Russia - threadbanned users in OP

deirdremf · 29-01-2023 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172602#Comment_120172602

You might want to do a little more research into the Rand corporation if this is your opinion. I'll leave that task up to you though, I'm not your nanny.

Regarding the Ukraine war, I don't think Russia is doing any favours to itself, but as you say, the idea was to "defang" Russia to use your term. And it might well do so, but at enormous cost to the US. When I cast a glance around the world I see a realignment taking place that is not in the US's favour. When this war is over I feel that the US will find itself more isolated than before, and China more powerful - as the ones who kept out of the fight and made no new enemies in the process.

cnocbui · 29-01-2023 3:32pm

https://youtu.be/EkvQeb6oEw0

An SUV with a z-swastika burned down on Altufiyevo Highway in Moscow. Ukrainian DRGs work while Muscovites sleep.

Nice.

29-01-2023 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173328#Comment_120173328

“it does seem the government retains significant support across the population of the Russian federation for the time being and will not withdraw.”

Depends on what exactly you assume. If, in a terrorist, mafia, dictator run state you’ll find very few people openly critical of Putin’s regime, you are correct. Pretty meaningless though.

As for ‘working’ on this… thanks for confirmation.

As for “mighty” Russia versus the waking giant of the west proxy fighting against the economic minnow that is Russia, then piss off with your dire warnings. Russia reached peak economic disturbance… give a look at fuel costs.

Russia has already lost… just takes Russophiles time to realise. Bit like Hitler in HIS bunker commanding devastated divisions thinking he could win the war. Hitler 2.0, same.

mikewest · 29-01-2023 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173504#Comment_120173504

it might well do so, but at enormous cost to the US

You mean at a fraction of the cost of Afghanistan don't you.

Gatling · 29-01-2023 3:52pm

@Pa ElGrande There is a lot of focus in this thread on the latest wonder weapon from NATO countries, being the solution, there is much less discussion about the current moral and damage to the Ukrainian army over the last 12 months. In the last 2 months, .

That's utter tosh ,

Ukrainian morale is pretty much high across the board,and they have increased in size both in power and equipment, vehicles and armor along with heavy artillery and aircraft,

I think your showing nothing but a pure bias towards the Kremlin and it's propaganda

29-01-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173538#Comment_120173538

WW1 was the catalyst for the US to become a dominant world power.

Somehow I don’t think the US will come out too bad from this. No need to worry about them.

As for Russian ordinance, unless turret tossing becomes a competitive sport or stationary Russian military aircraft come into vogue as decorative pieces it’s not looking too promising for them.

cnocbui · 29-01-2023 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120171761#Comment_120171761

Lol

Rand Corp: how to destroy Russia

Rand analysts estimate that Russia’s greatest vulnerability is that of its economy, due to its heavy dependency on oil and gas exports. The income from these exports can be reduced by strengthening sanctions and increasing the energy exports of the United States. The goal is to oblige Europe to diminish its importation of Russian natural gas, and replace it by liquefied natural gas transported by sea from other countries.

Another way of destabilising the Russian economy in the long run is to encourage the emigration of qualified personnel, particularly young Russians with a high level of education. In the ideological and information sectors, it would be necessary to encourage internal contestation and at the same time, to undermine Russia’s image on the exterior, by excluding it from international forums and boycotting the international sporting events that it organises.

In the geopolitical sector, arming Ukraine would enable the USA to exploit the central point of Russia’s exterior vulnerability, but this would have to be carefully calculated in order to hold Russia under pressure without slipping into a major conflict, which it would win.

https://strategic-culture.org/news/2019/05/23/rand-corp-how-destroy-russia/

That's from 2019. All good except the last part, they understimated Ukraine.

It's as if Putin read that report and decided to take actions designed to ensure every suggestion was implemented: '...that's the gas exports taken care of, now let's see, if we announce a mobilisation to feed people into a meat grinder, the smart ones will all leave the country...I like it, we shall do that.'

deirdremf · 29-01-2023 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173538#Comment_120173538

I don't mean from the conflict itself, but due to the fallout after the conflict, in the medium to long term owing to the realignment of the world.

All those countries that no longer feel they have to toe the US line because internationally the US has become relatively weaker in relation to up-and-coming countries like the BRICS with China at the head of the list. I believe that this war will speed up the process of 3rd countries moving away from the US sphere of influence.

deirdremf · 29-01-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173577#Comment_120173577

Yes, that was back in 2019 ... but now the Rand Corp has changed its opinion, and wants the US to push for a settlement. I posted the link upthread.

Take the matter up with them, I'm just the messanger here.

