Hurling- what’s gone wrong and where do we go from here.

lim4ev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470339#Comment_120470339

I'll tell you how it's clear its absolutely awful to watch a lot of it, I'm a limerick man to the bone watching us since 1980 and so proud of our current bunch but if you can't see despite your infatuation with attendances that the spectacle has decreased ..... well I can't help you

lim4ev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471103#Comment_120471103

what in the name of God is this supposed to mean?? what are you suggesting??

Denny61

They should forget about the league..it has lost its value .all it is now is a training exercise and finding new players...there should be only one competition now ..and played On a champions league format..let's say 20 teams of 5 in each group..each play each other twice..plus a reward system like rugby.. win equal to 3 points..score more than 5 goals..a bonus point..keep within 7 points of the winning team. You get a losing bonus point... .it can be started in February..take a break in May resume in June and end September....at the moment. Real hurling competition is been condensed in to such a short period of time..we no sooner getting ready to enjoy it .suddenly its down to 4 counties..most people I've talked to say they can see it on its death knell and no appetite any more for it ...

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Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120479829#Comment_120479829

This is an extraordinary recommendation. A 20 team competition would (based on the final standings in the League) see potentially Wicklow playing Limerick home and away.

Throw in bonus points for goals and winning margins and it's a system designed to humiliate teams and ensure empty stadiums in a competition which despite all the anyone-could-beat-anyone-else "on a given day" nonsense has a fairly obvious top 4/6.

What a disastrous format you have suggested. Some people including media and players seem to think that a "Champions League format" solves all the huge inequalities between teams. And trying to force rugby style bonus points onto the competition to incentivise one of the top 6 teams to obliterate maybe London or Sligo by even more would really solve a lot of problems. And you are concerned about the public's "appetite" for the sport. This is a system designed to destroy all interest.

There's also a false narrative getting an awful lot of air that getting rid of the National League or worst case at least trying to make sure there's no semi finals or final achieves something. The alternative would be a few months of challenge matches. The League is doing little harm. With no inter-county hurling beyond July as it is I'm not sure how reducing further the number of games so that there's nothing before the end of April achieves much. Again, a strange inclusion in a post which raises the issue of how reduced the hurling season has become. The solution is hardly to reduce it further?

But the idea that in hurling where team number one can beat team number two by 11 points in the League Final should have a single championship competition with 20 teams is the highlight.

People in the GAA invest way too much time watching soccer and rugby. The recurring phrase "Champions League format", and "play each other twice" in any such discussions is a big giveaway. Any suggestions on a championship format needs to recognise the small number of competitive teams at the top end. And for a variety of reasons hurling desperately needs the National League to work and be given breathing space instead of being abolished. Just because something sounds radical doesn't make it a good idea.

Field east

I find most of the hand passes in hurling to be very, very questionable. Is’nt it incredible that RTE is in a unique position to prove me wrong or otherwise yet it chooses to 99.999999999999999 % ignores it. I wonder why ? . IMO I think that it has been ‘got at’ by the GAA hierarchy because it would show up the referees that turn a ‘blind eye’ to it.

What, it think, is happening is that most teams -the ones that want to win at all costs- will test the ref to breaking point and if the ref has two very ‘ bad ‘blind eyes’ the players will just throw all balls at will especially if it is a kind of out of sight of the ref. The rule is a JOKE.

lim4ev

as a spectacle the game has definitely gone down, there's no doubt the skill levels are as high as they've ever been but the excitement of the 50 50 ball in particular has been reduced because the players are so skilful.

for me the score a minute gets tedious I'm not criticising these wonderful players but you shouldn't be able to put the ball over the bar from outside the d as diarmuid byrnes did in all Ireland final last year, make the ball heavier and reduce the bas size of the hurley it won't cure all ills but surely would help?

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120479682#Comment_120479682

But throwing the ball is the problem... what you're suggesting would help the referee but would actually make the game worse.

