Hurling- what’s gone wrong and where do we go from here.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548735#Comment_120548735

LeHane inconsistent, not saying otherwise. If you can read, was the spark that jumped Cork into action v Tipp v 2017. Sometimes that's the spark that matters.

That was an individual performance that dragged Cork from the wilderness, never said he built on it. But he was that spark that kicked Cork into action again with a mammoth performance that day.

Read before you jump the gun

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548809#Comment_120548809

You said lehane dragged them up several levels, i can read fine, you keep living in your dreamland of a non contact version of hurling that cork will dominate. Deluded beyond belief. The "corkness" is strong in you.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548637#Comment_120548637

It’s about the game buddy, not teams, you are ruining the thread with your rubbish.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548679#Comment_120548679

Since 2010 Tipp have won 3 Senior All Irelands, 3 Minor All Irelands, and 3 Under 20/21 All Irelands. All things considered it is arguably the best, most solid record, across the board of any county in that time. Delusional to be promoting Cork while dismissing this.

What you are saying is like arguing that Galway is the best football county since they also have not won an All Ireland Senior since the early 2000s and have just a few underage titles since. Not sure why you keep this up every May/June when it's the same end result every year.

shocs07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548278#Comment_120548278

We've been waiting since 2007 I think

Grats

God, even Cork GAA have moved on after been stuck in the past for too long and are getting there, gradually. They had analysts such as O'Grady and Cusack spouting off since 2006 about the dark arts, spare hand, etc. They couldn't accept been knocked off their pedestal. Can't help noticing in recent times how they don't mention the spare hand, throwing the ball, overcarrying, etc since their own players are as guilty as any other county.

hurlaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548358#Comment_120548358

If you love throwball back Cork,

Mad about baa baas

I know its a long time ago but if I remember correctly the last successful cork team had plenty of agricultural, very physical hurlers..mixed with some nice stylish hurlers.....I'd also think every team that won an all Ireland since had players that were more skillful natural than cork had in the same period ..mixed with work ethic and no fear of contact

.

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549421#Comment_120549421

But they won't complain, because the running/possession game they advocated for in the mid 90's with it's steps, oversized hurls, athletes above hurlers is now the most prevalent style.

They ignore completely that it was their hurling skill that won them the AI's, and when those brilliantly skilful hurlers like Joe Deane, Ronan Curran, Wayne Sherlock, Ben O'Connor and Sean Og and a few others retired or faded, it was then they fell apart. They still had the athletes, but not the hurlers, and certainly no players that could hurl under the pressure in a way that the likes of Joe Canning, Eoin Kelly, Lar Corbett, Richie Power or Henry Shellin could.

Interestingly enough on the last few pages, the Cork slide may be going on longer than we thought. For all their all-Irelands, since the start of their first famine in the 50's (beginning in 1955), Cork have won only 11 titles in 69 years. Hardly the stat to back up the claim of being a dominant team in a sport, particularly when you consider the population and club advantage they have over every other major hurling county. They top only one roll of honour (U20) to boot, and that's by 1.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549549#Comment_120549549

I don't really want the thread to be about denigrating teams or counties, but you make a somewhat interesting point. Years ago there were various types of good hurlers, now there are far fewer. Back circa 04 and 05 Cork had the likes of Ben O'Connor and Joe Deane who were out and out ball players. But they also had a tough man like the Rock who could win 50-50s, Niall McCarthy who was high energy and very physical and Timmy McCarthy who was a great trier who could sometimes come up with important scores. The way the game is gone there's fewer attributes valued now, it's a pity.

Mad about baa baas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549975#Comment_120549975

Those were the names I had in my head..then sean og had it all..tough as nails but an excellent hurler..

I think teams still need variety..15 workhorses won't win an all Ireland..neither will 15 silky skilled speed merchants

.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549852#Comment_120549852

I'm never a great fan of statistical trawls as they can be polished to make whatever points you want (like why stop at 1955 if not to make a particular point?) but to be fair to Cork 11 All Irelands in 69 years is actually good going. Especially if you factor in a few relative long periods without a win.

In the last 69 seasons of the 20th century Kilkenny won 13, Tipperary 12 so Cork's is okay. The Kilkenny achievement of 2000-15 was extraordinary and I believe will, in time, prove an absolute outlier, but once you remove that from consideration 11 in 69 years is as "dominant" as a team could reasonably expect to get.

Cork are in the doldrums to the point that few under 25 would have a very clear memory of them winning an All Ireland. I think given their self-image and all this "Corkness" nonsense, that's damning enough without building a historical case (which is accurate but maybe pushes a particular context onto the figures). Like which represents Kilkenny best: 11 All Irelands in 23 years or 0 in 8? Or Limerick: 4 in 5 years or 5 in 63?

slegs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548278#Comment_120548278

The annual "Cork are back" post

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550206#Comment_120550206

A good point.

