So UFOs aren't a theory anymore - but we still don't know what they are

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119017633#Comment_119017633

This audio is real-time, as it was happening in front of their eyes. An actual encounter. It is not vague when it is happening in real time.

I 

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119017633#Comment_119017633

Here's a good article that breaks down that incident:

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4135

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119012534#Comment_119012534

No, you can't call them whatever you want. Well I could, but then you'd be just as wrong as you are. They are not vehicles until they're confirmed as vehicles. End of story.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118990399#Comment_118990399

"I do not believe there are alien spacecraft"

You have reffered to them as craft on multiple occasions in this thread, including many occasions in the post above.

Why are you calling them craft if you don't believe there are alien spacecraft?

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119031107#Comment_119031107

I understand you believe that there is a rational explanation, explain it all, that is fine, that is your outlook on things here.

The anomalies encountered here clearly indicate the presence of intelligently controlled vehicles.There is something you need to overcome first and you have not done so.

However, I don't think we have enough evidence to conclusively say there are aliens from Planet A, B or C. I remain open to the possibility that they are alien spacecraft.I believe they are intelligently controlled vehicles and craft belonging to someone else, not humans.

Say it again so that it sinks in.

These vehicles do not belong to Humans, apart from those short stories told in Ufology regarding the sighting of these beings. We will not be able to determine for certain until the world public gets to see it first hand after they disembark from the craft on our televisions. 

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119032079#Comment_119032079

So if they don't belong to humans or aliens who do they belong to?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119032079#Comment_119032079

First off, I asked you a question directly which you ignored completely. Here it is again, just so everyone can see you dodge it for a second time: Why are you calling them craft if you don't believe there are alien spacecraft? This is how you operate. Someone asks you a direct question and you spit out a load of waffle that has nothing to do with the question asked, then claim you've answered it. Technically you're right, but it's a load of bollocks that anyone can see through. If someone asked me what day it was today and I said "42"......sure, I've 'answered the question' but have I really?

The anomalies encountered here clearly indicate the presence of intelligently controlled vehicles.

No, they don't. You're making that leap in your own mind without anything to back it up. We don't even know if they're vehicles, FFS. That's the point I'm making. Governments are saying "here, we've no explanation for what this is, we've never seen anything like it" and you're going "They don't know what these vehicles are!!!!" when they never said they were vehicles (or craft, or ships etc...) in the first place.

There is something you need to overcome first and you have not done so.

There is? What is it, so, don't leave me hanging?

I believe they are intelligently controlled vehicles and craft belonging to someone else, not humans.

Again, why do you keep calling them vehicles and craft? What evidence have you got to say they are vehicles and/or craft? Your leaps are so illogical it's almost frightening. You're tying yourself up in knots. Less than a week ago, you said that there is no such thing as alien spacecraft. Now, you're saying that a) these are craft and b) that they are non-human. WTF does that leave, then? You've just discounted absolutely everything that they could be in two short sentences, but haven't realised it yet because your grasp of the English language is rudimentary at best.

Say it again so that it sinks in.

Will do: You cannot keep referring to these UFOs as vehicles or as craft when you have nothing to back up that assertion.

These vehicles do not belong to Humans

If they do not belong to humans (definition: people from planet earth) and there is no such thing as alien (definition: from anywhere else OTHER than planet earth) craft, then where did they come from and to whom do they belong?

***just so we're clear.....there are 4 questions in this post which you should address if you have any shred of credibility left. I've highlighted them in bold, just so you don't dodge miss them.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035784#Comment_119035784

Lol, why do you think he's got any credibility left?

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035784#Comment_119035784

The process of communicating with debunkers is comparable to explaining new situations and concepts to children, as they are still developing and are not able to comprehend what is being shown to them. A psychological or neurological issue is most likely to be the cause, not conclusive, but requiring further exploration. There is no doubt that you have some comprehension issues in your makeup, or a complete lack of self-awareness judging by what you say from one post to the next.

Did I say that UFOs seen by pilots cannot be alien spacecraft?

I am certain you started off your post with an argument about the term UFO and what it means. Yes, I agree with you in general that it does not mean every object in the sky is alien (as I am aware of) but somehow you equated that to me stating the craft that the pilots saw cannot be alien craft?

