First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 **MOD NOTE IN OP**

Vestiapx

Vestiapx wrote: »

I don't understand your point.

Honestly? You don't?

suicide_circus

Sport was always segregated by sex - for reasons which are obvious to all - the idea that sport is or should be be segregated by the "social construct of gender" is just plain stupid - for reasons which are obvious to all. The upside to this episode is that a lot more people will become aware of just how ridiculous this crap has become.

Hego Damask

Vestiapx wrote: »

That guy is misgendering. Misgendering is disgusting. This is really a case of don't blame the player blame the game so if the Olympics allow transgender athletes then it's not a case of this lifter taking someones spot it's simply her spot.
If the Olympics ban transgender athletes the repercussions are large. However it should simply be a matter of making the athletes pass a level of male hormones that is less than double the largest of non transgender athletes. Currently the levels of test allowed is many multiples of this.

It is what it is.

He is no more a woman than a monkey is a pig.
That might hurt your feelings, but facts are facts.

done deal.

Vestiapx

Vestiapx wrote: »

I don't understand your point.

You don't think there is any difference between a woman and a trans woman?

At all?

Jimbob1977

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Caitlyn Jenner is stunning and brave

Caitlyn Jenner at least understands those who consider it unfair, and doesn't view that as transphobic.

Vestiapx

Vestiapx wrote: »

That guy is misgendering. Misgendering is disgusting. This is really a case of don't blame the player blame the game so if the Olympics allow transgender athletes then it's not a case of this lifter taking someones spot it's simply her spot.
If the Olympics ban transgender athletes the repercussions are large. However it should simply be a matter of making the athletes pass a level of male hormones that is less than double the largest of non transgender athletes. Currently the levels of test allowed is many multiples of this.

But if you spent 20+ years developing as a male and then transition it doesn't matter what your current male hormones are. You developed physically as a male. Bigger and more muscles, bigger and denser bones, etc.

Vestiapx

Vestiapx wrote: »

That guy is misgendering. Misgendering is disgusting.

**** the word salad. It works both ways.

He is accurately biological sexing. Not misgendering.

Don't misrepresent it.

Gender is fluid so any definition may be misgendering.

The fact is, the weightlifter is a biological male.

Do you agree?

Donald Trump

Genuine question.

A few years back, Castor Semanya (I might have spelled that incorrectly) had to undergo tests to prove she was female enough to run in womens races. In her case, it was just due to how she was born.

Are there similar tests for people who deliberately "transitioned".

DeadHand

Vestiapx wrote: »

If the Olympics ban transgender athletes the repercussions are large. However it should simply be a matter of making the athletes pass a level of male hormones that is less than double the largest of non transgender athletes. Currently the levels of test allowed is many multiples of this.

Hormones are no sure equaliser though.

Irregardless of hormonal levels, a person who went through puberty as a male possesses enormous physiological advantages over a person who went through puberty as a female.

Longer limbs, denser bones, larger feet and hands, greater lung capacity, a larger heart, a more robust skeletal structure and so on and so on.

Sports were segregated by sex since the inception of organised sport for good reason.

Allowing biological males to compete with females is unsporting, immoral and dangerous.

This is absolute madness and needs to be recognised as such.

Tilden Katz

Donald Trump wrote: »

Genuine question.

A few years back, Castor Semanya (I might have spelled that incorrectly) had to undergo tests to prove she was female enough to run in womens races. In her case, it was just due to how she was born.

Are there similar tests for people who deliberately "transitioned".

The tests were to determine whether Semenya had a DSD (disorder of sexual development). Most people who are transgender won’t have that. They are two different things.

MagoP

Jaysus. That's all I have to say on the matter.

Jimbob1977

The Williams sisters are excellent tennis players.

When they faced a man ranked 203rd in the world in the same afternoon, he trounced them.

Why? His serves were harder, shots were faster and his longer limbs meant that he could cover more ground in less time.