If you could throw the ball underhand as hard as you like with accuracy, why would you stick pass at all?.. It would become a game of basketball.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120480158#Comment_120480158

If refs are going to enforce it 100 percent of the time whats the point having the rule? The foul handpass is easy to see and penalise. Yet the top refs dont enforce it.

evolvingtipperary101

The game would become so fast if you could throw it underhanded that a ref would have no chance of keeping up with the game. You'd have lads throwing the ball fifty yards underhanded.

The handpass is a real skill when done properly. And it should be kept but it must be reffed. But players are so fit it's hard for refs to keep up and spot these transgressions.

Investment in refs and refereeing is a disaster at the moment - every other side of the game has gone way ahead.

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120480626#Comment_120480626

Agreed.... 👍

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120480535#Comment_120480535

That's it though, the problem is its not being reffed properly. Throwing the ball is hurting the game badly, allowing it would only make things worse.

Davys Fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120479682#Comment_120479682

Might as well get rid of the hurls altogether in that case..Mad suggestion

joebloggs32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120479943#Comment_120479943

I got a text from a friend of mine who has refereed All Ireland hurling finals after attending one of the league games. In his opinion that day about 90% of the handpasses were illegal.

The argument that if referees started blowing for them a match would be ruined with too many frees holds little water. The players would quickly adapt.

Likewise the argument that referees are afraid of being shown up blowing for a legitimate handpass is also a fallacy. They are letting anything go, often leading to scores, and the pundits ignore it the dodgy handpass.

I'm coming around to the idea that a handpass wiil either have to be off the hurl.or from opposite hands.

raindodger

think the biggest problem and ugliest thing in hurling are the rucks to use rugby speak they are like a rolling maul and usually finish with adodgy handpass or a free.

old school here if you could see the ball you could pull on it and if some one wanted to put his foot on it that was his problem. ruck solved

Field east

If all hand passes were pulled up and especially if scores came from them, the players would not long be copping on to the outcome and stop doing it. What would also help putting a stop to the illegal hand pass would be if the following rule was brought in:-

a free resulting from an illegal hand pass And that is a score over the crossbar - the score is awarded as TWO POINTS and if under the bar FOUR POINTS to be awarded.

In addition to the above, if the illegal hand pass occurs in the culprits half of the field , an equivalent line ball - ie off the ground- is given and where the ball makes initial intact with the ground a free is given and then above potentially applies if there is a score

the above then gives the offending team a significant incentive to stop illegally hand passing. The ref then has to play his part and really implement the rule.

there would be much less of it anyway under current rules if the ref blew up all such passes seen. There is no difference , in principal between an illegal hand pass and a player chopping down on another players Hurley or a trip. They are ALL FOULS - it’s just that the refs choose not to blow up for most illegal hand passes

Eoinbmw

Some suggestions are absolutely moronic altogether!

Just ref the game strictly and this overblown handpass controversy will fade away!

Re writing the GAA rulebook would be a terrible idea!

The 2 man tackle and parrticularly the free arm tackle need to be refined and refereed better this would lead to less need to handpass!

When players are being held up by 2 players and with their free arms they should penalise the tackler not the player in possession!

randd1

That’s not a bad idea, but when the man in possession decides that he’s going to bust through an opponent, then what do you do?

I think anyone putting the head down or taking the ball into contact should be immediately done for charging, because they’re showing no intention of playing the ball within the legal number of steps.

Alongside that, you pass a rule that says you can’t use your spare arm, with the exception of the shoulder, to tackle an opponent.

It would mean you’d have one lad who would have to to play the ball properly not allowing him to barge/take steps but could only be tackled without being wrapped up, and the tackler could only intercede by using a hook/block/flick or a shoulder, but would be able to as the opponent wouldn’t be barging and would be trying to play the ball.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483495#Comment_120483495

the trouble with the illegal / limerick style hand pass is that they are extremely difficult to spot in real time by the ref….very easy for the arm chair experts amongst us with the aid of slow mo replays etc but when the game is at full pace and ref is behind play or unsighted then it’s extremely difficult for them to make the right call consistently…..only other option is to introduce a VAR type set up like the Saw-ker and da rub-bee…!

shocs07

Silly comment

windy shepard henderson

hand pass off the hurl only is the way to go ..

