People with a funny idea of the rules of the road.

Jeremy Sproket

Yesterday, I was driving northbound on the M1. A car was joining from a slip road.

I was driving at 100 km/h.

I kept my pace. He was joining at the same speed as me and showed no sign of speeding up or slowing down to join in ahead or behind me. There was a stream of cars overtaking me at 120 km/h ++ (I was keeping left at 100 km/h).

If I didn't slow down we would have collided with the slower merger but as I slowed down, so did he, I was expecting him to go in on front of me as he was trying to push his way in. I ended up slowing to 40 km/h because he was merging on front of me and slowing down causing traffic behind to swerve to avoid us. He pushed in on front us at a snails pace and sped up to 80 km/h approx. I was unable to change lanes because at this stage there was even CE lorries in the overtaking lane because of the clown.

I overtook him and moved back left and continued at 100 km/h in the left lane.

We left the motorway at the same exit and he caught up to me at traffic lights, he gestured to wind down my window and said that "you have to give way to traffic joining a motorway" ..this is bullshit isn't it?

He said I should be thankful he doesn't have a dashcam because if he did he'd be reporting me to the Gardaí. He told me to learn the rules of the road. LOL

I passed B in Sweden and had to do motorway lessons, I passed A and D1 here and no motorway lessons. Do you have to do motorway lessons for B here?

When I started driving here at 19 almost 10 years ago I took it upon myself to learn any discrepancies there may be between Irish and Swedish rules of the road.

Samuel T. Cogley

That's what's technically known as a dickhead.

aFlabbyPanda

According to https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf you should move into the next lane to allow for traffic merging onto to the motorway.

* Lane 1 – You should always use this lane for normal driving. Stay in this lane unless
you are overtaking.

• Lane 2 – On a two lane motorway, you should only use this lane for overtaking. You
must move back to lane 1 once you have finished overtaking and it is safe to do so.
You can also move into lane 2 to allow vehicles coming from your left to join the
motorway. On a 3 lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is
slower moving traffic in lane 1.

• Lane 3 – You should only use this lane if traffic in lanes 1 and 2 is moving in queues
and you need to overtake or make room for merging traffic. You should move back
to lane 1 as soon as it is safe to do so.

Update : from https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf the driver joining must give way to traffic on the motorway and must signal.

CoBo55

I usually speed up to 120 and move into the outside lane approaching junctions, saves all the hassle of dealing with dickheads like the one you just met.

POBox19

The roads are full of idiots like that. Pity he didn't have a dashcam to bring to the guards.

Wishbone Ash

The number of motorists who think it's illegal to cycle two abreast. It's perfectly legal and advisable. There's even an RSA advert campaign advising motorists of this but on every club ride there's always a few dickhead motorists who feel the need to display their ignorance of the road traffic regulations.

Samuel T. Cogley

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The number of motorists who think it's illegal to cycle two abreast. It's perfectly legal and advisable. There's even an RSA advert campaign advising motorists of this but on every club ride there's always a few dickhead motorists who feel the need to display their ignorance of the road traffic regulations.

And a few cyclists that feel the need to display their lack of consideration for anyone else on the road.

Mimon

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That's what's technically known as a dickhead.

A thick delusional one at that

Cheensbo

Only 8 posts to get from merging to bicycles, good going - probably not a record though :pac:

Mimon

CoBo55 wrote: »

I usually speed up to 120 and move into the outside lane approaching junctions, saves all the hassle of dealing with dickheads like the one you just met.

I do this if approaching what I know will be busy junctions or if it safe to do so.

Closest I ever came to a crash on a motorway was someone pulling out into my path when I was just about overtake him. He was doing it to make it easier for a car merging but obviously didn't check his mirrors.

Just had new brakes fitted and they got a good bedding in.

CoBo55

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The number of motorists who think it's illegal to cycle two abreast. It's perfectly legal and advisable. There's even an RSA advert campaign advising motorists of this but on every club ride there's always a few dickhead motorists who feel the need to display their ignorance of the road traffic regulations.

Wha?

