Hurling- what’s gone wrong and where do we go from here.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468444#Comment_120468444

It hasn't changed for the worse.

randd1

• Regulate the size of the bás to a standard size that's smaller than currently in use (as it should be according to the rules).
• No hand-passing from the same hand that releases the ball.
• Define the tackle so that the spare arm cannot be used to tackle or hold up a player, only a hook/block/shoulder/flick is an acceptable tackle.
• A player attempting to break a tackle by taking the ball into hand is showing intention to take more than four steps, and should be penalised for barging.
• A black card, noting a punishment for an 8 minute sin bin, is issued on a 3rd personal foul to counter deliberate pulling/dragging.
• Standardize the area to an oval 30 m from to the centre of the goal to 20m of the side of each goalpost in which a deliberate pull down is a penalty/sin bin and enforce it (to encourage goal attempts).
• All puckouts have to pass the 45 yard line.

Bring in those simple rule changes, and I reckon you'd instantly have a lot more chaos and unpredictability in the sport, and a cleaner sport to boot. The possession game is here to stay because at the end of the day it's a smarter use of the ball, but it's built around constant throwing/steps/barging which leads to more pulling/dragging/holding players up/rucks, and when not it's a game of exchanging pot-shots.

Occasionally we get to see some hurling, and some of the hurling is so skilful and of such quality it makes it easy to ignore the problems that are in hurling (and are increasingly becoming more central to it) and give the feeling that things have never been better.

Unfortunately in hurling these days you have to fundamentally be a cheat to prosper given the persistent breaking of the rules required to play the game, and it is becoming more and more predictable in it's state of play with very little in the way of organised chaos, and any sport in which that's the case is a sport in trouble.

This isn't the fault of any one county, it's a hurling problem that needs to be address by hurling people en masse, lumping the blame on any one county or manager/coach will only seeing us do what we've always done in the sport, fling excuses until it sticks to someone (usually the successful team of the day) and nothing changes.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468685#Comment_120468685

Some good proposals there. I think if you were to enforce a regulation on bas size it'd go a very long way.

Brendan Bendar

Excellent post lad.

something has to be done, hurling has become a bit of a borefest with the

winning of frees being the most profitable strategy.

Who wants a procession of free takers slotting the sliothar over the bar

from inside their own half?

Thats what’s the mainstay of a lot of games are these days unfortunately.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468685#Comment_120468685

Simple way to put an end to pulling and dragging is a rule that every tackle must be performed with both hands on the hurl

Another way to end the plague of hurling rugby it that a hand pass cannot be caught but must be taken on the hurl, or that if hand pass is caught, it counts as the receiver playing the ball to his hand twice he cannot touch the ball a third time.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468490#Comment_120468490

Multiple posters have provided reasons and also linked to articles containing reasons why they think that, despite skill levels being at a very high level, the game has changed for the worst, at least from an entertainment perspective.

So instead of ignoring these points and periodically dipping in and out of the thread to enter lazy one line retorts, maybe you could address the general points being made about the state of the game and back up your assertion that people who have concerns about how the game has evolved are mistaken?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468806#Comment_120468806

I did way back at the start.

This thread was set up clearly as a statement and not a question. Not an "is it gone wrong" but an "I has gone wrong"

The vast majority of the "clash of the ash" shte talked here is a hazy rose tinted misremembering of what the sport was actually like. You can't argue with fantasy.

"Entertainment" is purely subjective. Would you have any proof or signs that the general public think the entertainment levels are down ?

Are attendances or viewing down over the last 20/30 years ?

Is the game in any danger in terms of playing numbers ?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468806#Comment_120468806

You're arguing with a contrarian, forget about logic and reasoning

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468830#Comment_120468830

The decline in the entertainment of hurling is a very slow burner….very very slow.

The biggest pointer is the number of points scored….point scores in the high twenties are regular occurrences now.

The lack of ‘ground hurling ‘ is also an issue, how many ‘scrums’ have we seen in modern hurling with players

picking and poking to get the ball in their hands.

We have to face reality and see that hurling needs some reform.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468959#Comment_120468959

The lack of ground hurling is purely subjective. Personally I think ground hurling is a load of sht. Fellas "pullin hyard" on a ball to nowhere. Mostly just the back in my day brigade that miss it.

The scrums are nothing new. Only difference is now players try get it into hand rather than just a crowd all flaking into it.

