The Irish protocol.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963330#Comment_117963330

Given that Beattie has never been an MP and only assumed party leadership in 2021, I don't think you can lay that on his doorstep in fairness.

Given his stance against immunity from Prosecution for soldiers who served in NI during The Troubles, how he appears to strongly support LGBT rights all too often blocked by the DUP, and how comfortable he seems to be with the Irish side of his identity, I'm still holding out hope that he represents a side of Unionism that I may not always agree with, but who I can understand and respect at the core of it all.

smokie72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961704#Comment_117961704

What about the tricolour been burned on the 12th bonfires and effigies of various nationalist people been burned as well. That's the hatred I'm talking about. You wouldn't get that here. It aint 1974 anymore thank god. There's a lot of very good people up north but unfortunately there's a lot of bitterness as well which suits some politicians. Barrell half empty type which holds back any progress a lot would like to see.

I couldn't care if Northern Ireland lose or win unless they are playing the Republic. If players want to declare for the Republic or the North then that's their business. I don't think they needed much encouragement in fairness.

Yes neighbours do have challenges. Go to any GAA match involving neighbouring parishes and you see plenty of challenges!

Some aspire to a United Ireland. Some don't. But it's a political debate that is going to go on for years to come. But at the end of the day any agreement will be decided by the people. Time will tell. What would you do if a United Ireland happened or a federal Ireland happened? Would you emigrate like Arlene said she would do? The conditions that forced your father to leave Donegal aren't there anymore. People are far more tolerant these days. We live in a secular society. Ireland has changed a lot in the past 25 years even.

Funny you mention the football team. When we see one Irish soccer team then we be united.

As Protestants make up only a small minority down here you aren't going to see a huge amount raising to the top but most people don't care what religion they are. It's how good they are at their job that counts.

Choochtown

Just to give a flavour of what Beattie is up against: When he (correctly imo) refused to indulge the DUP last week in their pathetic pact to fix the next assembly election under the "2 tribes" way of thinking he was called out on Twitter as "a traitor to the crown" and a "Sinn Fein/Alliance sympathiser"

The abuse Naomi Long (Alliance) regularly gets from DUP-heads on the same forum for simply refusing to play tribal politics is disgusting.

The argument re. Brexit/ the protocol/ Covid restrictions was not had around the premise "what would be best for the people?" it was around the premise of "What makes us be or appear more British?"

A direct quote from DUP leader today ... "the protocol is the roadblock. It has polluted every part of society"

lurleen lumpkin

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58765848

'The Prime Minister was also questioned as to why he signed up to a deal which created a border down the Irish Sea.

He denied that he was naïve but said he had an "optimistic view of human nature and thought they (EU) would want to respect the Belfast Good Friday agreement".'

Where do you even begin to unpack the ridiculousness of this.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962199#Comment_117962199

Of course it is a self determination to unify also. But if I was a republican I think I would be fairly depressed that the polls continue to show a vote for a Ui is a pipe dream. I think I would probably accuse unionists of insecurity as that would help me deal with the growing reality that a Ui will never happen

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963969#Comment_117963969

I don’t think there is any more hate north than south. I could point to your Lord Mayor burning my flag on the streets of Dublin etc. Most people don’t have that much hate on their hearts.

and for you saying players didn’t need much encouragement to play for roi. This is more propaganda you have fell for. Fai go to serious lengths with every aspiring catholic player of ours to get them to switch. Yet I put out a challenge to posters who were saying the same to me, to list me even half a dozen players outside Derry (which plays in Loi) who they have managed to get to play for roi. They have not found me one yet. That should tell you all you need to know

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961901#Comment_117961901

You don't have total self determination. If the majority in Northern Ireland want a united Ireland then it needs to be agreed with the whole island.

So you have total self determination as long as the choice is to remain as part of the United Kingdom.