BrianD3

If you look back at old posts in this forum you'll find plenty of cases of posters who think that merging traffic has priority or at least that traffic on the mainline should accommodate them.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62946452

Another misunderstanding of a fundamental rule of the road is in relation to traffic approaching roundabouts. People think that traffic approaching a roundabout "from the right" has priority over vehicles which enter the roundabout ahead of it. This results in a dangerous and absurd situation of, the faster someone approaches a roundabout from the right, the "more priority" they think they have. They can't stop if someone enters the roundabout in front of them while they are still 50 metres from the roundabout. But that's alright as the other road user should have given way :rolleyes: This view is so widespread that it is almost ubiquitous.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055065353

sumo12

This is MY rule - if someone is coming down the slip road to join the motorway and they do not indicate and just assume they are going to make me vanish so they can merge, I will under no circumstances let them join the motorway. Doubt that's in any Rule of the Road but it's in the common courtesy / etiquette imaginary one...

Uncle Pierre

aFlabbyPanda wrote: »

According to https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf you should move into the next lane to allow for traffic merging onto to the motorway.

* Lane 1 – You should always use this lane for normal driving. Stay in this lane unless
you are overtaking.

• Lane 2 – On a two lane motorway, you should only use this lane for overtaking. You
must move back to lane 1 once you have finished overtaking and it is safe to do so.
You can also move into lane 2 to allow vehicles coming from your left to join the
motorway. On a 3 lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is
slower moving traffic in lane 1.

• Lane 3 – You should only use this lane if traffic in lanes 1 and 2 is moving in queues
and you need to overtake or make room for merging traffic. You should move back
to lane 1 as soon as it is safe to do so.

I know somebody else has already fixed this post, but it's proof in itself of the thread title - that some people have a funny idea of the Rules of the Road.

There's a big difference between "should" and "can".

CoBo55

sumo12 wrote: »

This is MY rule - if someone is coming down the slip road to join the motorway and they do not indicate and just assume they are going to make me vanish so they can merge, I will under no circumstances let them join the motorway. Doubt that's in any Rule of the Road but it's in the common courtesy / etiquette imaginary one...

Charming. Just out of curiosity, why would anyone merging into the motorway need to indicate? You know what they're trying to do, just let them merge or if it bothers you that much accelerate past them and let them merge in behind you. Drivers like you are exactly the reason I move to the outer lane at junctions.

Hurrache

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

And a few cyclists that feel the need to display their lack of consideration for anyone else on the road.

Oh, look who heard the dog whistle. This thread is only going one way...

TherapyBoy

I don’t believe you did anything wrong but it’s important to protect yourself while driving. Take the decision out of their hands & put it into yours, speed up or slow down temporarily & they can merge in front or behind you.
Make sure you are in control of what happens to you while driving as much as possible.

Alun

The issue with pandering to the ones who barge on to the motorway thinking that they have priority is that it just reinforces that idea in their minds.

Samuel T. Cogley

TherapyBoy wrote: »

I don’t believe you did anything wrong but it’s important to protect yourself while driving. Take the decision out of their hands & put it into yours, speed up or slow down temporarily & they can merge in front or behind you.
Make sure you are in control of what happens to you while driving as much as possible.

Problem with that is when they do the same.

Mimon

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The number of motorists who think it's illegal to cycle two abreast. It's perfectly legal and advisable. There's even an RSA advert campaign advising motorists of this but on every club ride there's always a few dickhead motorists who feel the need to display their ignorance of the road traffic regulations.

Can you not crowbar cycling in here as it will ruin the thread, dozens of other threads and even whole forums to discuss this.

Also, good to be able to laugh at yourself, obviously too sensitive and had to go squealing to the mods after I made a silly joke about lycra clad men getting sweaty together.

cpoh1

BrianD3 wrote: »

Another misunderstanding of a fundamental rule of the road is in relation to traffic approaching roundabouts. People think that traffic approaching a roundabout "from the right" has priority over vehicles which enter the roundabout ahead of it. This results in a dangerous and absurd situation of, the faster someone approaches a roundabout from the right, the "more priority" they think they have. They can't stop if someone enters the roundabout in front of them while they are still 50 metres from the roundabout. But that's alright as the other road user should have given way :rolleyes: This view is so widespread that it is almost ubiquitous.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055065353

Probably one of the most misunderstood situations on a roundabout - first the person who enters the roundabout first has right of way, even if thats to the left of cars approaching. Second rule give way to the right if that person is already on the roundabout.

irish_goat

First rule of driving, assume everyone else on the road is a moron.