Most of your points that were relevant to our discussion were addressed and I simply ignored the remainder of your post in which you kept whining away about nothing and which took up much space in your post.

Intelligent vehicles could be controlled by robots from another planet, without aliens aboard. There is no evidence to support these theories, but the vehicles may belong to time travelers. There is the possibility of receiving a glimpse of what is known as the afterlife. Spiritual beings might be checking in on us, perhaps they are interdimensional beings piloting the craft. There is the possibility that they are part of a form of life unknown to us that has existed on earth for a longer period than we have, yet prefers to stay out of our way. Plenty of theories, but maybe this is too much for a debunker?

The leap has been made already, you just failed to read the link and the information provided. Pentagon has released numerous papers on the subject and has identified five observable characteristics that make the craft particularly remarkable.

You were too lazy in mind to even take the time to even look at the link I provided, which describes antigravity lift, sudden and instant acceleration, hypersonic velocities without signatures, low observability, cloaking, and trans-medium travel. All of these items in the link I provided are clearly identified and explained. This is all evidence that the craft are advanced vehicles from another location, which is why the Pentagon and Congress have taken this subject seriously, as there is a large amount of data that they cannot ignore.

Intelligence-controlled vehicles- is not absolute proof that they are aliens from Planet X, but the only true data that fully supports the hypothesis is the fact that the UFOs were traveling at extreme speeds in our atmosphere and defying what we know about physics in its current state on earth . The UFO that Fravor encountered was tracked coming down from 80,000 feet in the air and hitting the ocean out there in two seconds.  

You came back again with the nonsense that did not address your points, as part of the course here 

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038591#Comment_119038591

Sorry man. Just because people don't believe your ridiculous theories and don't fall for your dishonest tactics it doesn't mean they have neurological issues.

If it were the case it would mean that even other conspiracy theorists would be similarly afflicted since none of them share your beliefs or even attempt to support you. And it would mean that you and you alone were the only healthy minded person on the planet.

I will also remind you and readers of the many, many issues you've had with basic understanding of incredibly simple things taught to children in secondary school. For example how to do basic physics equations and the difference between upper and lower case letters.

Also how to spell the word "physics". (You spend a very long time calling it "physic" for some reason.

Hoop66

He's just doing it to own the ibs.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038591#Comment_119038591

That's a whole pile of LOL seeing as your only effort at evidence here can be boiled down to "you can hear what they saw"

Some herculean levels of comprehension required for that feet!!!!

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038591#Comment_119038591

I'm sure it's been mentioned to you before, but what you are looking for is a science fiction writing forum, not conspiracy theories.

The ideas popping into your head would I'm sure make some good basis for sci-fi stories, although you'd need to be open to actually coming up with reasons why these interdimensional robots from the spirit world would want to stick probes up peoples rear ends in a cornfield in the middle of nowhere, USA for the story to be any good.

Give up with trying to claim that you've discovered some conspiracy, and take your ideas off to somewhere they will be appreciated in some creative writing groups.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038591#Comment_119038591

Like I said, everyone can see through your poorly constructed, faux-intellectual bollocksology. You may cast aspersions on my mental health all you want, but it's as plain as the nose on anyone's face that you are merely trying to mask your own shortcomings. Which is par for the course with you I'm afraid (and not "part of the course" as you so eloquently put).

Walter Mitty ain't got a patch on your wild fantasies though, I'll give you that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039490#Comment_119039490

That's a cracker

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039620#Comment_119039620

What is this conspiracy I have discovered?

Now that this is a mainstream public interest story, members of the US government are now looking for more information from their own intelligence services. Distractions and misdirections, and language against the subject will not alter the outcome here. Irrespective of what the debunker claims or denies, the events will continue to unfold. The majority of time in human history, debunkers have been on the wrong side of many things, but it seems as if we tend to forget this. The Wright brothers may never have flown if they had listened to Skeptics, this is only one of the hundreds of examples

Skepticism can be beneficial in some circumstances, but it can also hinder progress. You will find a new breed of online deniers who think they're always right.

