Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR)

Geuze

What works are required?

The main element of the Glounthaune to Midleton Twin Track project consists of the provision of a second track over the full extent of the line. These works will largely be contained within the existing railway corridor and will include the following:

• Addition of 2nd track over the full extent of the line;
• Addition of sidings/turn back facilities at Midleton;
• Modification/replacement of bridges and level crossings to facilitate the twin tracking
• Associated signalling upgrades and alterations;
• All associated civil works (retaining walls, boundary treatments, etc.).

All works completed as part of the project will be compatible with future electrification of the Cork Area Commuter Rail network.

https://www.irishrail.ie/ga-ie/about-us/iarnrod-eireann-projects-and-investments/cork-area-commuter-rail/glounthaune-to-midleton-twin-track-project

10km project length.

Here is a comparison in France:

https://www.railwaygazette.com/infrastructure/audacious-contract-to-revive-nancy-contrexeville-route/66625.article

89km for 150m

Our costs seem too high.

cc

The Ballynoe station I'd imagine would be adjacent adjacent to the Ferry and Bus stop right next to Rusbrooke Links/Riverside estates. Even before the other developments come on stream see no reason to delay it.

Ireland trains

Blarney and Blackpool station drawings from a recent IE presentation.
Recordings of presentations available on the PWI YouTube channel.

thomil

The Blackpool station, or at least what I think is the Blackpool station (upper left), looks like a massive missed opportunity if these are the plans they're going with. The tunnel is likely to become a pinch point once the number of trains on the Cork-Mallow segment of the line increases and I would have believed that having the ability to stop, and if need be terminate, services there would be a priority for Irish Rail, given the added flexibility this would provide. I can't imagine having one, or ideally two, full island platforms there would have added that much complexity and there's certainly enough space, even if you take the terrain into account.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251395#Comment_122251395

Are you suggesting there should be four tracks through the station? The two main tracks and two passing loops?

thomil

Yes, that would be my ideal scenario. In an ideal scenario, this would allow commuter trains to stop at the station without holding up express services, while in the case of an emergency that closes the tunnel, it would provide ample platform space to terminate services at Blackpool. Even one passing loop would already provide some capacity in that regard.

namloc1980

Agreed. The Blackpool plan looks like a complete bottleneck and a missed opportunity. No passing loop or island platforms well lead to congestion at this point with intercity vs commuter rail.

hans aus dtschl

The Blackpool overbridge between the platforms potentially looks like a missed opportunity too. With the steep slopes, you'd imagine an underpass configuration with island platforms could be possible.

Obviously both the extra platforms and underpass would be significantly more expensive, so I'll just be glad of the station first, and hope that they upgrade it in future!

Blarney looks like two platforms on the main 2 lines, and then an additional branch line with associated third platform? Also, is this location East of Station Road and North of the NM20? Might be nice if they could tie it into the top/back of the business park too. The Northbound connection to the NM20 looks bad here too, so hopefully the NM20 can tidy that up a bit.

cgcsb

It's planned to double the Dublin-Cork frequency to half hourly and eventually run directs to Limerick via LJ, I wonder how that will compete with CARTs (or whatever the branding is) every 10 mins and Cork to Tralee trains.

CatInABox

Didn't know exactly where to put this, but this is probably the closest that I could find. ABP has given approval for the Cork Dublin line level crossing closures, something that they've had for two years at this point.

https://irishcycle.com/2024/07/08/fear-of-delay-for-metrolink-and-dart-as-an-bord-pleanala-takes-26-months-to-approve-relatively-straightforward-level-crossing-removals/

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122253914#Comment_122253914

This post aged like milk.

Blarney station now all but confirmed as tying into the top/back of the business park, but no upgraded Northbound connection to NM20 unfortunately.

loco_scolo

Another 250 page report prepared with this approval. Will it be enough to prevent a JR?!!...

r310286.pdf

https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/310286

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122355410#Comment_122355410

It's been a little over 3 years. Doesn't bode well for projects like DART+, Metrolink, or anything at all with any engineering complexity

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356385#Comment_122356385

On the other hand they have increased their staff by 32% over that period and perhaps more importantly the board is back in place and actually making decisions. Still understaffed, but better, so hopefully won't take as long. On the positive we are seeing decisions on the BusConnects Infrastructure plans starting to be made at a decent tick, so it does seem that things are picking up there.

LastCall

Going off topic but how much time will these improvements save on the Dublin Cork route? 5-10 minutes?

spacetweek

Yep. The bus connects corridors are getting planning approval far faster than the level crossings despite being more complex.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356677#Comment_122356677

Probably only 2-3 mins but the safety element is the key improvement.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356385#Comment_122356385

253 pages ABP report to remove/upgrade seven level crossings.

