People with a funny idea of the rules of the road.

Fast2move

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Fixed that for you. Amber mean STOP, not prepare to Stop, or only stop if safe to do so., just stop.

You are joking aren’t you??

When approaching the traffic lights that are green you should anticipate that it may go to amber but you will reach a point of no return whereby if it does go to amber will be unsafe to stop and you can proceed at that point.

Where in lies the fact that Amber means stop unless safe to do so....not STOP ðŸ‘

Kewreeuss

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Please hand over your keys to a competent driver and take some driving lessons before you drive again.

1) For an amber light, you should stop if it is safe to do so.
2) If you have to jam on, you were driving too fast. It shouldn't be a surprise to any driver that a green light is going to go amber, and an amber light is going to go red. You need to be expecting the green to change, not pretending that this came as a total surprise to you.

Oh dear, what a tone!
To be precise, if I am very close to the white line that delineates the junction I am not obliged to stop, hence the reference to jamming on. If I am back slightly from the junction and it changes to amber of course I will stop. When the traffic lights are few and far between in an extraurban context the speed limits are not 30 and 50 kph, they are 60 and 80 kph. Driving in city traffic and extraurban traffic is different, and before you pounce, yes I know, the rules of the road are the same wherever.

Seth Brundle

Kewreeuss wrote: »

I understood that if you are approaching a junction and the light changes to amber you are perfectly entitled to continue if you can get across before the light turns red. If you are approaching at speed you don’t have to jam on.

You do know that green doesnt even mean "go"?

TheChizler

Kewreeuss wrote: »

This happens regularly at two junctions that I use.
The junctions are massive, so the lights are on each side of the junction, ie you stop at the lights and you can see them also over the other side.
Then the light goes green for the traffic coming from the left or the right.
The cars that do a 90 degree turn to the left turn the corner, see the red light and stop!!
There follows much horn blowing and gesticulating from behind.
This is not an occasional occurrence. Slightly to blame is the sheer size of the junctions but mostly it’s the nincompoops (to be polite) that are driving.
Has anyone else seen this happening at other junctions?

I had a driving instructor who did this going straight on at a T junction, would stamp on the dual control brakes if the lights changed from green after you entered the junction

Fast2move

Fast2move wrote: »

I’m not being pedantic but if it helps...you yield to traffic already on the roundabout. It sounds to me if you enter the roundabout and he entered the roundabout the same time you would still be ahead of him due to positioning. In theory 4 cars can enter the roundabout at the same time. It sounds to me that if you have to wait for him to enter the roundabout that’s the space that you should’ve gone into

Hope it helps

I get what you're saying, and perhaps I worded my original post too vaguely, but with some of the roundabouts (and drivers) in Dublin city, you'll end up causing an accident with that approach.

Entering a roundabout, from a position where you were at a complete standstill, at the same time as someone who was already moving above a certain speed, is suicide. The smaller the roundabout, the more true this is.

Here's a prime culprit - Link

Majority of traffic is flowing left-right and right-left. Cars coming from the right are almost all turning left (towards the camera) as that's the entrance to the supermarket car park. If you're the stopped camera car, and you enter that roundabout at the same time as the moving black car (Pulsar?), you'll end up smashing into them.

Waiting for them to clear the roundabout, only to see them turn left without indicating, happens probably a ridiculous % of the time. You're often then caught by traffic who entered the roundabout opposite yourself, and who you must now yield to. It's not uncommon to get zero signals from two or three cars on the bounce.

I guess a better example would be waiting to enter a T junction from a minor side road. Traffic already on the major road is going a decent clip, say 60kmh+. Turning onto that road from a stopped position, you have to wait for a spot with a big enough break in traffic to accommodate you. If someone is indicating turning off at the point you are entering, you're in a much better position to identify that spot than if they turn off without indicating, as your chance is now gone. If you get me?

Isambard

Deleted User wrote: »

I get what you're saying, and perhaps I worded my original post too vaguely, but with some of the roundabouts (and drivers) in Dublin city, you'll end up causing an accident with that approach.

Entering a roundabout, from a position where you were at a complete standstill, at the same time as someone who was already moving above a certain speed, is suicide. The smaller the roundabout, the more true this is.

Here's a prime culprit - Link

Majority of traffic is flowing left-right and right-left. Cars coming from the right are almost all turning left (towards the camera) as that's the entrance to the supermarket car park. If you're the stopped camera car, and you enter that roundabout at the same time as the moving black car (Pulsar?), you'll end up smashing into them.

Waiting for them to clear the roundabout, only to see them turn left without indicating, happens probably a ridiculous % of the time. You're often then caught by traffic who entered the roundabout opposite yourself, and who you must now yield to. It's not uncommon to get zero signals from two or three cars on the bounce.