It wasn't that he was better. He just held biological advantages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U4KGz72SEg

This is a video of an MMA fight between a cis woman and a transgender woman. The cis woman apparently didn't know she was fighting a transgender woman, and she ended up with a skull fracture.

"Progress"

DeadHand

DeadHand wrote: »

Hormones are no sure equaliser though.

Irregardless of hormonal levels, a person who went through puberty as a male possesses enormous physiological advantages over a person who went through puberty as a female.

Longer limbs, denser bones, larger feet and hands, greater lung capacity, a larger heart, a more robust skeletal structure and so on and so on.

Sports were segregated by sex since the inception of organised sport for good reason.

Allowing biological males to compete with females is unsporting, immoral and dangerous.

This is absolute madness and needs to be recognised as such.

Allowing biological men to compete with women is as absurd as allowing under 12's compete with a senior team.

Makes a mockery of the whole sport.

Same idiots advocating for this will also be the ones complaining about the gender pay gap.

Donald Trump

Tilden Katz wrote: »

The tests were to determine whether Semenya had a DSD (disorder of sexual development). Most people who are transgender won’t have that. They are two different things.

I understand they are two different things. But the point was that they subjected her to a series of tests based on the possibility that she might have some advantages due to having suspected male characteristics in her genetic makeup. In the end up she was passed as allowed to compete as a fair competitor.



So do they have similar tests for the transgenders. Not the exact same tests I mean, but similar in principle.


I'm not commenting on rights or wrongs. I'm just asking whether they have criteria. If they do, and the weightlifter passed them, then people can't complain. Well if they do, the are really complaining about the tests.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U4KGz72SEg

This is a video of an MMA fight between a cis woman and a transgender woman. The cis woman apparently didn't know she was fighting a transgender woman, and she ended up with a skull fracture.

"Progress"

Ah chief... Don't let them make you use cis. A woman Vs a trans woman maybe.

Don't let them do this to you.

Jimbob1977

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The Williams sisters are excellent tennis players.

When they faced a man ranked 203rd in the world in the same afternoon, he trounced them.

Why? His serves were harder, shots were faster and his longer limbs meant that he could cover more ground in less time.

It wasn't that he was better. He just held biological advantages.

In fairness, he was better.

No shame in that.

Jimbob1977

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The Williams sisters are excellent tennis players.

When they faced a man ranked 203rd in the world in the same afternoon, he trounced them.

Why? His serves were harder, shots were faster and his longer limbs meant that he could cover more ground in less time.

It wasn't that he was better. He just held biological advantages.

And V and S are extremely physically strong and broadly built women. So much so that idiots have likened them to dudes in an insulting manner.

Lol at the deludanoids on Twitter (so many of them women) doing the whole faux puzzled "I don't see the issue here" thing because of how cool they think it looks. And of course the false allegations (such as denying the existence of trans people, not wanting trans people to live, etc). Doublethink.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah chief... Don't make them make you use cis. A woman Vs a trans woman maybe.

Don't let them do this to you.

Yeah brainboru obviously doesn't mean anything bad but...

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1407051156912738305?s=19

(LOL at the brocialist saying "so are transwomen").

Just "woman" or "women" - fu(k "cis".

Donald Trump

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The Williams sisters are excellent tennis players.

When they faced a man ranked 203rd in the world in the same afternoon, he trounced them.

Why? His serves were harder, shots were faster and his longer limbs meant that he could cover more ground in less time.

It wasn't that he was better. He just held biological advantages.

Well the standard to be 203rd in the world in the mens might actually be higher than the standard needed to be 1st in the womens. I don't know enough about tennis to say that for certain but I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

endacl

I got back to the gym after a loooong break last week. Had really missed it. As before, there were plenty of people back on the benches, making heavy things go up and down. There was one girl I'd be on nodding terms with. Good to see her again. A lifter. Not a 'squat away there and harden your ar5s cheeks' lifter. A 'lifter' lifter. I'd guess late 20s, built solid. Carries a pen and notebook to track progress, and shifts weight. Had obviously been keeping up with her training over lockdown.