Is a RO required for any work on an existing railway?

What is the criteria that requires a RO?

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357161#Comment_122357161

It's a fairly significant element of work though, is it not? New bridges, etc? Something of that scale is always going to require a trip to ABP, but the length of time that they took is very unusual. I'd wonder what impact the Paul Hyde scandal had on this one particular case, he was dealing with the Cork region, right?

goingnowhere

Irish Rail was unable to progress the closures through the local authorities or land owner engagement so to avail of CPO powers the RO was required. Excessive possibly but a function of dysfunctional local government unable to handle routine matters.

KrisW1001

A Railway Order is basically Planning Permission. If you're building something or knocking it down, or building a new road or a greenfield railway alignment (yet to happen in the history of the State) then you need one; for smaller-scale operational charges on the existing infrastructure, you don't.

All of these LC changes involved new road layouts and/or bridge construction, so they need planning/RO.

goingnowhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357461#Comment_122357461

Its happened at numerous times, mostly for freight sidings, but in terms of a new mainline railway

Lavistown Junction line, https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/si/404/made/en/print

With the exception of Charlemont-Sandyford, Carrickmines-Laughanstown, Broadstown-Liffey Junc all of Luas was 'new' and built under RO's

spacetweek

KrisW meant heavy rail. Luas is light.

spacetweek

Hopefully the tender for the level crossing closures will go out ASAP.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357461#Comment_122357461

The 4km line from Rossbrien to Castlemungret, known as The Castlemungret branch and also as the Cement Branch is another example of a Greenfield railway alignment built during the 1950s, well after the foundation of the State. The relevant order is https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1955/si/214/made/en/print#article8

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357161#Comment_122357161

Current examples of when a Railway Order is or isn't required are as follows:

Foynes Line reopening: As the project is contained within the existing boundaries, follows the existing path, does not involve any land take (CPOs) etc., it did not require a Railway Order.

Glounthaune to Midleton Double Tracking: As the project requires the rebuilding of certain bridges, some (minor) land take (CPOs) etc, it does require a Railway Order. IE actually sought and received Senior Counsel's opinion on the need for this in this case.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122356677#Comment_122356677

I haven't seen a published figure, but have heard a few estimates generally in or around 5 mins. The thing to remember though is that the various improvements are cumulative and the Cork-Dublin should over time benefit from a number of improvements, the cumulative impact of which will be significant:

• The Cork Line Rehabilitation Project - Ongoing
• Cork Line Level Crossings Project - Ongoing
• The additional platform 4 at Limerick Junction (completed 2019)
• Quad Tracking on the section as far as Hazelhatch (completed 2009)

The first three of these will also benefit Cork-Limerick and will have a significant impact on journey times when combined with dedicated Cork-Limerick rolling stock, Killonan-Limerick Junction track doubling and further improvements at Limerick Junction.

See also: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/0c427-minister-ryan-announces-additional-funding-for-heavy-rail/

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122360628#Comment_122360628

You'd like to think so, but if the example of Cork-Midleton double tracking (which is an altogether more compact and less contentious project) is anything to go by I wouldn't hold my breath. ABP granted approval for the RO last November and I don't believe it is anywhere near going to tender.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122365978#Comment_122365978

Don’t forget Dart Southwest, I’m sure the quad tracking from Cherry Orchard to Heuston would improve Dublin to Cork journey times also.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122365978#Comment_122365978

Just to point out that the Cork Line rehabilitation works have been suspended since last year due, I understand, to lack of funding.

Round Cable

Glounthaune to Middleton double tracking work to start on the 23rd of September, BAM Ireland have been awarded the contract.

https://www.c103.ie/news/c103-news-and-sport/works-to-twin-track-glounthaune-to-midleton-rail-line-to-start/

Brussels Sprout

How in god's name are BAM still winning government contracts?

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122553824#Comment_122553824

BAM is broad-ranging group, and it has multiple, independent divisions in Ireland. I guess you’re referring to the Children’s Hospital, on which BAM Buildings is the primary contractor. This rail contract was not awarded to that division; it was awarded to BAM Civil Engineering, a separate division, whose rail work includes the Luas Citywest extension and extensions to the Red Cow and Sandyford Luas depots. All of those projects were completed on schedule and on budget, so there’s no reason to not award the company this one.

Cookiemunster

In fairness to BAM Building, other than the Childrens Hospital (which isn't all BAMs fault), they have a long history of delivering state projects across all sectors on time and on budget.

