The Tipperary GAA Discussion Thread

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078754#Comment_122078754

I'm at a slight disadvantage to you then as I usually read the words people write to try to figure out what they're saying. I can't work out whether he thinks they are really good and should be achieving more (as underachievers) or not so good at all because he says both. Obviously you have some other method of deciphering what the hell is going on.

farmerval

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122075227#Comment_122075227

The most disappointing piece has been the players that came through after 2009/2010 never became leaders with the exception of Ronan.

The likes of Forde, Dan McCormack, Seamus Kennedy they've had good days but were never able to lead or inspire the players around them.

Cahill has done some funny stuff, playing Gearoid O Connor when he was playing loads with UL, risking an injury, there's lots of bits that don't fit, Bryan O Meara was always going to be centre back, yet he hardly played there for the league.

Every team that plays Limerick ends up losing shape, chasing shadows etc. but in comparison to Sheedy's teams Cahill's don't ever seem to have an attacking plan. Under Sheedy we always isolated either Ronan or Noel in the left half back area, fed the ball to them, and they distributed to the inside forwards, good ball to the forwards advantage. Now all we do is lump it down long.

When Clare did the same last week Limerick did the same thing to them. Mopped up the same way, did basically the very same thing and yet after 6 weeks to prepare we go out and follow Clare's second half strategy.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122078880#Comment_122078880

I would also ask what exactly has Mikey Bevans being doing with the team for the last six months!

farmerval

I agree. Neither our skill or fitness levels appear to have improved.

Against all opposition, Limericks execution of the basics are second to none. All passes to hand clean and sharp. Even early on yesterday, there was a rushed look to our attacking play, a few points from play where we took five passes to work an opening, each pass looking closer to jeopardy than the last. The more passes that Limerick make the more in control of an opening they are, the more passes we make the greater likelihood of it going wrong.

I was disappointed after last year that the management team didn't bring in someone fresh to help out, maybe freshen up their ideas etc. Remember in their second year in Waterford Cahill/Bevans appeared to get their physical prep badly wrong, and the same with us last year.

Clare after a different type of humiliating against Limerick bounced back with a really good performance yesterday. Hopefully we can do the same.

realdanbreen

Hopefully but as you say Clare was a different type of humiliation, they dominated the game for long periods whereas we were actually dreadful throughout. Not one positive, from any player, yesterday. That's a first as long as I'm following Tipp.

KClon11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079068#Comment_122079068

I was just going to ask did anyone think any positives of any players cos I didn’t either.

osullic

I suppose it’s all been said at this point but Christ we were pure muck yesterday.
The semi final in 2012 with Lar following Tommy like a clown was a horrendous WTF moment but at least we won Munster that year this was just so disheartening.
There was no upside from that match. Jake blocked countless times and he seemed to just fold right in front of our eyes. So many others were poor too just the block downs are seared in the memory.

Overall I think this really confirms Cahill is a cod with a nasty habit of blaming his players. Both here in Tipp and in Waterford. When things go wrong blame the players and avoid taking any responsibility.

His tactics worked a treat at underage but senior hurling requires a level of tactical sophistication that Cahill and Bevans are lacking.

We had no coherent game plan and this lamping aimless high long ball into a full forward line that were comprehensively outmatched was absolutely brain dead.

The talk of wholesale changes just seems ridiculous given the team that started is just about as good as it gets. Cathal back in if fit and Noel to start are about the only improvements I would see.

Hoping beyond hope that we are ready for the battle on Saturday but I’m not optimistic given the last 4 big games.

89tipp91

Spot on osullic, you're right, not since that 2012 AI semi capitulation has there been a match like it. Tough to see a way back in a week,can only hope

evolvingtipperary101

Now that the dust is settled, we might just have to accept that the plaster is ripped now. No point going back. We have to take our medicine of the transition and just keep going with the younger lads and build this team. No point going back to starting Bonnar or Noelie now for the sake of trying to stave off big losses. A team has to be built through experience. It is what it is. Time to move on.

Every team goes through this phase and that's the way it is. Limerick might think they'll never face another bad day at the moment they way they're going (and I wouldn't be grudging them their success because the hurling is simply of a fantastic variety regardless of how easy it was for them yesterday) but they will face this too in time. The best defensive set up I've seen. But nothing lasts forever. That's not a pop, that's just a fact. No group lasts forever.