Now, for context... I'm 48 this year. 6'4" and tipping 17.5 stone. Didn't do a tap of exercise since the gyms closed. Really let myself go. Didn't get flabby, but I started back on about 30-40% of where I was 18 months ago, and really felt it. I wasn't too far behind her. I'd say if I put my mind to it, it wouldn't take long to catch up. There were loads of young fellas there, taking it all very seriously, and lifting multiples of what she or I could - and fair play to them!

Point is, I suppose, if she competes (and I have no idea if she does), and I or any of the young fellas identified as female and competed against her, she could forget about winning. It'd be chasing PBs all the way for her, and that's simply not fair.

Where are all the trans men in elite power sports? In the gym, training away and meeting reality when they try to compete at the top level.

What's the point I'm making? Haven't a scooby do. Inclusion by excluding doesn't sit right with me though.

Stihl waters

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

It wasn't that he was better. He just held biological advantages.

That makes no sense, by the virtue of the fact he had biologically superior advantages he was indeed better than them

Donald Trump

endacl wrote: »

I got back to the gym after a loooong break last week. Had really missed it. As before, there were plenty of people back on the benches, making heavy things go up and down. There was one girl I'd be on nodding terms with. Good to see her again. A lifter. Not a 'squat away there and harden your ar5s cheeks' lifter. A 'lifter' lifter. I'd guess late 20s, built solid. Carries a pen and notebook to track progress, and shifts weight. Had obviously been keeping up with her training over lockdown.

Now, for context... I'm 48 this year. 6'4" and tipping 17.5 stone. Didn't do a tap of exercise since the gyms closed. Really let myself go. Didn't get flabby, but I started back on about 30-40% of where I was 18 months ago, and really felt it. I wasn't too far behind her. I'd say if I put my mind to it, it wouldn't take long to catch up. There were loads of young fellas there, taking it all very seriously, and lifting multiples of what she or I could - and fair play to them!

Point is, I suppose, if she competes (and I have no idea if she does), and I or any of the young fellas identified as female and competed against her, she could forget about winning. It'd be chasing PBs all the way for her, and that's simply not fair.

Where are all the trans men in elite power sports? In the gym, training away and meeting reality when they try to compete at the top level.

What's the point I'm making? Haven't a scooby do. Inclusion by excluding doesn't sit right with me though.

Nah man, she's carrying the pen and notebook so she can write down your number for when you finally work up the courage to approach her to ask her out










Your car registration number that is .... so that she can report you to the Guards :P

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah chief... Don't let them make you use cis. A woman Vs a trans woman maybe.

Don't let them do this to you.

I'm not aiming it at you though, it's aimed at "them", as you put it. I'm presenting the evidence, draped in the politically correct language. The focus is therefore on the video, not my phrasing.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not aiming it at you though, it's aimed at "them", as you put it. I'm presenting the evidence, draped in the politically correct language. The focus is therefore on the video, not my phrasing.

Oh I know. Just don't pander to "them". The more cis is used, the more chance it has that it will stick

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh I know. Just don't pander to "them". The more cis is used, the more chance it has that it will stick

The more "unacceptable" language I use in my video post, the easier they can dismiss it.

If I said "watch this man beating up this woman", their response would be that I misgendered therefore the video of a woman's skull being crushed can be dismissed.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The more "unacceptable" language I use in my video post, the easier they can dismiss it.

If I said "watch this man beating up this woman", their response would be that I misgendered therefore the video of a woman's skull being crushed can be dismissed.

Yes, deflecting from the actual concern with semantics about the way something's written - common tactic.

timeToLive

when is this event - I will watch it with popcorn

Sheeps

The beginning of the end for women's Olympic sports really. Hard to look at it any other way than as theft. Some poor biological woman missed out on representing her country at the Olympics, and more women will be robbed of their medals.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The more "unacceptable" language I use in my video post, the easier they can dismiss it.

If I said "watch this man beating up this woman", their response would be that I misgendered therefore the video of a woman's skull being crushed can be dismissed.

Fair point