Russia - threadbanned users in OP

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173538#Comment_120173538

I don't mean from the conflict itself, but due to the fallout after the conflict, in the medium to long term owing to the realignment of the world.

All those countries that no longer feel they have to toe the US line because internationally the US has become relatively weaker in relation to up-and-coming countries like the BRICS with China at the head of the list. I believe that this war will speed up the process of 3rd countries moving away from the US sphere of influence.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173577#Comment_120173577

Yes, that was back in 2019 ... but now the Rand Corp has changed its opinion, and wants the US to push for a settlement. I posted the link upthread.

Take the matter up with them, I'm just the messanger here.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173607#Comment_120173607

Let's imagine a wonderful world of china, iran , Belarus, India as some kind of utopia that's going to rule the world,

It's not going to happen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173607#Comment_120173607

China is totally reliant on the West for its economy. Do they loathe the west, sure. Are they stupid enough to do a Russia, after they see Russia humiliated, resorting to spitting out their dummy, threatening to fire nuclear weapons… impotent rage? I don’t think so.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173504#Comment_120173504

No, you might want to do a bit more research...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173614#Comment_120173614

These Think Tanks like Rand, are a means to try and pressure politicians and sell the policy viewpoints of filthy rich people who want government to do their bidding, thus circumventing democratic principles and processes. Most filthy rich people in the US would tend to be right leaning, and that's certainly the case with Charles Koch. What you are touting as some sort of 'independent' and intelligent view is actually just a very wealthy Republican businessman trying to influence a Democrat president, and any Republican Congressmen/Senators who don't agree with him and support Ukraine and the current US direction.

You have been suckered, basically.

https://gvwire.com/2022/03/15/us-billionaire-industrialist-koch-keeps-doing-business-with-putin/

If you look at the bottom of the article you originally linked to, you will see that the article was sponsored:

This effort was sponsored by Peter Richards. Initial funding for the Center for Analysis of U.S. Grand Strategy was provided by a seed grant from the Stand Together Trust.

Dig a little further and you will find.

The New American Engagement Initiative started in 2020 at the Atlantic Council, with $4.5 million of support from the Charles Koch Institute. The funding organization bore the name of the right-wing billionaire known for his libertarian policy inclinations and has since been rebranded as Stand Together, which has also donated to other research institutions, like the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and the RAND Corporation.

Which means you are batting for the Orcs, because Koch certainly is and your precious 'independent' Rand corp piece is nothing less than pro Putin shilling.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173504#Comment_120173504

You said the RAND corporation was important, it will be up to you to show it as such in the context of the Ukraine/russian conflict.

What is your peace plan?

russia is working to defang themselves, no one was interested in doing so up till February last year, the fact that their fangs were already blunt pre-operation is a humongous miscalculation by putin (their impotent war effort has made NATO even more powerful to the extent that third party countries are now receiving modern equipment to use against russia, this was unthinkable in January last year). That you are still shilling for russia is also no surprise.

As repeated often, the cost to the US is a pittance vs. what they were spending on military preparedness already, that you keep going on about the cost to the US shows how inept your position is.

Discodog

The Iranian defence ministry says it has foiled a drone attack on a military facility in the city of Isfahan.

The ministry said three drones were involved but there were no casualties.

One drone was destroyed by air defence systems and two were caught by "defence traps", causing minor damage to a building, the ministry added.

The extent of damage to the site has not been confirmed by the BBC, and there has been no immediate claim of responsibility.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64445306

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173974#Comment_120173974

The big explosions across multiple bases and facilities including one that measured 5.4 on the ritcher scale says other wise

20Wheel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173113#Comment_120173113

Yep.

charlie_says

Had a good chuckle at some recent posts.

Ukrainian morale is high! 99% of Moscow would crush Putin!

RAND Corporation is pro Russian when it's funded by the Atlantic Council!

Amazing stuff.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174033#Comment_120174033

Are you saying Ukrainian morale is low ,

Gatling

It's HiMars time again....

Railway and supply depot for the orcs ,

Heavy casualties and damage reported.