It goes as follows: It's not possible because everything I have learned here says that non-human craft can't exist or at least travel here.

Minds are not capable of exploring possibilities when they hear stories like the Fravor case. It must be a mental blockage that prevents this or something else that can't be pinpointed with certainty. Anyhow, it is no longer a conspiracy, another failure by debunkers to comprehend what has been going on for decades. 

silliussoddius

Must be a mental blockage, or what is more probable: aliens or someone making a mistake?

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042933#Comment_119042933

WTF are you on about now? Seems like you are trying to claim that the Wright brothers were conspiracy theorists and that is why they managed to solve powered flight?

What about the guy in New Zealand, forgot his name, who managed it at the same time independently. Was he sharing conspiracy theories about Concorde and 747s with the Wright brothers?

Like I said, you'd be far better off taking up writing fiction than trying to claim some grasp on reality with your ideas.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119043303#Comment_119043303

Not saying that, but I am saying they faced a lot of opposition that this would not work and even were ridiculed by the press and public, and some scientists even disbelieved it when it occurred, took a while to be accepted as history. 

It's the same with 9/11 JFK and UFOs ( that ufo subject is no longer a conspiracy) 9/11 and JFK are the only two major conspiracies in the west that remain unsolved. JFK conspiracy was pretty much put to rest last week when nal another debunker lied and refused to show his evidence on here. After I produced mine, he walked away and did not provide any evidence.

What left to discuss really 9/11

edit: case you guys go off on tangents again, keep in mind that the UFO issue is not fully resolved, although we have come a long way since the days when debunking sites dominated the internet and nothing was happening was deemed credible. US government taking steps in a positive direction is integral to overcoming debunkers' resistance

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119043532#Comment_119043532

The conspiracy theory's around JFK and 9/11 are absolutely nothing like people doubting that human powered flight was possible, or that the smallpox vaccines work, or that the earth rotates around the sun, or that space flight is real, or that dinosaurs once roamed the earth.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119043532#Comment_119043532

Yeah good to see the debunker sites getting take over by UFOTwitter and the amazing stuff happening on reddit. The part of the US government that UFOs fall under has been sympathetic to the like of Robert Bigelow, Jacques Vallee and a bunch of other weirdos. Don't hold your breath.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119043762#Comment_119043762

Okay, let's take a look at that.

Consider the case of JFK, for example, user Nal boards resident JFK debunker claims a tumbling bullet measuring 3 cm in length struck Gov. Connelly's back and caused these injuries. Convinced that this was the case in his mind, he posted an image showing the 3 cm wound in the image.

unbeknownst to him because he only listens to and follows the official narrative on this one, the wound on Connelly's back was only 1.5 cm before surgery. Dr. Shaw Gov Connelly's doctor at Parkland enlarged the same wound to 3 cm only after the shooting. 

This is the actual history here and that wound size goes a long way to prove the real conspiracy is the official version

Nal started lying about what Dr Shaw said and would not show evidence or any quote that this good doctor claimed that the wound was 3cm before surgery.

A debunker fabricates false information and is widely accepted since no one outside of conspiracy forums will check it. 

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119043923#Comment_119043923

And what exactly is your comparison with the development of powered flight and the shooting of JFK? How are these two things even slightly similar?

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044007#Comment_119044007

I am referring specifically to skepticism and the power of doubt. I am quite tired now, so I will not post much. What is the common theme, you ask? People doubt here that it is possible, saying that other stories heard cannot be true. 

Settled

Oswald was alone 

9/11 fire brought down seven.

UFOS are no vehicles or crafts,

The notion that people would be able to fly was also doubted in the 1900s. The Wright brothers proved everyone wrong.Doubt can be healthy, but it can also put you in a state of denial and prevent you from seeing the bigger picture. Take care, off to bed.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044075#Comment_119044075

Doubting that humans would be able to develop powered flight doesn't make the people who said it was possible conspiracy theorists, just people who hadn't quite got their science fully lined up yet. It was clear that things could fly, there were birds, it was clear that lighter than air flight was possible as we'd already done it, it was understood how wings worked (kind of) as again birds existed and gliders were being developed and dodgy methods of figuring out how to stear were being figured out.