Cahill said after the league semi he was in year 2 of a 3 year transition and repeated that again yesterday. Are there questions over game plan and the game plan's suitability to the players? Yes. Was the game plan wrong against Limerick? Yes. Is that concerning? Yes. Are some players being played in the wrong positions? I think so. Did Davy change? Yes. Will Cahill change? We'll have to see how this goes.

In 2015, I'm pretty sure Limerick lost to Tipp in the Gaelic Grounds by 16 points. Things can turn around.

lim4ev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079396#Comment_122079396

I agree with this, these things come in cycles and let's be honest ye've had yer cycles a lot more than we've had through the yrs I know this will end but as a limerick man I'm enjoying it so much just hoping it keeps going for another while anyway.

Re tipp no doubt it was bad, from the outside looking in cahill looks the real deal but obviously something is not right there

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079396#Comment_122079396

Most of what you say makes perfect sense. However and there's always a However. What we saw on Sunday went beyond game plans or a team in transition. We saw big tall Tipperary forwards failing to contest high dropping balls, corner backs trying to jinks out of defence and conceding points, poor free taking, an apparent sweeper allowing a Limerick forward 30 yards space to receive the ball and score. Basically shite hurling that had nothing to do with systems plans or transition. We seem to have this notion that every score has to come about after some elaborate 4 pass movement ! It's time to get back to basics and by that I mean absolute passion drive and determination to at least contest every ball and never stand back. I don't expect Cahill and Co who by the way are extremely well looked after, to magic up some incredible hurlers but I do expect a lot more than what was shown on Sunday.

PeggyShippen

Yes I think the real disappointment for the Tipperary supporters is the lack of fight. Once Gillanes goal went in then it was game over. It's not acceptable though for fellas to pack it in for the remainder of the game. There's a lack of 'professionalism' there. Scoring difference could be crucial. There's plenty of hurling left for Tipp in this championship.

Cahill is in abit of bother himself. When his Waterford team stunk out Cusack Park a few years back they downed tools. Tipperary appeared to do something similar. Either his standards are too exacting or high for this bunch or they are abit over coached and trained. I'd say it's the later. Tipp look over trained. Also whatever strength and conditioning that's going on isn't making a huge difference . There are alot of big framed, poorly muscled fellas on that team. They are way off Limerick in that respect. You can't magic athletes out of thin air but there's a lack of power in Tipp . It's a big issue. Forde, the two McGraths....yesterday's men lads. You have to have some legs..they have none.

All that aside ye could beat Waterford . Tipp have pride at stake. Cork will beat ye and then it ll be down to the Clare game.. thats a 60/40 against tipp..Its a tricky year for the Premier..

Bobby_Bolivia

Will there even be 1000 Tipp fans travelling down?

I've decided to go but I expect it to be the lowest Tipp crowd in living memory.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081503#Comment_122081503

We're notoriously bad supporters at the best of times. No shortage of course whenever we get to croke Park but yeah there might be 1000 or so in Waterford., shocking really.

shocs07

For a county with a huge hurling tradition why are numbers so low at matches

Usrwastaken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082060#Comment_122082060

Like realdanbreen said we are notoriously poor supporters, and the last few years numbers have tanked. Until this year where we thought we had a change to go toe to toe with limerick after the draw, turnouts have been better even in the league, old stand was full nearly every game. If we dont handle waterford I wouldnt be suprised if the numbers plummet.

Usrwastaken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122080822#Comment_122080822

I think hes too hard on the players privately and publicaly. His tactics were shambolic against limerick leaving lads exposed all over the field he needs to accept the blame as the manager.

Xenophile

The footballers are in an interesting group in the Tailteann Cup

Group 2: Sligo, Antrim, Wexford, Tipperary.

PeggyShippen

Kind of ironic how people thought that because Cahill got a tune out of Waterford then he'd get Tipperary humming because they had better hurlers. Waterford probably have some of the the most talented hurlers in Ireland ,more than Tipperary right now in my opinion . That coupled with Cahills rather harsh way of conducting himself.. well..wheels are nearly off for Tipperary. They wouldn't play for Colm Bonner and they arent really playing for Cahill. There's issues in that squad and it might just be as simple as they arent good enough.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083295#Comment_122083295

So you say they wouldn't play for bonnar or cahill,then you say they might not be good enough? Which is it? Can't be both.

