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Hurling- what’s gone wrong and where do we go from here.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭ Sunny Disposition


    McEvoy is really excellent, and Christy O'Connor is very good too.

    But the way the coverage is, it doesn't really look at the kind of issues that are raised in this thread. Tbf Denis Walsh (who is also excellent) did write a good article a number of months ago about the ball, and the issues with the game becoming so high scoring.

    Looking at things overall , doesn't it show how weak the hurling media is, and by extension the Irish sporting media, that the rules on bas size started to be ignored, nothing was said or written about it, and the game ended up changing dramatically? Isn't that crazy?

    Another indictment is that a few times a year a county will announce a new manager, someone not from the county. The new arrival will say something about looking forward to the challenge, or being excited about the potential, or some such banality, but the media will never question if they are being paid or how much, or if there are any tax implications. If there was a hurling media with some teeth, the GAA would have either had to stop outside managers or introduce rules for their payment by now. The current situation is a farce that insults the intelligence of the public.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,621 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    GAA media is very much about match reports and the likes. It just doesn't have the likes of David Conn or Jonathan Wilson.

    No one is gonna talk about the wages because it will create such an absolute avalanche that could see major fines and criminal convictions if it broke. Fans know it's happening too and I don't see many of us boycotting the game or protesting at matches like the soccer do when not happy with the bosses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭ Sunny Disposition


    Everyone knows it's happening, but there's a pretence at official level and in the media that it is not. It's weird really. At this stage it certainly should have been regularised, either stop managers from outside clubs/counties or just allow payment and have managers as employees.


    Because GAA journalism over the last 20 years has been so much about exaggerating 'sacrifices' made by players (they're not sacrifices as much as choices) it has slipped into coverage of management. A lot of articles about how much manager X has to drive to make training, as if there was no material motivation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭ flasher0030


    The choice and sacrifice go hand in hand. Yes, the player choose to continue to play the game, but by choosing that, they are automatically making the sacrifices.

    If every current intercounty player choose not to make the sacrifice, then we would have no game. The players should be appreciated for choosing to make that sacrifice and effectively dedicating their lives to the intercounty game. You cannot dismiss it as basically "shure it was their own choice - no big deal".



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,621 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    Why are so many people assuming the managers working in their own counties are not getting paid ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭ Sunny Disposition


    That is the truth though, it's not being disrespectful to anyone playing intercounty at all. There's plusses and minuses to playing intercounty of course, if anyone felt the plusses outweighed the minuses they shouldn't do it. I played intercounty myself for 11 years, but it was entirely my choice to do so, basically it was enjoyable, it was the reason I did it. I'd have kept playing for longer if I could have.

    But anyway this is way off the point of the thread. I only raised it as an example of the weak media coverage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭ Sunny Disposition


    Here's a very good article from a man who actually thinks about the game. Well done Christy.


    I don't agree with Hegarty's view that the public want very high scoring encounters with scores from all over the pitch, I think there is quite a lot of alarm at how high scoring it has gone and even a certain disillusionment. Extending his logic, scores from the full back line would also be a positive, now that they've become commonplace from the half back lines.

    While Christy concludes by saying that the issues aren't all down to how far the ball is travelling, I do think it's a significant issue. But huge kudos for actually taking on one of the biggest issues in the game, which has been overlooked to an alarming extent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭ Davys Fits


    A shame that this news got so little media coverage. There are many people unhappy with how hurling is evolving but not enough it would seem. I just wonder at what point will others see it for what its worth, a throw not a handpass?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,897 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr


    Just force players to use the core skill of the game: the hurl. Outlaw catching a handpass, make them take it on the hurl



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,621 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    Ban the hand pass and game swill be constant rucks because players will just obstruct the hurley constantly.

    It won't achieve and drop off in cheating.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭ Davys Fits


    Great post from start to finish. And the people that wont even consider change will be the first to tell you the game is gone to sheite. They will walk away from it rather than deal with the issues that you have outlined. In Neenagh they said that the players that played over recent years wouldn't be able to adjust to the new handpass rules, which is admitting that there is a problem but we will do nothing about it because its too difficult to solve now. Time wont solve it either, just make it worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,897 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr


    Not really, if you can't catch a handpass you'll just need to use the hurl. If that means moving the ball on fast, rather than running a half dozen steps holding it like you're playing rugby it will improve the game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,621 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    The problem isn't catching it but the player making the pass.