Humans went from no powered flight to taking rockets to the moon in about the same time as people have had to uncover a conspiracy around JFK, but the JFK theories still amount to no more than "something weird happened which I don't understand, therfore mad government conspiracy which nobody has any theories around the why, let alone the how".

Figuring out how to fly involves coming up with a theory, testing that theory, having another theory as to what went wrong, testing that theory.

The only similarity with that and the likes of the JFK conspiracy theory is the word theory. Two entirely different concepts though. One theory is tested and proved right or wrong, then another theory based on that is developed.

In your use of the word it is about coming up with a crazy idea that you can't define, can't prove and even the idea of questioning the theory is considered blasphemous. Science actively tries to disprove their own theories. Conspiracies expect their theories to be taken on faith and never questioned.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044075#Comment_119044075

Hahahahaahahaahaha......you're some craic, I'll give you that.

Comparing yourself and your deranged, fictitious ramblings with the pioneers of the early industrial revolution is a new level of narcissistic, vainglorious delusion. A neck like a jockey's bollocks.

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044184#Comment_119044184

Back then, scientists, academics, and the public thought that human flight was impossible. It is hard to believe that would be the case considering how far we have come over the years. After the Wright brothers' test flight, they were still accused of lying and these facts are well documented. 

 Wright brothers ignored skeptics in order to achieve greatness. I do not claim to be great or compare myself to anyone else, rather I am pointing out that skeptics are often in error.

A sitting president of the United States being murdered is a significant event. There is a problem in that many people want all the answers and motives before deciding whether to take a different path. 

 Often, people are wrongly convicted because there isn't enough evidence to set them free at the time, but at the time of the conviction, there was strong evidence that they committed the crime. In a similar way, there are evidences for conspiracy, however, most people outside of conspiracy forums are unaware of them, so how can you change mainstream opinion when most people are unaware?

There are evidence with 9/11 and JFK that has been largely overlooked, either because the suspects have not been identified or because it is not a substantial news story on CNN. Just as I revealed to you how many people on these forums are even aware that JFK debunkers have lied about Connelly's back wound for decades? Discrepancies in that wound can alter the entire narrative surrounding the magic bullet and the fact that there was only one gunman in Dallas that day, 

Therefore, anomalies found in the NIST study and incorrect descriptions of medical wounds should never be overlooked. They provide evidence that the official narrative is faulty. 

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119053515#Comment_119053515

They were only skeptical of the claims of powered flight because they hadn't seen it yet. Quite simple for the Wright Brothers to present their evidence to people by turning up and flying.

That is absolutely nothing like conspiracy theorists though who are not capable of showing evidence of their claims, if even being able to give a straight answer to what their claims even are. Nobody considered the Wright brothers equivalent of conspiracy theorists would be today.

Cheerful S

One of the greatest mysteries of our time': Congress to hold UFO hearing next week

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/10/congress-holding-ufo-hearing-00031367

Don't expect much to come out of this, but one can always hope. It is good that it will be live streamed to the public. Hopefully, we will see more of this in the future. I am curious to see who the guests are and to hear their questions and responses  

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119053566#Comment_119053566

I am a truth-teller, not a conspiracy theorist. 

It is false to state that 

In my submission, I backed up the medical evidence with Dr Shaw's testimony, included links, and even provided images of the injury, which he stated was 1.5 cm in diameter. 

According to the resident debunker of JFK, Shaw stated the back entry wound measured 3 cm in length and presented a website that he maintained proved it. 

 The funny part of the story. According to the website, Shaw described the same wound of entry as 1.5cm in 1963 and 1964, not 3cm. That confirmed what I had said (remember, he is using the website to support his point of view).

In place of being honest about it, he claims that he read it in a book, which he does not show us. This tells you who is lying. Please refer to the last two pages of the JFK thread( 1739 post and read on) and see the level of evidence I provide.

If you read Dr Shaw's testimony, he states that the 3 cm wound in Connelly's back was actually an enlargement of the 1.5 cm wound on the operating table. Debunkers ignore this fact and attempt to match the Carcano bullet length (3cm) with the 3cm wound to prove the tumbling bullet theory.