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1619625806036344832?s=20&t=CRKhR7ijqKkjGCaCRLcyCw

https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1619730391161765890?s=20&t=CRKhR7ijqKkjGCaCRLcyCw

Jackiebt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174033#Comment_120174033

Welcome to the Russia thread lol.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173577#Comment_120173577

Not only that,i think everyone overestimated Russia as well

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173529#Comment_120173529

Germany lost the war in 1942. They did not wave a white flag and go home and they fought and had support right to the bitter end. It took many years of re-education to convince them not to start another war. You can now imagine the ructions today when they are being asked to support a war, they left quite a lot of dead last time around in Ukraine, they are not inclined to repeat this. Even though though the Germans had lost, they continued to do damage for another 2 years afterwards.

It took the entry of the United States in Europe to insist on taking the shortest route to Germany to bring the war to to an end sooner, the Brits on their own could not take the fight to the continent, they could only fight in the North African desert with the aid of troops from the colonies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CqGeAmVu1I

Likewise, even if forced back to the pre-2014 borders, that's not the end. Russians may spend a few years squabbling among themselves, or other powers may make a bid for territory. Finland may see its chance to grab Karelia, China will see it's change to grab Manchuria and all the resources east of the Urals. That won't suit Europe or the United States so they will make a play for the area west of the Urals spearheaded by Poland and Turkey would like to secure the south to Kazakhstan. You think they would not do that? or would they let the place dissolve into multiple 'stans? with nukes lying around until they were no longer viable.

Another scenario is Russia takes much of the territory east of the Dniper and Ukrainian army fronts collapse and retreat to Kiev. European countries wreaked by combination of material shortages and high unemployment, no longer have the willingness to fight and a stalemate is reached. by the river being the diving line. Neither side Russia or EU will survive such an outcome and will face the economic crisis of debt collapse. Historically all sides that get involved in European land war end up broke. The only winner from this would be China, simply by not having to expect resources in the war.

At the moment the objective for Moscow is hold what they have and advance to the river and subjugate Kiev. Kiev wants to drive Russia back to the 2014 borders and have Russia pay compensation. How are they going to get there?

‘That’s called World War III’: Biden defends decision not to send jets to Ukraine

“The idea that we’re going to send in offensive equipment and have planes and tanks and trains going in with American pilots and American crews — just understand, don’t kid yourself, no matter what y’all say, that’s called World War III,” Biden told a gathering of House Democrats in Philadelphia.

Well now . . .

Ukraine expects 24 fighter jets from allies as part of first package – media

Ukraine intends to receive 24 fighter jets from international allies as part of the first batch, Yuriy Ihnat, spokesman for the Air Force Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, told the Spanish newspaper El País. "The Air Force's priority is to get American F-16s, although Kyiv is considering the option of French Rafale and Swedish Gripen," the newspaper writes.

Wars never pan out the way their planners intended.

Gatling

@Pa ElGrande Wars never pan out the way their planners intended.

Just ask the Russians about their 3 days to conquer Ukraine.....

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174169#Comment_120174169

Well now indeed. Biden was specifically referencing "American pilots and American crews" That's the WW3 bit, not the offensive equipment, which the US and many others have been supplying since the start of this.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174184#Comment_120174184

Indeed. Just ask the American neocons (Dugin equivalent) bringing "freedom and democracy" to the Iraqis, who would welcome them with open arms. In practice they unleashed a civil war, increased Iranian influence and jump started Islamic state. I remember being in the United States in 2002, there was wall to wall media coverage with every American general and spokesman telling Americans they had the invasion as good as wrapped up. By 2006 the Americans were looking for the exits, they withdrew under Obamas reign. Putin and co did not learn any lessons from that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WejYdT3Lof8

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174250#Comment_120174250

Pure whataboutry ....

They invaded Iraq twice and beat the Iraqi twice and then came back to fight isis .

Remind us what did Russia do in all the time occupied a small part of Georgia and part of Ukraine,

And lost over 100,000 men , thousands of tanks,Apcs , aircraft in a little over 9 months this year

Compare the losses from Iraq and enjoy the laugher

macraignil

More success for Ukraine in disrupting supply lines of the russian invasion force:

https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1619722623604387841

SortingYouOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174270#Comment_120174270

You need to re-familiarise yourself with the definition of whataboutery. Providing another example of a war not going to plan, while agreeing with your own point on Russia's plan to invade Ukraine, isn't whataboutery. I think it is safe to say that the invasion of Iraq and the invasion of Ukraine, both unique and independing of one another, didn't go to plan. Not every post is an attempt to fly this flag or that flag, and then warranting your immediate shutdown.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174237#Comment_120174237

