Hurling- what’s gone wrong and where do we go from here.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491109#Comment_120491109

If one of those counties won the All Ireland instead the problems might be the same but it's worth asking if they would have been raised on a discrete thread. Chances are we'd be celebrating "Cody's greatest achievement", "Henry's sprinkling of stardust", or "Lohan showing that fcuker Davy". Doubt very much this discussion would be happening in its current form at least. Look at the turgid muck of the mid 1990s and we constantly read how great it was just because different teams won.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491297#Comment_120491297

"The thread was not set up to debate if hurling has problems. It told us straight out that hurling has a problem that definitely needs fixing" - Over 600 posts in and you are still struggling with how the OP was written? In any case, it's not unusual for the starting point of a debate to be an authoritative statement and that doesn't usually stop people debating it 

"I think rules need enforcing better but a lot of this thread isn't about addressing problems it's about making hurling look like it did when lads were young because they don't like new tactics." - most posters do not seem to expect or want a return to hurling of yester year; ground hurling being a lost art has inevitably mentioned in a thread about how hurling has changed over the years but there have only been a couple of posts in the entire thread where people suggested it should be used more or rules changed to bring it back. In fact the hurling of the 70s/80s/90s seems to be brought up more by those who have a problem with the premise of the thread than anyone else. Anyway aren't people entitled to not be enamoured by how these new tactics have changed how the game is played when the tactics are facilitated by the rule breaking you mention?

"Calling dodgy hand passing a Limerick problem is just bitterness" - A lot of posters have been at pains to point out it is not unique to Limerick to try to curtail Limerick posters dipping into the thread and claiming an anti-Limerick bias to the posting. Last year I would have thought Cork were worse for throwing and this year it is clear that all teams are now throwing the ball a lot, why wouldn't they when the rules are not being enforced?

Looking at just the first couple of pages these are most of the issues raised by posters 

• Long range shooting/ball composition/weight
• Uncontested shooting
• "Overuse" of the handpass
• Illegal handpassing
• Too easy to score/lost arts of defending
• Sporadic nature of the game/decrease in time that ball is in play
• Rucks
• Spare hand
• Steps
• Charging
• Hyperbole over mediocre games/lack of criticism
• Lack of regulation on bas dimensions

It would be great if posters like you could keep these in my mind when trying to claim that this thread is simply full of posters who want ground hurling and hate Limerick 

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491853#Comment_120491853

A few of the Limerick posters (not all) seem to think they own hurling because all references to hurling and it's rules is always directed towards Limerick. 😒

It's a very simplistic attitude that seems to believe that any change will endanger Limerick and they're are the guardians of their team. Hahaha Or any criticism of the game as a spectacle is a criticism of Limerick... 😂

The hurler on the ditch has stated that any rule changes won't make a difference to Limerick's dominance. That's any sensible GAA person's attitude. The best team is the best team. There's more to hurling than rules. There's this thing called the players and management. The rules are the same for everyone. Every team/players performs within rules.

Apparently people are incapable of assessing the rules and the spectacle of the game and it's all tied to one team...

😂

The ignore button is a great job!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491853#Comment_120491853

I don't reply to every single post on here because I don't have a problem with what's said or have nothing to add.

I reply mostly to the ones I think are talking shte.

On your points well I think there is no such thing as "overuse" of the hand pass. I much prefer looking at intelligent play over smacking it long. I love watching teams play through the lines.

"Lost art of defending" seems odd when I'm watching 1 of the 2 greatest back 6 I think the game has ever seen.

We should have a strict bas size and ball. Again I never had anything to add there.

Having a problem with media hyperbole is only a problem if you think the current game is mediocre which I don't.

I think rucks are nothing new and neither are charging or steps but they are painted often as a "new" problem.

To sum up I don't think the game has any more or less problems than it ever had so I will challenge any talk of some sort of decline as rose tinted shte which is what I believe it to be.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491979#Comment_120491979

Your posts seem to indicate a fondness of ‘smelling yourself’ if I may say so.

I feel anybody who doesn’t see that there are problems in hurling is not really in touch.

Personally I see games with scores like 1-29 to 26 pts to be a borefest of epic proportions.

There are a lot of those type of games recently and don’t bore us with stats.

Fair play to Limerick if they keep winning Championships, have no problem with that.

One might say that the so called ‘possession game ‘ is now all the rage, but it’s as boring as hell

and that’s what we are discussing here.

Not Limerick, not Kilkenny, just the game itself as it seems obvious from the engagement here that

there is a genuine issue that needs discussion about the attractiveness of the game in its full compass.

rjoe90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492053#Comment_120492053

What issues are in hurling at the minute?

puzl

The rules need to reflect the game that's played. If we want a game to flow and not have "niggly frees" and "stop-starty matches" then change the rules to reflect what we want.

As it stands right now the rules seem to change on any given day. Handpass, tackle, black card....whatever, it doesn't matter really.

For example, If the rule the handpass to be a "clear striking action" but we only blow for the really obvious ones to let the game flow....then maybe the rule should change to require "any open palmed strike" and now we get a flowing game and a better chance for consistency.