Fast2move

Hello folks

I’ve been a long time boards member on another account and this is my first time posting on this new one.

You have no idea the amount of grief I got on tick-tock after posting a video of how to enter the motorway correctly

The OP is correct the onus is on the cars Entering the motorway to yield to traffic already on the motorway. And the problem with people changing lanes is it reinforces in the offending peoples minds that their actions and position is correct

DaveyDave

Why do so many people assume they have right of way on a slip? So ****ing tired of cruising on the inside lane, nobody in front or behind and the bellend in the slip doesn't speed up and tried to merge exactly as I pass them. Either that or you get flashed because they had to go behind you...

There's also an unbelievable amount of people who just don't speed up. Going onto the N3 today at Clonee which is a very long slip, did 60kph the whole way down FFS.

Tchaikovsky

The driver on the slip needs to match the speed on the road they are joining. This driver was joining the road that you were on, OP, so you had priority. Whatever he said to you at the traffic lights was entitled bollix.

And no, we don't do motorway lessons here (which is evident!)

kirving

Despite you not being required to change your speed/lane to allow another care to join the motorway - you should be making reasonable accommodation so that you don't encourage a more dangers situation to occur. In most scenarios I'd advocate asserting your right of way as it stops confusion (eg: trying to be nice and flashing a car to pull out of a junction can actually have the reverse effect and put pressure on them, causing them to pull out in front of another car)

Some tips which help everyone out:

Don't overtake cars near an on-ramp. This gives the car in the left lane an opportunity to move right, and keeps you out of trouble if they do unexpectedly move right.

If you're on the motorway and a car is joining, move right if you can.

When joining, indicate this intention. Manners works both ways.

If a car is joining and they're making a meal of it, don't just sit @ 100km/h off their rear bumper because "you have right of way" when you clearly see the end of the slip road coming. You know well that the outcome could be dangerous.

Don't cross 2 lanes when joining. One lane at a time.

When joining, if the car joining in front of you is slow, hold back even more and allow them tonnes of room. You need to have space to accelerate and brake yourself.

When joining, let the car in front join first. I see way too many people trying to leapfrog the car in front, leaving the front car stuck in the slip road.

Fast2move wrote: »

the problem with people changing lanes is it reinforces in the offending peoples minds that their actions and position is correct

I 100% disagree with this statement. Things happen way too fast on a motorway to be trying to instill behaviours in a population. At 100km/h with a slip road ending, the here and now is the only thing that matters. Don't create a dangerous situation in order to teach a lesson.

Redkite200

POBox19 wrote: »

The roads are full of idiots like that. Pity he didn't have a dashcam to bring to the guards.

This. I was driving in the city yesterday, 2 lane carriageway which has a a 60 Kph limit. I was in lane 2 as at the end you can use it to turn right and the left lane is for going straight on or turning left only. Out of nowhere a young lad (I'd guess 18-25 from what I could see of him) in a black Golf is basically on my rear bumper flashing lights at me in a 'get out of my way' sort of attempt. I was driving at the speed limit maybe a little over it and it's a short stretch of road so I let him keep on with his act, was either that or brake hard and see his reaction but I didn't fancy getting rear ended on my way home and brake testing isn't a very good idea in any situation. What does he do then? Turns left to go into an adjacent slip road off to the left. So after all his bravado he actually needed to be in Lane 1 to take the slip road off to the left and there was no need for him to be behind me. The road was busy so even if I had become invisible and he sped up when he wanted to he'd have needed to change lanes and turn off anyway, there was nothing to be gained from it. I just shook my head at him. I mean wtf like?