    If the hurley is the only way to pass every defender will just start blocking the hurley from ever making contact. The game would be a messy joke. You would end up with Shinty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,897 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr


    Pay attention: don't make it illegal to handpass, make it illegal to catch a handpass, force players to favour the hurl.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,621 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    My comment which you replied to had nothing got to do with banning the catch.

    Pay attention.



  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ PeggyShippen


    Yeah its a fair plan. Ban the catch from the handpass. That would at least involve skill in using the hurley to control the handpass or double on the handpass . That's an interesting proposition. There had to be some way that a tackled player can rid himself of the ball legally from the hand.like a poster said its too easy to prevent hurley contact in a tight tackle.

    The physicality I like at the moment but I do want more lenient reffing of the shoulder . I want guys to be able to stop guys with the shoulder even if its a little bit in the chest. Guys won't give shoulders because the player on the receiving end is turning into the tackle to manufacture a free. I'm a ref and I never fall for that.

    The steps issue won't go away. For Kilkennys first goal in the All Ireland, Walter Walsh took 11 steps before putting the ball on the stick...11. It was insane and no commentator spoke up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭ Davys Fits


    Players would block and hook rather than pull and drag. How can you be so sure that would be messy. It worked before the handpass became endemic. Would you rather a game where the ball is thrown around???Sounds like it. At least Shinty has held on to its core skills. We are going to dilute all the skills of hurling with throws.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,621 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    I think the quick moving hand passing game we currently have is great to watch.

    The skills of hurling are going up. Moving the ball intelligently is far more a skill than "pull hard" and all that shte.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭ Davys Fits




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭ Sunny Disposition


    The poor state of analysis of the game is a huge problem for sure.

    I’m glad to see the handpass at least being seen as an issue. At inter county level it is taking a lot from the game, the preparation is very intense and the players use it so often as a low risk way of keeping possession. If it wasn’t an option it’d almost certainly make the game more enjoyable, but at least it’s being debated even though the motion failed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭ Sunny Disposition


    This is a great post. 👏

    It is definitely the case that hurling has declined drastically as a spectacle, especially over the last ten years. There have still been some great games, and those have kinda papered over the cracks, but the overall trend is very poor.

    I think you’re right about football too. The problems with the game have been faced and there’s been a degree of improvement. In contrast there’s often people on TV over-praising hurling and hurlers. They probably think they’re helping the game, but the dishonesty is a huge impediment to tackling very real issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ PeggyShippen


    I think hurling has changed but it hasn't 'declined drastically'. Alot of the 'hip and whip' chaos is gone and its not as exciting but the hurling skills are fantastic. 2 skills are gone.. ground and overhead pulls and thats a shame but they've been gone for 20 years. It ll take an innovative coach to bring them back again. There is room for ground hurling. It ll take a Kinnerk type figure to re invigorate it. The scrums are awful to watch..pathetic little bunches with no pulling or physical collision.

    Football I won't really comment on. I dont watch much of it. There's none in my club. Its a bastardised ball game. It's neither as skillfull as soccer or as physical as rugby. I don't think you can make it better .



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,993 ✭✭✭ billyhead


    The Gaa should make the sliotar heavier for starters and bring in a rule that limits the number of hand passes. Try and clamp down on illegal throwing. Also coaches should encourage more ground hurling. It's gone by the wayside nowadays.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,621 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    Any coach who encourages ground hurling should be immediately sacked.

    Coaches are there to win not sooth your inner Grandpa Simpson.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,993 ✭✭✭ billyhead


    If there was more ground hurling there would be less rucks which are a scourge on the game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭ WesternZulu


    Is it part of the hurling mantra to criticise football irrespective of whether it's part of the discussion or not.

    You might not think it's a skillful game but I'll tell you one thing it's a lot more difficult for a player to score in football compared to hurling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,621 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    I hope every team except Limerick agrees with you and plays dumb "pull on it" hurling



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭ FintanMcluskey


    It is definitely the case that hurling has declined drastically as a spectacle, especially over the last ten years.

    Some of the hurling in the 90's and 00's was utter dross. Just look at the Leinster championship up until 2012.

    The game has improved drastically over the past 10 year's with players nowadays fitter and stronger than ever before, that's why the points are being scored from distance as opposed to just because the ball is lighter.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,621 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    But if it's not exactly the hurling played just like in your youth it's shte. Don't you understand the point of this thread.

    No one here has ever seen a game of "proper" hurling "the way it's supposed to be played"



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