Gatling · 29-01-2023 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173607#Comment_120173607

Let's imagine a wonderful world of china, iran , Belarus, India as some kind of utopia that's going to rule the world,

It's not going to happen

29-01-2023 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173607#Comment_120173607

China is totally reliant on the West for its economy. Do they loathe the west, sure. Are they stupid enough to do a Russia, after they see Russia humiliated, resorting to spitting out their dummy, threatening to fire nuclear weapons… impotent rage? I don’t think so.

cnocbui · 29-01-2023 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173504#Comment_120173504

No, you might want to do a bit more research...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173614#Comment_120173614

These Think Tanks like Rand, are a means to try and pressure politicians and sell the policy viewpoints of filthy rich people who want government to do their bidding, thus circumventing democratic principles and processes. Most filthy rich people in the US would tend to be right leaning, and that's certainly the case with Charles Koch. What you are touting as some sort of 'independent' and intelligent view is actually just a very wealthy Republican businessman trying to influence a Democrat president, and any Republican Congressmen/Senators who don't agree with him and support Ukraine and the current US direction.

You have been suckered, basically.

https://gvwire.com/2022/03/15/us-billionaire-industrialist-koch-keeps-doing-business-with-putin/

If you look at the bottom of the article you originally linked to, you will see that the article was sponsored:

This effort was sponsored by Peter Richards. Initial funding for the Center for Analysis of U.S. Grand Strategy was provided by a seed grant from the Stand Together Trust.

Dig a little further and you will find.

The New American Engagement Initiative started in 2020 at the Atlantic Council, with $4.5 million of support from the Charles Koch Institute. The funding organization bore the name of the right-wing billionaire known for his libertarian policy inclinations and has since been rebranded as Stand Together, which has also donated to other research institutions, like the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and the RAND Corporation.

Which means you are batting for the Orcs, because Koch certainly is and your precious 'independent' Rand corp piece is nothing less than pro Putin shilling.

astrofool · 29-01-2023 5:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173504#Comment_120173504

You said the RAND corporation was important, it will be up to you to show it as such in the context of the Ukraine/russian conflict.

What is your peace plan?

russia is working to defang themselves, no one was interested in doing so up till February last year, the fact that their fangs were already blunt pre-operation is a humongous miscalculation by putin (their impotent war effort has made NATO even more powerful to the extent that third party countries are now receiving modern equipment to use against russia, this was unthinkable in January last year). That you are still shilling for russia is also no surprise.

As repeated often, the cost to the US is a pittance vs. what they were spending on military preparedness already, that you keep going on about the cost to the US shows how inept your position is.

Discodog · 29-01-2023 5:12pm

The Iranian defence ministry says it has foiled a drone attack on a military facility in the city of Isfahan.

The ministry said three drones were involved but there were no casualties.

One drone was destroyed by air defence systems and two were caught by "defence traps", causing minor damage to a building, the ministry added.

The extent of damage to the site has not been confirmed by the BBC, and there has been no immediate claim of responsibility.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64445306

Gatling · 29-01-2023 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173974#Comment_120173974

The big explosions across multiple bases and facilities including one that measured 5.4 on the ritcher scale says other wise

20Wheel · 29-01-2023 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173113#Comment_120173113

Yep.

charlie_says · 29-01-2023 5:29pm

Had a good chuckle at some recent posts.

Ukrainian morale is high! 99% of Moscow would crush Putin!

RAND Corporation is pro Russian when it's funded by the Atlantic Council!

Amazing stuff.

Gatling · 29-01-2023 5:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174033#Comment_120174033

Are you saying Ukrainian morale is low ,

Gatling · 29-01-2023 5:58pm

It's HiMars time again....

Railway and supply depot for the orcs ,

Heavy casualties and damage reported.

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1619625806036344832?s=20&t=CRKhR7ijqKkjGCaCRLcyCw

https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1619730391161765890?s=20&t=CRKhR7ijqKkjGCaCRLcyCw

Jackiebt · 29-01-2023 6:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174033#Comment_120174033

Welcome to the Russia thread lol.

29-01-2023 6:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173577#Comment_120173577

Not only that,i think everyone overestimated Russia as well

Pa ElGrande · 29-01-2023 6:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173529#Comment_120173529

Germany lost the war in 1942. They did not wave a white flag and go home and they fought and had support right to the bitter end. It took many years of re-education to convince them not to start another war. You can now imagine the ructions today when they are being asked to support a war, they left quite a lot of dead last time around in Ukraine, they are not inclined to repeat this. Even though though the Germans had lost, they continued to do damage for another 2 years afterwards.

It took the entry of the United States in Europe to insist on taking the shortest route to Germany to bring the war to to an end sooner, the Brits on their own could not take the fight to the continent, they could only fight in the North African desert with the aid of troops from the colonies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CqGeAmVu1I

Likewise, even if forced back to the pre-2014 borders, that's not the end. Russians may spend a few years squabbling among themselves, or other powers may make a bid for territory. Finland may see its chance to grab Karelia, China will see it's change to grab Manchuria and all the resources east of the Urals. That won't suit Europe or the United States so they will make a play for the area west of the Urals spearheaded by Poland and Turkey would like to secure the south to Kazakhstan. You think they would not do that? or would they let the place dissolve into multiple 'stans? with nukes lying around until they were no longer viable.