Absolute f*cking gob****es out there. :rolleyes:

whiterebel

The RSA had adverts a few years ago. You should move out to allow cars on from a slip road when it is safe to do so. Probably too sensible for some of the neanderthals on the road.

CoBo55

whiterebel wrote: »

The RSA had adverts a few years ago. You should move out to allow cars on from a slip road when it is safe to do so. Probably too sensible for some of the neanderthals on the road.

Exactly.

Samuel T. Cogley

whiterebel wrote: »

The RSA had adverts a few years ago. You should move out to allow cars on from a slip road when it is safe to do so. Probably too sensible for some of the neanderthals on the road.

Again all well in theory but the OP was pottering along at 100 on the motorway. If he pulls out he's impeding traffic looking to overtake even if the lane is relatively clear when he starts the maneuver. My wife does this, and is also of the pottering persuasion, she occasionally ends up with the joining car not allowing her back in or undertaking her.

It's really not that difficult to merge by adjusting speed on the slip road.

I agree it's nice to move out, but it shouldn't be expected and isn't always appropriate to do so, especially for slower drivers who it's even easier to avoid.

Spook_ie

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The number of motorists who think it's illegal to cycle two abreast. It's perfectly legal and advisable. There's even an RSA advert campaign advising motorists of this but on every club ride there's always a few dickhead motorists who feel the need to display their ignorance of the road traffic regulations.

There is the caveat though when cyclists are overtaking cyclists

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058180350

In particular this post with thanks to GM228
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116976437&postcount=14

Spook_ie

Weepsie wrote: »

What I find astonishing is he number of motorists who quote the rules of the road (rightly and wrongly) as if they're some sort of sacredly enshrined passages, and when you point out to them that the RTA actually says x and y they get all uppity

I notice that among lots of road users, cyclists, pedestrians and motorised vehicles

Fast2move

[quote="kirving;117398779"
I 100% disagree with this statement. Things happen way too fast on a motorway to be trying to instill behaviours in a population. At 100km/h with a slip road ending, the here and now is the only thing that matters. Don't create a dangerous situation in order to teach a lesson.[/quote]

Well then you’re contradicting yourself because previously you stated about how your behaviour can affect other peoples driving.

I cannot explain my comprehensive opinion of the subject in one small message and I would never advocate aggression or obstinance on the road. But all too often when people see a car on the sliproad they immediately change lanes. These unnecessary manoeuvers increase the risk of accidents. I am of the understanding that if I move to another lane to accommodate a poorly driven vehicle on the sliproad merging then I’m doing it in avoidance and not out of courtesy

It is only by repeatedly enforcing correct driving behaviour and etiquette will people actually change their driving habits. But I have long given up expecting that to ever happen in Ireland

aFlabbyPanda

tphase wrote: »

FYP

not picking a fight but if can use the 2nd/3rd lane to allow traffic to merge into the 1st lane, why wouldn't you move over?.

To me the wording implies that I should stay left (1st/2nd lane depending on if its a 2 or 3 lane motorway) unless overtaking or to allow taffic to merge onto the motorway.

mgbgt1978

CoBo55 wrote: »

Charming. Just out of curiosity, why would anyone merging into the motorway need to indicate? You know what they're trying to do, just let them merge or if it bothers you that much accelerate past them and let them merge in behind you. Drivers like you are exactly the reason I move to the outer lane at junctions.

Probably because they are moving from one lane to another, and for some reason the Rules of the Road state that you should "mirror, indicate, manoeuvre " when changing lane.

The J Stands for Jay

aFlabbyPanda wrote: »

According to https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf you should move into the next lane to allow for traffic merging onto to the motorway.

* Lane 1 – You should always use this lane for normal driving. Stay in this lane unless
you are overtaking.

• Lane 2 – On a two lane motorway, you should only use this lane for overtaking. You
must move back to lane 1 once you have finished overtaking and it is safe to do so.
You can also move into lane 2 to allow vehicles coming from your left to join the
motorway. On a 3 lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is
slower moving traffic in lane 1.

• Lane 3 – You should only use this lane if traffic in lanes 1 and 2 is moving in queues
and you need to overtake or make room for merging traffic. You should move back
to lane 1 as soon as it is safe to do so.