The only people involved in the gfa with no say in the matter is Britain.

votecounts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964488#Comment_117964488

Marc Wilson would be one

votecounts

Funny that one poster say that there is more hate in the south than the the north is BS. I've never seen people been burnt out of their homes, the police service targeting one side of the community, people marching where they are not wanted, people burning another country's flag and saying it's part of their culture and finally putting flags everywhere due to insecurity. As you mentioned Catholic players turning out for NI, I notice you don't mention your former Captain Neil Lennon, who got bullets in the post and sectarian abuse because of his religion. DC, do you condemn theses actions or will you deflect once again.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964590#Comment_117964590

Absolutely. Good point for whoever the poster was who said we had self determination to unite the island into one country 👍

smokie72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964488#Comment_117964488

Well is it the case that any player born on the island of Ireland can declare for either? Though I couldn't imagine anyone born in the south wanting to play for the north. I think players who come from a nationalist background would want to play for the Republic. Nothing to do with propaganda.

Interesting you mention Derry. Other teams in Northern Ireland wouldn't travel to play Derry City due to security concerns back in the 70's. I think it was in 1985 that they were allowed to play in the league of Ireland.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964614#Comment_117964614

there you go smokie72 votecounts is making my point for me. An hour on google and he has found a total of 1 yes 1 player outside Derry who has played for roi. That should tell you all you need to know. Thanks votecount for doing the research for us

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964676#Comment_117964676

Well votecount has scuppered that argument. Outside of Derry there is 1 yes 1 nationalist who wanted to play for roi. Do you accept the votecounts stats? If so then you need to rethink that skewed view that you got from somewhere, whether propaganda or not.

roi worked really hard on the new young Liverpool star Conor Bradley. Thankfully he told them to take a hike. 😂

votecounts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964698#Comment_117964698

no problem , now could you answer the question

smokie72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964698#Comment_117964698

I don't really care about who poached who Mr Downcow. If Conor wants to play for the North best of luck to him and I hope he has your full support. I think the obvious solution to this like the Protocol is for reunification. Problem solved and we have the best that this Island has to offer internationally against the big boys. Just like the Rugby. I can picture you and I Mr Downcow on the terraces in Windsor Park cheering on a unified Irish soccer team. Then maybe we could go on a march to Rossnowlagh and celebrate our shared heritage with a pint of the black stuff. I might introduce you to my lovely lady from the glens of Antrim;) We toast to the good health of Liz!!

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964657#Comment_117964657

I absolutely condemn them. One header with a 10p coin.

the vast majority of ni fans were fully behind Neill. It was disgraceful what a small minority of rangers fans done. It was a massive catalyst for transforming our support. So we have a lot to thank Neill for.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964717#Comment_117964717

What question?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964794#Comment_117964794

That’s all very fluffy.

did you know that when the rugby team United they promised to play games time about in Belfast and Dublin and the promised to play anthems time about.

then there was then a sectarian secret meeting of the catholic players who said they would refuse to play if team ever played in Belfast again. They got cover for their secret meeting by pretending to their Protestant team mates that they were meeting to pray for the pope.

its invelievable !

votecounts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964932#Comment_117964932

I notice you don't mention your former Captain Neil Lennon, who got bullets in the post and sectarian abuse because of his religion. DC, do you condemn theses actions or will you deflect once again.

votecounts

https://twitter.com/WebbPwebb13866/status/1444022346814197765

Maybe Unionists should look at the wider picture and what's best for NI as a whole. Business leaders seem very much in favour of the protocol, I know who i'd believe

smokie72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964948#Comment_117964948

You couldn't make that up lol. Sounded like a good idea to have the home games hosted jointly by Belfast/Dublin. It be a welcome boost financially as well.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964456#Comment_117964456

So the big question is if you're so secure.....why the f*ck can Unionism never shut the f*ck up about it?!

If Unionism really was secure, they'd make much greater effort to make NI an inclusive place....but as always, it has been, 'Never, Never, Never' as soon as anything could possibly be perceived as providing any sort of support for Irish culture.