Another scenario is Russia takes much of the territory east of the Dniper and Ukrainian army fronts collapse and retreat to Kiev. European countries wreaked by combination of material shortages and high unemployment, no longer have the willingness to fight and a stalemate is reached. by the river being the diving line. Neither side Russia or EU will survive such an outcome and will face the economic crisis of debt collapse. Historically all sides that get involved in European land war end up broke. The only winner from this would be China, simply by not having to expect resources in the war.

At the moment the objective for Moscow is hold what they have and advance to the river and subjugate Kiev. Kiev wants to drive Russia back to the 2014 borders and have Russia pay compensation. How are they going to get there?

‘That’s called World War III’: Biden defends decision not to send jets to Ukraine

“The idea that we’re going to send in offensive equipment and have planes and tanks and trains going in with American pilots and American crews — just understand, don’t kid yourself, no matter what y’all say, that’s called World War III,” Biden told a gathering of House Democrats in Philadelphia.

Well now . . .

Ukraine expects 24 fighter jets from allies as part of first package – media

Ukraine intends to receive 24 fighter jets from international allies as part of the first batch, Yuriy Ihnat, spokesman for the Air Force Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, told the Spanish newspaper El País. "The Air Force's priority is to get American F-16s, although Kyiv is considering the option of French Rafale and Swedish Gripen," the newspaper writes.

Wars never pan out the way their planners intended.

Gatling · 29-01-2023 6:23pm

@Pa ElGrande Wars never pan out the way their planners intended.

Just ask the Russians about their 3 days to conquer Ukraine.....

Wibbs · 29-01-2023 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174169#Comment_120174169

Well now indeed. Biden was specifically referencing "American pilots and American crews" That's the WW3 bit, not the offensive equipment, which the US and many others have been supplying since the start of this.

Pa ElGrande · 29-01-2023 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174184#Comment_120174184

Indeed. Just ask the American neocons (Dugin equivalent) bringing "freedom and democracy" to the Iraqis, who would welcome them with open arms. In practice they unleashed a civil war, increased Iranian influence and jump started Islamic state. I remember being in the United States in 2002, there was wall to wall media coverage with every American general and spokesman telling Americans they had the invasion as good as wrapped up. By 2006 the Americans were looking for the exits, they withdrew under Obamas reign. Putin and co did not learn any lessons from that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WejYdT3Lof8

Gatling · 29-01-2023 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174250#Comment_120174250

Pure whataboutry ....

They invaded Iraq twice and beat the Iraqi twice and then came back to fight isis .

Remind us what did Russia do in all the time occupied a small part of Georgia and part of Ukraine,

And lost over 100,000 men , thousands of tanks,Apcs , aircraft in a little over 9 months this year

Compare the losses from Iraq and enjoy the laugher

macraignil · 29-01-2023 6:48pm

More success for Ukraine in disrupting supply lines of the russian invasion force:

https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1619722623604387841

SortingYouOut · 29-01-2023 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174270#Comment_120174270

You need to re-familiarise yourself with the definition of whataboutery. Providing another example of a war not going to plan, while agreeing with your own point on Russia's plan to invade Ukraine, isn't whataboutery. I think it is safe to say that the invasion of Iraq and the invasion of Ukraine, both unique and independing of one another, didn't go to plan. Not every post is an attempt to fly this flag or that flag, and then warranting your immediate shutdown.

Pa ElGrande · 29-01-2023 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174237#Comment_120174237

In the last two major wars in Europe involving the Americans. They let both sides fight to standstill before putting boots on the ground. The 2024 election is coming up and the candidates will be lining up, getting American boots on the group in 2023 is a non runner. It may be 2025 before we see Americans take a front line role, amusing the Chinese are patient enough to do a Sun Su and wait by the river long enough for the bodies of their enemies to float by. Before that happens internal strife within China may see the Communist party use nationalism to deflect from their corruption and incompetence and start a war, the question is whether the direction will be Taiwan or Manchuria.

jmreire · 29-01-2023 7:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120173504#Comment_120173504

Re enormous cost... In present day terms, I believe that out of its huge and I mean the literally, huge US Defense budget of 1.01 Trillion $ for 2023, the war in Ukraine is costing peanuts, relatively speaking. For sure, it will cost a damn sight more if Russia wins, and at some future date the US will face a conflict with China over Taiwan , then it will have to face both China and re-invigorated Russia. Then watch the costs rise astronomically. Nope, better for everyone, world wide that Russia be soundly defeated, and its threats to the world eliminated as much as possible.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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