That being said, Kilkenny and Tipperary have achieved more with a fraction of Cork's resources, Kilkenny in particular. It may be a case of them over-achieving, but it does call into question the notion that Cork were the fore-most hurling county.

Brendan Bendar

What has all this bolloxology to do with the actual game of hurling?

Lionel Fusco

The biggest problem with hurling is the throw the vast majority of handpasses are throws it has to be clamped down on unmercifully.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550638#Comment_120550638

That is a good point.

For me the biggest problem is the fact that scores can be got from 30 metres inside your own half hence these 1-27 to 29 point games.

The intensity has gone out of the game, it’s nearly a contest of free takers now

Needs to be addressed……..urgently in my opinion.

Corcaigh84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549421#Comment_120549421

Compare the amount of blatant throws Lim/Clare vs Cork/Wford and come back to me. I clearly remember roaring at the ref to spot the clear hurley holding on Lehane in the first half last Sunday - that's a 'dark art' we need to improve on I suppose!

Ref called us harshly in the first minute of the game for overcarrying, but Wford attackers clearly took 7/8 steps on a few occasions but those will never be called as shur gawd love them they're 10 points down.

It will be interesting to see how Sat night goes, will the ref do his job or will the 'let it flow' merchants be happy. I hope Dalton gets to flex his long range free taking muscles all night. We'll need a couple of goals though! Looking forward to a packed house.

Lionel Fusco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550669#Comment_120550669

It is very hard to stop the long distance score though can't stop fellas from getting bigger and stronger. Maybe a standardised smaller bás of the hurl could help not like the shovels they have now?. The throw must be eradicated though if there is no clear distance from the hand then a free must be awarded every single time.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550741#Comment_120550741

Agreed Lionel, but I can see them boarding up the goal space under the bar if something isn’t done.

No point in it if it’s not being used, and as far as I am concerned, that would slowly kill hurling as a watchable sport.

Boom__Boom

GAA Stats

@GAA_Stats

The goalscoring rate, so far, in this year's senior hurling championship (2.36 gpg) is the lowest since the 1891 championship (2.20 gpg).

Lionel Fusco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552913#Comment_120552913

It is especially alarming considering 1 game (Clare v Tipp) had 8 goals in it shows how few were actually scored in the other games.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553260#Comment_120553260

Another buzz tweet without much context given behind it. Not sure if he's referring to just Munster and Leinster or what, but stats like this need the season to be played out for full context

For what it's worth, I think Goals Scored per Team per game is more effective than Goals per Game as a stat. For Munster, if you're looking at Goals per Game it's 3.00, but the Goals per Team per Game is 1.50

That 1.50 equals exactly the Goals per Team per Game in the 2022 Munster Hurling Championship

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553864#Comment_120553864

Buddy, get real, most hurling games now have more than 25 points scored per team.

When players can score points from well inside their own half why bother with goals.

This has been the case for several seasons, don’t try to queer the pitch please.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555642#Comment_120555642

?? What the Jaysis

The tweet was about goals scored. Goals. Not points. Goals. Literally nothing to do with points.

Buddy

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555720#Comment_120555720

Sorry Cee, got a bit ‘barrel locked’ on that one.

Apologies.

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553864#Comment_120553864

That is some freakish coincidence that the number of goals scored per game for the 2 teams is twice the number of goals per game per team

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556459#Comment_120556459

It’s just a nicer metric to look at rather than total goals per game

Point still stands that munster (so far) equals the exact number from the full campaign from 2022

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553864#Comment_120553864

Comparisons with 2022 don't exactly counter the point being made. You'd expect two championships in consecutive to be broadly similar statistically and two years together are hardly indicative of longer-term trends. For those who realise and accept that goals have declined, it has been clear and obvious for quite some time and not just in 2023.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558816#Comment_120558816

But since it's a round-robin formar with more matches overall, that's the right way to compare isn't it surely? Rather than a 4 match Munster Championship. Simiar to why things like the Premier League generally refer to stats with the 38 match season (or explicitly note if they're comparing to the 42 match season for example)

I don't mean to be picking at the guy's tweet and coming across miserable too much, but for Munster Championship with Round Robins: 2.73 GPG 2018, 2.45 GPG 2019, 3.00 GPG 2022, 3.00 so far in 2023 (but 7 matches still to be played)

If we wanted to compare non Round-Robin Munster Championship years, 2010 was 2.4 GPG, 2008 was 2.75 GPG, 2000 was 2.20 GPG, 1997 was 2.00 GPG

Funnily enough, there's still lows and highs there too of course - So the notation that goals are drying up isn't really factual in a Munster Championship sense