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485995#Comment_120485995

I take it you are referring to comment above…care to elaborate a bit..?

Corcaigh84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483400#Comment_120483400

I don't think it's the biggest problem, it's behind throwball in my opinion. Have the rules actually changed on this? Is it deemed dangerous play to pull on the ball on the ground now? I'm in agreement with you by the way.

Going to the latest Cork minor and U-20 matches down the Pairc and seeing the odd ruck happen I thought to myself have any of these lads been on the end of a flaking before? Because by looking at them fool around with their legs trying to flick the ball away to make space to rise it, it's clear they are in no fear of being pulled on, because why would they be?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120487341#Comment_120487341

"Pulling on it" is neanderthal stuff. Ya it gets the ball out of the ruck but to where exactly. You have as much hope of giving the ball away so what's the point.

I hope Cork take your advice. It'll only prolong your wait for another All Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486134#Comment_120486134

As long as it comes with a huge crackdown on fouling of the hurley arm which also happens all the time. Probably easier spot than the hand pass* at least.

*The Limerick style pass 🤣 even though this definitely isn't a thread about Limericks dominance 🤣

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490635#Comment_120490635

I think we'll never see a return of widespread ground hurling, at least without rule changes to facilitate it nor have I stated that I would like to see a return of it, but you do realise that you can direct the ball when striking it on the ground, you can get your head up before pulling on it? Yeah you have the added variable of the ground and the ball being less likely to go to hand but it's not completely in the lap of the Gods where the ball goes when you hit it on the ground? It'll never be preferable to a stick pass assuming that both are on at the time, but I wouldn't agree with smugly dismissing it as "neanderthal stuff".

You seem uncomfortable with this thread and the idea that some people don't think hurling is at is absolute pinnacle at same the time that your own team are enjoying success, you keep focussing on a small subset of the points being made, ground hurling, attendances, examples of Limerick's play, and trying to use them as means to dismiss the overall theme of the thread. Yet we are over 600 posts in, a number of which ironically are from you where you do acknowledge there are problems with the game that need to be addressed, it is clear that it is a topic that is worth discussing and it is not about any one team despite your claims to the contrary

Sunny Disposition

I never really liked ground hurling to be honest, always seemed to be praised too much, there were few people who were really good at it.

But there is no role for it now, because possession is so important, territory isn't really important at all because the scoring area is massive. And the game we now have is much poorer than what we once had.

I don't think this is an anti-Limerick thread at all. Kilkenny, Galway and Clare were all very close to Limerick last year, and if any one of those had won the All Ireland all the same problems would be in the game.

evolvingtipperary101

...

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120485309#Comment_120485309

Just insist that both hands are on the hurl for a tackle then penalise any charging

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490897#Comment_120490897

The poster in question was not talking about striking the ball on the ground he was talking about swinging wild into players "have any of these lads been on the end of a flaking before"

We all know what he meant was the days when shure if you didn't get the ball you got a hand or a leg so win win.

The thread was not set up to debate if hurling has problems. It told us straight out that hurling has a problem that definitely needs fixing.

I think rules need enforcing better but a lot of this thread isn't about addressing problems it's about making hurling look like it did when lads were young because they don't like new tactics.

Lack of ground hurling is not "a problem in the game". Calling dodgy hand passing a Limerick problem is just bitterness.

Like when Windy said something intelligent I responded in kind.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491235#Comment_120491235

So many times in a match I see fans shocked their wrapped up forward didn't get a free when in fact he ran into the defender. It's the hurling version of diving when you think about it.

thinkabouit

Lol the game & players have become so good that it’s become the problem 😂