The NCH gets all the headlines due to the cost, but the government (with the open ended contract they offered) and the HSE (constantly changing plans during the construction process) have as much responsibility for the delays

spacetweek

I see they aren’t going to bridge the level crossings.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122555099#Comment_122555099

I think only 1 will remain really in the long-run. Waterrock will be getting a bridge as part of a future dev phase, and the level crossing will be for pedestrian/cycle only then. Waterrock has houses up out of the ground too now by the way, right at the level crossing, they're flying.

OisinCooke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122553968#Comment_122553968

BAM also building the new Waterford railway station and in charge of the enormous Ceannt station redevelopment, both of which are still on track and as far as I’m aware, on budget for their early 2026 openings

Grey123

Are there any plans for lift installs at stations similar to what they did at Little Island in the last year?

It’s hard to believe we still have busy stations that are total inaccessible by people in wheelchairs or with buggies.

Glounthaune has no bike parking despite being next to a shared use path. Pedestrians also need to share a car entrance, basically give way to cars entering the car park. I see a good few people arrive by foot there.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122557221#Comment_122557221

IÉ has an ongoing programme to install lifts at stations - Cork Kent should currently be underway now, with the work finishing at the end of September. The current project only goes to 2024, and does not include Cork Commuter stations, but there may be a follow-up.

Grey123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122557253#Comment_122557253

Thanks.

I see work’s going on in Kent. I presume it already had lifts so this is just replacement? That should be a different program in my opinion.

I would expect that upgrading the network to be fully accessible would be a condition of further investment in the network. I wonder is there EU money involved.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122557282#Comment_122557282

It’s for greater accessibility - I have never used the lifts at Kent, but I believe that not all of the station platforms were accessible by lift. This is to fix that omission.

The lift programme is ongoing, but will end at the end of this year 2024. The new works at Little Island station opened in March, and as well as (finally!) a proper exit to the north side (i.e., actual Little Island) of the station, there are now two large lifts in place for a new overbridge. That’s the standard of improvement that will be implemented elsewhere.

I would imagine that when the current (2020-2024) programme ends, another will be started. It has been a very popular programme, and we’re due an election soon…

hans aus dtschl

No, there's lifts to all Kent platforms now alright. Glounthaune has no plans for lifts that I know of: they were focused on building up Little Island for commuters, that's why it got prioritised.

DylanQuestion

Does anyone know what the plan is for the Little Island footbridge over the N25? I don't know much about County Council jobs. Also, does anyone have any update on Kent Platform 6? I looked at the drawings before but I couldn't understand how you access it. Will it be outside the building, on the Horgan's Quay side, or within the building but further east of Platform 5?

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122570492#Comment_122570492

As of March, Little Island station has a direct entrance from the N25 Little Island junction, here:

Adding a dedicated footbridge over N25 at this point would be very, very expensive, for only a slight improvement in access overall. A cheaper approach to Eastgate access would be for the various businesses to chip in for a couple of shuttle buses to meet the trains as they arrive. (If it were my transport policy, I’d let the business park operators offset the cost of providing this bus service against a levy on parking spaces)

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122570492#Comment_122570492

The footbridge is part of the plan but long term. In hindsight it should have been done as an additional add on with the interchange upgrade.

It'll be on the same level as the extended platform 5. Just the opposite side. Access via the subway as is currently for platform 5, but a second ramp will be put in place.

rounders

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122570792#Comment_122570792

It is a done deal. Planning granted and montage available on the council website

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/greenlight-long-awaited-little-island-29235816

www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2023-09/planning_drawings_and_photomontages.pdf

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122571297#Comment_122571297

Good to see it will have a bi-directional cycle track for the whole length of the bridge, and not just another shared space treatment!

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122570658#Comment_122570658

Not sure if this was already mentioned, but the dedicated footbridge was put through planning and the initial design was done by Arup. It's definitely being progressed somewhere. If only because the TII and NTA couldn't be dragged kicking and screaming into sorting out a pedestrian and cycle entrance to Little Island that doesn't involve dashing across roundabouts. They want to signalise the Crompán roundabout too. And there's a Co Co plan for a bus gate into Eastgate from the West. No idea where any of these plans are currently at.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122570492#Comment_122570492

You didn't dream that bridge, it's somewhere going through the system:

https://www.corkcoco.ie/en/resident/planning-and-development/public-consultations/closed-public-consultations-other/notice-of-application-to-an-bord-pleanala-for-approval-proposed-n25-little-island-pedestrian-and

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122571297#Comment_122571297

Aha, you got there before me. No idea where it is now though. That and the bus gate into Eastgate from the West.