PeggyShippen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083317#Comment_122083317

I'd say they arent good enough. There's a lack of physique and aggression for sure but I don't think the players to really get Tipperary moving are in that squad right now. I dont know if they are in Tipp at this moment. Barratt is a big loss but he's a corner back. The midfield is terrible . That Connors up against Wil O Donoghue for the throw in was farcical. Looked all wrong.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084033#Comment_122084033

Grand so its not that they wont play for the mangers as you suggested earlier.

realdanbreen

3 personnel changes ,not including the goalkeeper, for Saturday is what I'm hearing.

farmerval

Could we get Tynan to midfield with Noel, Dan McCormack to number 10. Anyone to full forward for Mark Kehoe? Have we any knocks from last weekend?

Under Cahill we never seem to either have enough players coming off the shoulder or enough movement in the forwards. Last week Limerick hit both a load of balls down the wings for Gillane to race out to, we can't ever seem to create space anywhere. One of the striking things last Sunday was the few times we worked a half back or midfielder into space the ball delivered was 50:50, the forwards hadn't the movement to generate any room at all. Limerick have been playing the same tactic since 2019 and no-one has found the antidote yet. They flood the half back area, work the ball out with loads of short passes and off the shoulder running, create huge overlaps in the middle third and deliver fast low ball into the corners.

Two weeks ago, outside of Tipp most people had ourselves and Waterford as the most likely pair not get out of Munster. Last weekend was against the best team in the country, possibly the best team ever, Saturday will be against a very similarly ranked team as us. That will be a greater indicator of where we are. Two years ago we should have beaten them in Walsh Park, last year we never turned up, actually last year in Thurles was worse than last Sunday. Our collapse last Sunday wasn't too dissimilar to KK in last year's all Ireland.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088042#Comment_122088042

Our collapse last Sunday wasn't too dissimilar to KK in last year's all Ireland. I don't think the two games are very comparable. Tipperary never lead against Limerick for the whole game. At 51 minutes Limerick were ahead of Tipp by 10 points. At 52 minutes gone in the 2023 All-Ireland Kilkenny were behind Limerick by a point. You could consider that what happened from that point on to be a collapse, especially since Kilkenny had a relinquished a considerable lead but they were very different games in my opinion

Rosita

I'd agree with the last poster. Kilkenny people are a bit deluded about the 2023 All Ireland final in that they were not really in with a chance of winning. But they did dig in and try hard until the floodgates opened when Reid and Walsh etc. were exposed.

Last Sunday was different. Tipperary looked like that had no interest in that game last weekend. One was a demolition job rather than a collapse. The other was a no-show. Limerick didn't actually play well last weekend. Against a Tipperary team ready to play they would, like 2021, have been in big trouble at half time after that first half performance.

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088042#Comment_122088042

Would agree with those positional changes, would also like Ronan in the half back line. Hopefully we can get Barrett and Heffernan back in too.

newhouse87

Forde has to go to full forward, he has never been a wing forward, not quick enough and not great in the air, low ball into ff, he could be lethal, great strike of a ball and rarely gets hooked so can work in tight spaces.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088247#Comment_122088247

I don't agree with this poster. At the very least I'm not sure what point they are trying to make as a counter to my observation that the match last weekend between Limerick and Tipperary was much different to last years All-Ireland final.

Their suggestion that Kilkenny had no chance of winning an All-Ireland final in which they led by 5 points at 42 minutes but that Tipperary's loss to Limerick in a game in which they never led, trailed from the 14th minute and lost by 15 points was due to Tipperary "looked like that had no interest in that game" is not surprising.

This analysis of Tipperary's performance stands out among the many I have heard and seen this week as it is the first to imply that it was a "no show" from Tipperary, that Limerick didn't play well and that if Tipp did show up, it would have been in fact been more like 2021, where Tipperary led by 10 points at half time but went on to lose the second half 2-17 to 1-5, (two points more than Kilkenny lost the second half of years All-Ireland final). Exactly what point that makes, I am not sure.

shocs07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088247#Comment_122088247

So now Tipp have hurlers who like other counties train like near professionals but yet show up to play the All Ireland champions but have no interest and that's reason they lost? Seriously 🙄.