Everything you have just said is subjective and in no way part of some crisis that needs fixing. Just your opinion on the game that no stats suggest the wider audience agrees with.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469153#Comment_120469153

Incorrect, my friend, unfortunately shows a poor understanding of the game and it’s attraction.

I think you should try to evaluate the game rather than dump on folk who can see the issues.

Your post seems to imply that there is nothing ‘wrong’ with hurling, I think if you asked a different cohort

of real hurling people you would perhaps understand the issues.

Eoinbmw

If you'll pull into a ruck these days you'll be shown the line!

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469607#Comment_120469607

If you pull before the ruck starts you will stay on the field.

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469721#Comment_120469721

Why would you pull before a ruck start. Just giving away possession

Davys Fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468830#Comment_120468830

Gaelic football has bigger attendances and bigger playing numbers that Hurling yet Id guess you wouldnt suggest its a better game. So your points re attendance and players is not an indicator of issues within the game. Its very clear that people are not happy. You are from Limerick and its also unlikely that you would see anything wrong when your on a top, all due respects this is not a biased opinion against Limerick.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470302#Comment_120470302

It's about hurling's attendance versus itself. Are viewing figures down on the so called glory days.

Which period is the one people think is the example of the glory days ?

Show me how "it is very clear" ?

Where is "it very clear" ?

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469735#Comment_120469735

It’s 15 players against 15, hombre.

Have a bit of belief in your team mates eh?

Its that kind of thinking that’s is poisoning our games, afraid to do anything but keep possession.

It could also free up one of your players and get them in on goal……

Davys Fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470339#Comment_120470339

I didnt mention glory days. The game changes and comparing the past with now is futile. I know from speaking to hurling followers around the country and 18 pages of posts here and elsewhere that people are not happy with the throw fest in particular. Even your own Tj Ryan has said hes not fond of the modern game.

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470385#Comment_120470385

I hate to see you coaching my team. Pulling before a ruck 🙄

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470440#Comment_120470440

Loose ball dude, quick pull, she flies up the field, nippy corner forward anticipates, picks up , short solo, swing the stick and Gooooooooal.

You should try it?

C4000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470339#Comment_120470339

The 2009 all Ireland final is often referenced as the high watermark for hurling. Watched the full game back recently, very exciting match. Tommy Walsh had a stormer, won every ball that came near him......and then proceeded to drive most of them as far down the field as he could, often without looking. These types of balls were at most 50/50 deliveries and several were directly to opponents.

That type of play just wouldn't cut it in the modern game. If the likes of Sean Finn wins a ball, he's expected to be able to pick out a pass that allows the ball to be worked to a position where it can be delivered to the advantage of his forwards. A far higher level of skill is demanded now.

It's not like we don't see great matches in the modern game.....there have been classic matches over the last few years that compare with any of the great games from previous eras. The last 2 munster finals for example.

Illegal handpassing is definitely an issue however. A very high percentage of handpasses are fouls and it looks poor.

Refereeing has become a huge determinant of the quality of matches. If the likes of James Owens is doing a match, you can expect a poorer spectacle with a constant flow of frees breaking up the game. Refs like Thomas Walsh enhance matches by only giving the frees that need to be given.

Hurling is still a highly entertaining sport. The percentage of good matches that you get compares well to football, soccer, rugby etc. Definitely some tweaks to the rules that could be considered but its not a sport in crisis.

evolvingtipperary101

Hurler on the Ditch Stats

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459847#Comment_120459847

Their physique as well, a fair few lads on that team have the physique of a WWE wrestler! I wonder why that is?😉

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471103#Comment_120471103

Hard work and commitment. Something that your county lacks 😉

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471034#Comment_120471034

Nobody on the Blog stats.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471191#Comment_120471191

It's so lame - Worst thing is, he was probably freeze-framing every hand-pass. Good luck spotting it all in real-time

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447251#Comment_120447251

I like the idea. And love the idea of the straight knock out back as a comp.

It could work. Certainly be better than the mish mash of shite we have the moment. Get rid of the shite league (a glorified pre comp).

I took out an old bag of balls there recently (never used - found em in the attic). Jesus christ the difference with the new balls. The way the old balls tail off with the weight of them. No wonder free taking was way harder back then.

Time to find a way to bring back those balls for inter county - regulate the hurley sizes - re the boss.

Tackle the handpass, seriously.

Get serious about the no cynical fouling around goal chances.

No pass back to goalies.

Sideline replays to help out refs on major calls.

