a smart plan. Where exactly is this information coming from?

    My reason for asking is that I just signed up with Electric Ireland. They have a "26% discount" standard plan, and a "Home Electric + Saver 26" smart plan, with identical pricing. Both are flat 24 hr plans. The smart plan comes with "advanced electricity insights", and, as I have a smart meter, I opted for that one because I thought the extra details might be useful.

    I'm wondering now if I've made a mistake, if this means I'll never be able to go back to a "standard" tariff (with any supplier?) However, I'm not able to find anything to confirm this. The T&C's do contain the following statement, however:

    If you are selecting a smart price plan for the first time, your  meter  will  be  reconfigured  so  that  your  supplier  will receive a minimum of three meter reads (day/night/peak). This  change cannot  be  reversed.

    I'm struggling to understand the implications of that statement. Does anyone have any ideas? Would this stop me from going back to a standard 24 hr plan?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Luckily, I'm still within the cooling-off period, so will cancel the move if that seems to be the safest option.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭irishchris

    Electric Ireland told me this over the phone too that once moved to a smart plan configuration in the system you can't go back to standard plans

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA

    That's the BS I was told as well from multiple suppliers, once you go smart you can't ever go back.

    What a load 💩 of course, it's a smart meter so it can be configured more than once but the point is to rip you off not help you.

  • Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭Geeyfds53573

    Same story here with Electric Ireland but I haven’t moved to a smart plan - hoping when contract is up that other providers will offer to help if I switch to them

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,922 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk

    I think it's a case that electric Ireland have a 24 hr smart tariff. Which is the same as their 24 hr standard one.

    But can't return to the traditional 24 hr tariffs

  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭hognef

    Indeed. From what I can see, they're alone in having such an offer. On the surface, it's preferable to the equivalent traditional 24 hr tariff (due to the additional data it makes available), but not really if opting for it forever locks you into smart plans. Obviously their offer price will cease after a year, so then or would become a case of picking from the smart plans with inflated day/night/peak prices from other suppliers.

    I just talked to them earlier today (after first having the connection dropped 8 times due to issues on their side), and cancelled my switch. They confirmed that once I go smart, I can't go back, but failed to explain how that makes any sense. They also seemed to think people would opt for their smart plans because they give them the ability to select the billing day-of-the-month. As if that's worth paying a premium for...

    I'll probably pick their equivalent trading tariff now instead, but apparently I have to wait 24 hours now before I can sign up again after cancelling the initial switch...

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭irishchris

    At least the smart rates on some plans are starting to come down as when I first signed up to a smart plan it was 25c day and 14c night. I expect to see more competition in this space over the next year albeit if gas prices level out.

    Currently with bord gais on 18c day/13.5c night/4.5c boost rate between 2-5am. With battery storage I generally cover all of my day and evening usage (8am-2am) with what I charge on the the boost hours. So only pay for the 4.5c usage hours and 13.5c rate from 5-8am but this is usually only about 0.6kw at that rate.

    Obviously for everyone it will vary depending on circumstance but for me this seems a decent all round price plan. Considering before I signed up to this with the 24hr plan I was on 19c then with increases it went to 25c and that was on a non smart meter 24 hour rate!

    Just hope to see prices continue to come down as competition picks up in this space

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  • Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭reklamos

    So I went with 'smart' plan and started adjusting my usage, it is still work in progress but here are the stats. This is just for one day but usage patterns should be the similar.

    As can be seen in charts below. 54% comes from cheapest EV rate 2-5 for battery charging and the batteries are then used through the day to minimize usage of other tariffs. Then comes Day rate and most of this is used after 19:00 with TVs, cup of tea, PCs etc. The amount of electricity coming from sun is the one that I have no control of. I was able to lower down the peak usage to minimum but if there is cooking going on, I cannot avoid this even with charged batteries as I can only pull 3kW max. out of them. The night usage is very low but this is because 5-8am the batteries are used since I can only have one schedule on inverter for charging. I think I have it sorted now with automation but need testing.

    The interesting thing is how charts are different from cost perspective.

    Compared to single tariff rate I am saving 45% a day but there is massive standing charge for 'smart' tariff. Think I should break even in 100 days if all goes well 🤞