The problem was ever thus, Downcow.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965039#Comment_117965039

the Problem with you smokie is that you seem genuine, reasonable and not too prejudiced. It’s much easier to argue with bigoted republicans 😳.

But tbh lots of what the extremes of my community get up to embarrasses me. We are a very broad church and there are things I wish didn’t happen. Burning flags on a small number of bonfires, the now tiny number of ni fans who shout no surrender during national anthem. The homophobic attitudes of the extreme edge of unionism.

these are peripheral and minority and unionism should not be judged by them. But unionism needs to take responsibility for them and deal with them

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964997#Comment_117964997

I think I dealt with that.

I completely condemn it. It was a watershed for our fans to realise they had a small number in their midst who would turn on our own because of the club they played for.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965531#Comment_117965531

Always diminishing the wrongdoings on your own side and exaggerating the wrongdoings on the other. You're an absolute caricature of the problems faced by both sides in the North

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965549#Comment_117965549

Well at least you are now acknowledging that it is on both sides fionn. Maybe we are getting somewhere 👍

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965562#Comment_117965562

.....look to the start of this page where I spoke in defense of Doug Beattie, Downcow. My problem was never with the base concept of Unionism. I'll also highlight that I'm as critical of your average armchair Republican as I am of your Jamie Bryson type of tit who constantly whinges about the problems with the GFA while having no real lived experience of NI pre ceasefire.

While you're nowhere near Bryson level bad, you certainly tend towards the ostrich act sometimes, Downcow.

votecounts

Nearly every bonfire I see on the TV, has a Tricolor and placards of nationalist politicians burning on them. A hate crime in every way but what do expect from a group of bigots.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965663#Comment_117965663

In fairness, at least part of that is due to the, 'squeaky wheel gets the oil' factor. Most bonfires go ahead with little hassle.....a few of them are attended by idiots like your fella on Nolan a good while back who said they shouldn't build houses where bonfires go...

Much like the Rosnowlagh parade vs the well discussed parade via Ardoyne that led to a bunch of unemployed scumbags parking up on Twaddell for donkeys....the scumbags tend to attract more news headlines than the norms.

smokie72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117965531#Comment_117965531

I'm sorry if you find me a problem in a positive way Mr Downcow lol. I have no time for bigoted people whatever persuasion they come from.

I think in any group situation you are always going to get the mob culture and association football always brings the worse out in them. Thankfully rugby is different.

Through work I have met a few from the North. Mostly sparks who have digs during the week and go home at weekends. They come down cause there is far more work here and more money as well. There isn't as much opportunities up north. Got talking to one chap who was from Clady. Nice chap. He is Catholic but the next village nearest to him is mostly Protestant/Unionist and he wouldn't know anyone there. And the same could be said from the unionist side to his village. It is a divided society based on religion, race, identity....whatever you want to describe it.

My partner decided a couple of years ago to rent a room cause her waines have flown the nest. One young chap a student I think came out for a viewing and asked her what religion she was? I had to laugh when she told me. No way would you be asked that in the south unless you still think it's 1921 or something. He didn't get the room btw...

I was going through Ballyclare a few years ago and decided to buy some food in a shop. Went into one and there were 3 ladies behind the counter. They said hello and the minute they heard my accent the atmosphere changed. I just got stared at. Oh my god a taig has entered our store they must have thought. I just remember that particular event. It doesn't happen a lot in fairness but it was weird.

Have you driven through the shankill recently? The place is really run down and I mean it's a kip. The nationalist areas seem to have more investment in them. I have heard unionists going to nationalists representatives to get stuff done in their local community cause their unionist reps won't.

Most Unionist politicians seem to be more interested in the constitutional politics of Northern Ireland or is that what the media portray them to be doing? Do they do much in the bread and butter issues that we never hear about? I suppose it isn't as exciting as the constitution debate I guess.

Apologies for long post but I was in that mood