I've been thinking about the size of the players now compared with before. Given the size of players now and their fitness compared with when the game first started (they cover the pitch with ease) - it's probably time to drop it to 12 or 13. That will help with the congested middle and the rucks.

I don't see why there shouldn't be more subs allowed either.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471266#Comment_120471266

Isn't the intention to show how the handpass is being abused rather than to claim the referee should have spotted all these throws in real time?

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470339#Comment_120470339

2010 all Ireland hurling final 1.36million viewers

2022 all Ireland hurling viewing figures 786000 viewers

Quite the difference would you say?

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471916#Comment_120471916

That's shocking.

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471916#Comment_120471916

2010 was due to the great Kilkenny side going for 5 in a row. Everyone had a interest. Having all irelands in July will never attracted the same numbers.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471985#Comment_120471985

2011 all ireland hurling final 971000, population also bigger now in 2022, breezy point about viewing figures dont stand up. That's the fact of it.

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471995#Comment_120471995

Again July ain't going to get the same viewings.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472000#Comment_120472000

So breezy post about viewing figures should be disregarded so therefore his point doesn't stand?

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472009#Comment_120472009

I couldn't give a **** about breeze post. I'm just stating my pt. 2022 had a peak viewing of 1.09 million.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472014#Comment_120472014

which is less than 10 years, swing it how you like, peak hurling viewing figures have dropped from previous highs, thats the facts of it.

newhouse87

Tipp Kilkenny 2019 in august 830000 viewers, suppose July cant compete with august for viewing figures either.

Vinnie222

Was the viewers figures for 22 higher? 🙄

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471916#Comment_120471916

Not that different to 2009 at 771000 though.

Also no streaming back then. Those figures are TV only.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472053#Comment_120472053

Then 2010.2011 or 2019 no. Dont have other years.

evolvingtipperary101

July... ah lads, will ya stop. The time of month prevents viewing figures for an all-ireland final? Mother a god...

Interesting to contrast with football. This from 2021 in The Examiner

An average of 940,400 viewers tuned in to RTÉ2's live coverage of the All-Ireland SFC final on Saturday.

That's 75% of those watching TV at the time. Viewing figures peaked at 1,064,800 at the end of the game. There were also 149,000 streams of the game on RTÉ Player.

It exceeds the average of 760,000 viewers who tuned in to watch Limerick's All-Ireland SHC final win over Cork on RTÉ. It's also more than the 876,600 viewers who saw last year's decider between Mayo and Dublin.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472055#Comment_120472055

You said in your post are viewing figures down from "glory days", the answer is a resounding yes they are down from previous highs, nothing to argue here, its a fact.

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472065#Comment_120472065

862000. Peak viewing 1.09. Have to back to the desk job. Enjoy the rest of your day

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472077#Comment_120472077

post peak viewing for 2022 please, couldn't find it. Considering average viewing figures in 2010-2011-2019 were higher then average 2022, its safe to say peak viewing was also higher then 2022. Im here all day, quiet in the lab today.

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472077#Comment_120472077

Limerick's momentous win over Kilkenny in Sunday's enthralling All Ireland Hurling final was watched by an average of 774,000 viewers and a share of 72% of those watching TV at the time. Viewing numbers on RTÉ2 peaked at 17.05 with 882,000 watching as the nail-baiting final whistle was blown. There were 113,000 live streams on the RTÉ Player, up from 92,000 last year. 

newhouse87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472055#Comment_120472055

Limerick's momentous win over Kilkenny in Sunday's enthralling All Ireland Hurling final was watched by an average of 774,000 viewers and a share of 72% of those watching TV at the time. Viewing numbers on RTÉ2 peaked at 17.05 with 882,000 watching as the nail-baiting final whistle was blown. There were 113,000 live streams on the RTÉ Player, up from 92,000 last year. 

Even with streaming smaller then previous highs, some would argue the fact streaming is now available outside of ireland, this would inflate figures more then ever.

Brendan Bendar

Well done lads for fuhherking up this thread……

washman3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120459814#Comment_120459814

And you saw some fair shite during that 60 years.

q2ice

Those viewership figures are a waste of time. They use the Nielsen system where only a small number of households are given a device to track TV viewings. That small number is then used to guess what the actual number of people should be.

July is a traditional month for holidays and this would lead to less people watching as they are not at home. Or there is a case of the people who usually watch the sports isnt at home, or decided it was a nice day and watch in pub. Viewing figures should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Gusser09

Remove the handpass and let the ball be thrown in an under handed manner. Thats whats happening already. Problem solved.