Wrong. It's up to the merging vehicle to adjust their speed to merge safely. OP should not have slowed.

The J Stands for Jay

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The number of motorists who think it's illegal to cycle two abreast. It's perfectly legal and advisable. There's even an RSA advert campaign advising motorists of this but on every club ride there's always a few dickhead motorists who feel the need to display their ignorance of the road traffic regulations.

And these idiot drivers don't realise that it's easier to pass cyclists if they're 2 abreast

aFlabbyPanda

McGaggs wrote: »

Wrong. It's up to the merging vehicle to adjust their speed to merge safely. OP should not have slowed.

what part is wrong in the pdf? :rolleyes:

Government buildings

Do you have to indicate when pulling back in after overtaking on a motorway? I seem to remember that it was not necessary.

stopthevoting

aFlabbyPanda wrote: »

what part is wrong in the pdf? :rolleyes:

Did you see posts numbers 6 and 17 ?

grogi

CoBo55 wrote: »

Charming. Just out of curiosity, why would anyone merging into the motorway need to indicate? You know what they're trying to do, just let them merge or if it bothers you that much accelerate past them and let them merge in behind you. Drivers like you are exactly the reason I move to the outer lane at junctions.

They are changing the lane. Their lane finishes and they want to get onto a lane that's on the main line.

grogi

Government buildings wrote: »

Do you have to indicate when pulling back in after overtaking on a motorway? I seem to remember that it was not necessary.

Every time you change a lane you should indicate.

odyssey06

grogi wrote: »

They are changing the lane. Their lane finishes and they want to get onto a lane that's on the main line.

Right so why do they need to indicate if you can see their lane ends... they arent changing lane. Their lane is merging in.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

The biggest issue is a lot of Irish drivers don't have a clue how to merge.

You see them looking flustered as they come up to a junction and then merging way too slowly and even stopping hard on it the slipway.

grogi

odyssey06 wrote: »

Right so why do they need to indicate if you can see their lane ends...

That's getting dangerously close to 'I don't indicate, because I always turn here.'.

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The number of motorists who think it's illegal to cycle two abreast. It's perfectly legal and advisable. There's even an RSA advert campaign advising motorists of this but on every club ride there's always a few dickhead motorists who feel the need to display their ignorance of the road traffic regulations.

Why bring this up in this thread? Motorways have nothing to do with cyclists.

The J Stands for Jay

aFlabbyPanda wrote: »

what part is wrong in the pdf? :rolleyes:

It has no legal standing and does not imply that the merger has any right of way.

Samuel T. Cogley

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

The biggest issue is a lot of Irish drivers don't have a clue how to merge.

You see them looking flustered as they come up to a junction and then merging way too slowly and even stopping hard on it the slipway.

They should do a few weeks in Italy and a likes where you get about 6 feet of a slip way to merge.

odyssey06

grogi wrote: »

That's getting dangerously close to 'I don't indicate, because I always turn here.'.

You can see their lane is ending, merging into this one.
It's a standard feature of motorway merging - "I always turn here" has to do with it is anyone's guess. How you could think the situations similar is beyond me.
You can't see that the lane is going to end?

What do you think they are going to do?
Do you imagine the car is going to turn into a plane and take flight?

grogi

odyssey06 wrote: »

You can see their lane is ending, merging into this one.
It's a standard feature of motorway merging what "I always turn here" has to do with it is neither here nor there.
You can't see that the lane is going to end?

What do you think they are going to do?
Do you imagine the car is going to turn into a plane and take flight?

You cannot be serious .

Why should it be my responsibility to guess what the other party will do when they have legal obligation and tools to communicate that? There is no grey area here: indicate.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

You can see their lane is ending, merging into this one.
It's a standard feature of motorway merging - "I always turn here" has to do with it is anyone's guess. How you could think the situations similar is beyond me.
You can't see that the lane is going to end?

What do you think they are going to do?
Do you imagine the car is going to turn into a plane and take flight?

The person merging should have slowed down or sped up before that point regardless. Their responsibility.