I guess a better example would be waiting to enter a T junction from a minor side road. Traffic already on the major road is going a decent clip, say 60kmh+. Turning onto that road from a stopped position, you have to wait for a spot with a big enough break in traffic to accommodate you. If someone is indicating turning off at the point you are entering, you're in a much better position to identify that spot than if they turn off without indicating, as your chance is now gone. If you get me?

You give way to traffic from your right, but you don't have to give way to anyone not on the roundabout. If they pull on to the roundabout and turn left without indicating, it seems to me they weren't on the roundabout and you don't need to yield anyway.

BrianD3

Isambard wrote: »

You give way to traffic from your right, but you don't have to give way to anyone not on the roundabout. If they pull on to the roundabout and turn left without indicating, it seems to me they weren't on the roundabout and you don't need to yield anyway.

You are right but as I posted earlier, the misunderstanding of this is so widespread as to be ubiquitous. In practice, when entering a roundabout, you need to give way to traffic approaching the roundabout from the right if you want to avoid a serious collision with your car getting the worst of it on your driver's door.

IMO this is a bigger and more dangerous misunderstanding of rules than not knowing that merging traffic has to give way when entering a motorway - notwithstanding the generally higher speeds in the latter scenario.

Isambard

Isambard wrote: »

You give way to traffic from your right, but you don't have to give way to anyone not on the roundabout. If they pull on to the roundabout and turn left without indicating, it seems to me they weren't on the roundabout and you don't need to yield anyway.

If they pull onto the roundabout and don't turn left, they'll plough into the side of your car. Good luck trying to explain to them/the guards/the insurance company that they weren't on the roundabout, they were approaching the roundabout when you pulled out in front of them.

Barring any other external factors, if the other car has to brake because you entered, then you shouldn't have entered, IMO.

frozenfrozen

if you enter a roundabout while someone is approaching it then how exactly do you think they're going to straight-line it at 80km/h????

Spook_ie

Deleted User wrote: »

If they pull onto the roundabout and don't turn left, they'll plough into the side of your car. Good luck trying to explain to them/the guards/the insurance company that they weren't on the roundabout, they were approaching the roundabout when you pulled out in front of them.

Barring any other external factors, if the other car has to brake because you entered, then you shouldn't have entered, IMO.

The cars (from all directions ) should be entering with caution, the example given has Yield signs at all entrances to the RaB.

frozenfrozen

frozenfrozen wrote: »

if you enter a roundabout while someone is approaching it then how exactly do you think they're going to straight-line it at 80km/h????

1 I never said anyone is going 80 on a roundabout, that was in relation to a T-junction
2 I never said they were straight-lining it either
3 The previous poster stated that if you enter at the same time, it's fine. If you're sitting at a small roundabout such as the one in the picture, then you look to your right and see someone approaching the roundabout doing 20/30kph, pulling out in front of them is a) a dick move and b) going to cause an accident. They will close those 8 or 9 metres in less than a second, which is not enough time for you to pick up enough speed to get out of the way.

Spook_ie

Spook_ie wrote: »

The cars (from all directions ) should be entering with caution, the example given has Yield signs at all entrances to the RaB.

Correct. So should you yield to the car on your right, or should that car yield to you, being on their left?

Isambard

Deleted User wrote: »

If they pull onto the roundabout and don't turn left, they'll plough into the side of your car. Good luck trying to explain to them/the guards/the insurance company that they weren't on the roundabout, they were approaching the roundabout when you pulled out in front of them.

Barring any other external factors, if the other car has to brake because you entered, then you shouldn't have entered, IMO.

nevertheless, thems the rules. It's somewhat annoying when people yield when they don't need to and causes delays. You won't have pulled out in front of them if you enter the roundabout before they do, or even at the same moment.

frozenfrozen

Deleted User wrote: »

1 I never said anyone is going 80 on a roundabout, that was in relation to a T-junction
2 I never said they were straight-lining it either
3 The previous poster stated that if you enter at the same time, it's fine. If you're sitting at a small roundabout such as the one in the picture, then you look to your right and see someone approaching the roundabout doing 20/30kph, pulling out in front of them is a) a dick move and b) going to cause an accident. They will close those 8 or 9 metres in less than a second, which is not enough time for you to pick up enough speed to get out of the way.

no no no no no

go back and look at all the question marks and smiley face

Isambard

Isambard wrote: »

nevertheless, thems the rules. It's somewhat annoying when peaople yield when they don't need to and causes delays.