In the last two major wars in Europe involving the Americans. They let both sides fight to standstill before putting boots on the ground. The 2024 election is coming up and the candidates will be lining up, getting American boots on the group in 2023 is a non runner. It may be 2025 before we see Americans take a front line role, amusing the Chinese are patient enough to do a Sun Su and wait by the river long enough for the bodies of their enemies to float by. Before that happens internal strife within China may see the Communist party use nationalism to deflect from their corruption and incompetence and start a war, the question is whether the direction will be Taiwan or Manchuria.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173504#Comment_120173504

Re enormous cost... In present day terms, I believe that out of its huge and I mean the literally, huge US Defense budget of 1.01 Trillion $ for 2023, the war in Ukraine is costing peanuts, relatively speaking. For sure, it will cost a damn sight more if Russia wins, and at some future date the US will face a conflict with China over Taiwan , then it will have to face both China and re-invigorated Russia. Then watch the costs rise astronomically. Nope, better for everyone, world wide that Russia be soundly defeated, and its threats to the world eliminated as much as possible.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173011#Comment_120173011

The Mig31 is not the old Foxbat. It has totally different engines and a suite of some of the most sophisticated avionics out there. It's about the most advanced in the Russian fleet. It's limited to just under Mach 3 but is happy out cruising at Mach 2 with a service ceiling of 80,000. the engines don't clap out like you suggest. That's the old MIG 25. It also launches AA missiles and has been doing. At one point last autumn they were firing six of these 200+ mile range fire and forget AA missiles(which Ukraine don't have) at aircraft within Ukraine per day.

The airspace in Iraq wasn't close to "heavily contested" . I've no idea where you'e getting that idea from. The Iraqi airforce were a busted flush within days and a couple of hundred of their fighters/bombers legged it to Iran for safety in the first fortnight. There were ground-air defences around places like Baghdad alright, many of which were taken out in the early days and weeks. A-10's flying around looking to splat tanks and the like were pretty much free to do so for the most part and had top down cover, yet still took a few hits from ground fire. Again nothing like Ukraine. To take the previous Stuka analogy it would be akin to comparing Stuka's operating in Poland versus operating over southern England.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174303#Comment_120174303

It went to plan invade and defeat the Iraqi army ,job done,

The massive insurgencies and tribal blood letting wasn't a part of the original plan , but that insurgency was put down and defeated , then came isis and they were also defeated thanks to American firepower and Kurdish forces on the ground,

Not the Russians as some have previously claimed on boards.

But compare the losses of the Americans in Iraq less than 10,000 men for how many years fighting combat daily,and compare to the Russians losses in Ukraine for the last 11 months, and still increasing

Just to poke fun, vlad the mad, style icon

https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1619707015877791745?s=20&t=jCWXaUOTA2fGXSyPJ7VUSg

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173614#Comment_120173614

I wonder if Rand consulted the Ukrainians before publicizing their report? Does not look like it anyhow. And if the Rand Corporation ever found themselves in the same situation that Ukraine finds itself in, would it change their opinion about outcomes? Ukrainians have two choices, either passively allow themselves to be slaughtered, or to die fighting. That's it. Something that no Rand Corporation Executive has had to face, but would not be a bad thing if some of these "Corporation Executive's" come with an asse's roar of a conflict zone. A small dose of reality would go along way.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174270#Comment_120174270

While I am not defending the poster you replied to as I am not. You are been generous with saying they defeated the iraq twice. In the first you can say they got them out of Kuwait but then let them go and in the second there reason for invading was a pure work of fiction and the power vacuum they caused let ISIS in who are still there

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174325#Comment_120174325

Like all previous Soviet wonderwaffen aircraft they are overrated and no the mig31 can't fly sustained Mach 2.8 as they claim,it's maybe be able to get up to that speed for all but limited time before the engines start to fail ,it's a point defense aircraft like the mig29 you believe can take a Squadron of F-16s and and beat them,seems no experts in the aviation world share your opinion neither do the US and Nato pilots who have flown both the mig and f16s

It's a show pony flys fast launches a cruise missile and then flees for safety of Russia .

And yet A10s got shot down in Iraq and multiple survived SAM hits

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174322#Comment_120174322

I've already replied to that, as another poster brought up the same point. Suffice it to say here that cost is not always counted in purely monetary terms.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174348#Comment_120174348

What makes you feel that Rand should consult the Ukrainians when they want the US government to follow a particular policy?