The status quo right now is a bunch of rules that are very difficult to implement and get ignored when the knockout games come around.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492161#Comment_120492161

1. Lot of games not attractive to watch
2. Way too easy to score points…usually by specialised free takers.
3. Lack of goals and goal attempts
4. Lack of player on player contests
5. Charging with the ball in hand
6. Lack of enforcement of number of steps taken
7. Way too many ‘rucks’ with 7 or 8 players poking at the ball to attempt to get ball in hand
8. Too much emphasis on ‘possession of the ball’ by teams
9. Field perhaps too crowded for the ‘modern game’
10. Size of the hurleys currently used and adherence to official measurements.

Theres a few to be going along with……

rjoe90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492313#Comment_120492313

1. That is your opinion, I find the standard and the way each team tries to play makes for a far better spectacle.
2. Modern day players are now more skilful, however it is the same for each team.
3. I don’t have the stats off hand but I am sure the number of goals scored last year hasn’t been reduced significantly.
4. Not sure what you mean here.
5. Disagree with this.
6. Agree, think the refs are far too inconsistent on calling steps.
7. This has always been the case.
8. Not sure this is a bad thing?
9. So you would make the pitch bigger? Can’t say I’ve ever heard this complaint before.
10. How on earth is the size of the Hurley an issue in the current game?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492053#Comment_120492053

This thread in a nutshell.

Anyone not in the circle jerk is clueless.

No debate about if there are problems only patting each other on the back about how right ye all are.

High scoring being boring is not the "fact" you think it is.

The possession game being more boring than long hail Mary stuff is not the "fact" you think it is.

Nevin Parsnipp

Excellent and well reasoned post...has nobody mentioned the number of players on the team I would support 13 aside given the increase in fitness and equipment ...also restrict scoring from outside the 50 meter lines.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492243#Comment_120492243

Too much pressure on refs to "let the game flow". If we want rules implemented correctly people will have to put up with a bit of not flowing games til the players cop on.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492374#Comment_120492374

Restricting scores from outside 50 will probably just lead to a blanket defense on the 50.

Another good thing about 13 players is it makes fielding a team a tiny bit easier which is becoming a problem in some places

rjoe90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492391#Comment_120492391

Let them enter 13 a side competitions then. Wouldn’t change the 15 aside personally If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492361#Comment_120492361

Your posts seem to indicate, to use boxing parlance, you would prefer to see 10 rounds of tipping around the ring

ducking and diving, nipping in, dancing scoring points and your opponent doing the same…..

I would contend that the vast majority of us would not fancy a solid diet of that.

I would contend that the more attractive spectacle would be if both boxers went full in all guns blazing.

Would make for a better spectacle I would contend.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492503#Comment_120492503

What teams are not going in all guns blazing ?

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492537#Comment_120492537

Not interested in discussing teams, hombre, let’s stick to the topic, the game of hurling…..m’kay?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492603#Comment_120492603

Well you claim teams are not going all guns blazing.

That's not what I saw in the championship last year.

Maybe don't say stuff you can't back up m'kay.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492615#Comment_120492615

Teams, dude …… what are we talking about ‘tag teams’, last I heard boxing was an individual sport….m’kay?

Maybe not put your foot in it, sahib.

rjoe90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492615#Comment_120492615

Agreed

Just because Limerick are ahead of the others, it doesn’t mean other teams aren’t going all guns blazing.

rjoe90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492503#Comment_120492503

Let me guess you are from Tipp or Cork and can’t handle this period of Limerick dominance. Must be tough to watch the best team of all time to be from a county you perceive as weaker.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492773#Comment_120492773

Both wrong my friend.

You don’t seem to know how to discuss stuff without:-

A bringing Limerick into it

B putting words into peoples mouths

C not reading or understanding other peoples posts properly.

Now don’t come back and request I point out “Where am I doing this” because I won’t.

Its there in black and white.

rjoe90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492783#Comment_120492783

There seems to be a lot of begrudgers now that Limerick are dominating all of a sudden. Never heard this talk of hurling being in a desperate state until recently. Wonder why.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492805#Comment_120492805

You must be new to hurling.

rjoe90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492846#Comment_120492846

Incorrect.

Davys Fits

www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41119357.html

Interesting to see what happens this weekend re the handpass. At least there seems to be acknowledgment now from the GAA that theres a problem.

Corcaigh84

Back to my 'flaking' comment - I'm sure anyone who went for a 50/50 ball that played the game knows what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about intentional harm, Rucks of the modern era have not been happening forever, if you go back to 90/00s even as recent as that, there would be balls pulled/whipped on when the ball was on the ground. My point being that because there is zero threat these days of any 'clash of the ash', players are comfortable in milling around the ball rugby style.

Players are fitter yes, but there is no way the official match balls of even the 90's are the same weight / travel as far as the plastic core balls that are used today. When the points average increases dramatically, mathematically goals mean less in games as they are countered so quickly by points. Goals being of less importance reduces some of the game's excitement in my opinion, and I think that's a negative for hurling in the long run.

WesternZulu

I'd agree with all the posters saying it's too easy to amass big scores.

For all the talk of hurling being more skillful it's far more difficult to score a point in football. Evidently, the most important aspect of the sport, scoring, isn't skillful. It's piss easy!

In no field sport should the scoring zone be half the size of the playing area.

When top teams are putting 30 points on the score board against one another it becomes farcical.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497285#Comment_120497285

Agree mostly but would say scoring is too easy rather than not skillful.

Otherwise you are bang on.

slegs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492313#Comment_120492313

4 or 5 points for a goal would change the nature of the game dramatically and solve many of the perceived issues above