They ARE the rules, but sticking blindly to the rules "no matter what" will cause more accidents, injuries and deaths in the long run. Plus, it IS ANNOYING when you're held up unnecessarily, but it's not as annoying as losing your NCB or the use of the car for a week because you were technically correct. It's the equivalent of a cyclist saying "I have right of way" as they get squished by a 40-foot.

You won't have pulled out in front of them if you enter the roundabout before they do, or even at the same moment.

Crazy talk. If you are completely stopped, then enter that roundabout in Artane at 6 o'clock at the exact same time as another car does at 9 o'clock, when they're travelling at 20kph+ then you are:

a) pulling out in front of them
b) technically correct, according to the RotR and
c) at fault for the inevitable accident

Fast2move

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Correct. So should you yield to the car on your right, or should that car yield to you, being on their left?

I get it now exactly what you’re saying and you are right. As you’re approaching a roundabout and the car approaching from the right is obvious that they are not going to slow down upon entering the roundabout then yes yield of them even if they are not technically on the roundabout to prevent an accident

And in the case of the Artane roundabout I know what you mean it is so annoying because if they indicate left then they indicate to you that it is safe for you more or less to enter the roundabout and you feel like a chump having sat there and yielding to them

kaahooters

Deleted User wrote: »

b) technically correct, according to the RotR and
c) at fault for the inevitable accident

you cant be correct and at fault, thats not how that works.

tDw6u1bj

Isambard wrote: »

You give way to traffic from your right

In a modern context, with the way irish roads are set up...where does this ctually come into play?

Vestiapx

sumo12 wrote: »

This is MY rule - if someone is coming down the slip road to join the motorway and they do not indicate and just assume they are going to make me vanish so they can merge, I will under no circumstances let them join the motorway. Doubt that's in any Rule of the Road but it's in the common courtesy / etiquette imaginary one...

If a person isn't Indictating do you think they are planning on not joining the motorway?

Isambard

tDw6u1bj wrote: »

In a modern context, with the way irish roads are set up...where does this ctually come into play?

everywhere it doesn't say different in the signage.

tDw6u1bj

Isambard wrote: »

everywhere it doesn't say different in the signage.

Sure, and where's that?

From what I can see it's been designed out of our roads. Someone will always have proper right-of-way, so it never comes down to this.

Conversely, I've talked to multiple people who get confused about how things work because "give way to people ono the right" is drummed into them

BrianD3

tDw6u1bj wrote: »

Sure, and where's that?

From what I can see it's been designed out of our roads. Someone will always have proper right-of-way, so it never comes down to this.

There are some junctions around the country. E.g. this crossroads in Co. Cavan with 4 stop signs. This is a relatively recent development, if you look at older google street photos it used to be a standard cross roads with 2 stop signs

tDw6u1bj

BrianD3 wrote: »

There are some junctions around the country. E.g. this crossroads in Co. Cavan with 4 stop signs. This is a relatively recent development, if you look at older google street photos it used to be a standard cross roads with 2 stop signs

What the hell were they thinking. that's insane

Sam Quentin

Me Merging:: shhhhhhh shhhhh look away continue at your leisure, I will merge beautifully in a non obstructive way, I will flow gracefully into this beautiful motorway traffic and nobody will know I was even there... until I appear in front or behind. MAGNIFICO..

CoBo55

BrianD3 wrote: »

There are some junctions around the country. E.g. this crossroads in Co. Cavan with 4 stop signs. This is a relatively recent development, if you look at older google street photos it used to be a standard cross roads with 2 stop signs

There are a few like that in County Carlow too, very frustrating.

liamog

4 way stops are ridiculous and should never be used on Irish Roads

Isambard

tDw6u1bj wrote: »

Sure, and where's that?

From what I can see it's been designed out of our roads. Someone will always have proper right-of-way, so it never comes down to this.

Conversely, I've talked to multiple people who get confused about how things work because "give way to people ono the right" is drummed into them

dozens of places no doubt. For instance anywhere traffic lights fail.

SimonTemplar

tDw6u1bj wrote: »

What the hell were they thinking. that's insane

That looks like an American junction where cars proceed into the junction in the order that they arrive. Makes no sense having them on Irish roads.

Isambard

SimonTemplar wrote: »

That looks like an American junction where cars proceed into the junction in the order that they arrive. Makes no sense having them on Irish roads.

4 stop signs creates a junction identical to a roundabout in terms of priority. If there's a car to your right, you yield to it.

tDw6u1bj

Isambard wrote: »

dozens of places no doubt. For instance anywhere traffic lights fail.

Your examples are an abomination that shouldn't exist (not on irish roads, not on american ones either), and a (increasingly rare) malfunction?