Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The Irish protocol.

Options
1…150151153155156…161

Comments

  • Options
    #4562
    CrookedJack
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭CrookedJack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119105709#Comment_119105709

    Well to be fair, it is a disaster compared to what they had - free and open borders with Britain Ireland and the rest of the EU.

    Anything is worse than that, it's just this protocol is less worse than many other alternatives.



  • Options
    #4563
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,158 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106097#Comment_119106097

    To be fair, many of them voted for it. They knew what they were voting for.

    I don't think the toxic nationalist narrative about losing privilege helps. Nobody in Northern Ireland today was there when it was established the way that it was.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #4564
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106186#Comment_119106186

    They are voting for parties that are hell bent on clinging onto the last vestiges of it though for long before the WA and Protocol came along. They have effectively endorsed the Unionist Veto and they might need to own that.



  • Options
    #4565
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,158 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106531#Comment_119106531

    And I could say that Nationalists are voting for a party long affiliated with terrorists. It wouldn't be very constructive.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #4566
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106539#Comment_119106539

    A party that have signed up to the democratic process.

    You attempted to remove responsibility from those Unionists not around at partition. The facts are that a majority of Unionists are voting for two parties that want the privilege's and veto's of the sectarian state partition fostered.

    There is no getting away from that by pointing fingers.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #4567
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,158 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106566#Comment_119106566

    You're attempting to absolve Nationalists of responsibility for supporting terrorists. There's no getting away from that by pointing fingers.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #4568
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106651#Comment_119106651

    With respect, the unionists have and continue to vote for parties connected with terrorists, it is a British narrative to suggest only SF are connected with violence



  • Options
    #4569
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106651#Comment_119106651


    You decided to introduce Nationalists when the truth about a fair majority of modern Unionism was told.

    Nothing to do with SF or nationalism but Unionist hankering for the supremacy, partition was designed to give them.

    They'll deny rights to the Alliance or anyone that doesn't fit their version of what NI should be, never mind SF.

    That is the reason for your relatives 'unexplained' dislike of the Protocol. In many ways they are bereaved.



  • Options
    #4570
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    On another note,

    you would have to wonder what Johnson and co hope to gain over upsetting the US?

    Furthermore, why would the Tories want Truss as their leader, at least Johnson and Sunak seem to imply they have something between the ears



  • Options
    #4571
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,158 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106678#Comment_119106678

    You're just pushing a baseless, hateful, sectarian anti-Unionist narrative.

    Anyway, your bigotry aside I don't see a connection with the thread topic so I'm not indulging this tangent any further.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #4572
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106699#Comment_119106699

    Bigotry? 😁

    For what other reason would you support parties that have resolutely refused to recognise rights and the decision of the majority of the population other than you want your way or no way?

    You wondered out loud thus:

    Speaking from experience, I've had relatives describe the protocol as a disaster. No idea why, no thoughts on what should replace it and no grasp of why its necessary save for some mumbled nonsense about caving in to the EU.

    If you didn't want comment maybe you should have kept the thought to yourself?



  • Options
    #4573
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    SF were as good as politically non-existent while hundreds-of-thousands of Unionists routinely voted for overtly sectarian bigots and indeed returned 11 anti power-sharing MPs, out of a total of 12 for the entire region, in the early 1970's.

    Nationalists began to vote for SF in numbers after the conflict had ended while Unionists moved to the Orange Order loving, Free Presbyterian, roaring nutter Paisley Party that had tried to destroy every single attempt at political rapprochement.

    A little perspective please.



  • Options
    #4574
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,123 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106729#Comment_119106729

    Wait now. You're conflating the parties with the people here IMO. The DUP are pushing themselves to the political margins but the fact is, to those ancapaill speaks of, the DUP for now are the choice of those unionists, while also being those that need be persuaded towards their own best interest and away from the ledge - and no matter how it's spun, SF is a poisoned brand that'll never be a valid choice.



  • Options
    #4575
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,158 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106931#Comment_119106931

    Cheers.

    First past the post means you pick the lesser of two evils.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #4576
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106931#Comment_119106931

    No idea what that is about.

    Are you excusing people for voting for the DUP?



  • Options
    #4577
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,123 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107042#Comment_119107042

    Excusing? I'll say again, if you conflate the people with the party - as you just did - I guess you can excuse all sorts of dismissal of opinions in a "get out of our way" attitude towards a UI. My opinions in this thread alone are pretty clear about what I think of the DUP so I certainly don't need to clarify my beliefs on that front. Easy to **** on the monlith but unionism needs to be persuaded into the light, not chased off cos they voted "wrong".



  • Options
    #4578
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106057#Comment_119106057

    How is it unfair?

    Would your dad and aunt's personal politics belie their actual voting patterns?

    Then you have to ask yourself, why would you continue to vote for parties that you disagree with fundamentally, unless of course there's a small part of them that wistfully agrees with the inequality that they espouse?



  • Options
    #4579
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107103#Comment_119107103

    Who is 'chasing them off'?

    I just stated that those who vote for suprematists have to take ownership of what they are doing.

    Ancapadorilla spoke of bewilderment at what his relatives did, and has not dealt with the fact that people are voting for a party who desire a return to the days of the Unionist veto. Simple as that.

    You are not going to change people like that with platitudes. 'Persuasion' needs to be confronting them about what they are standing over and endorsing. That self examination led to many jumping ship to the Alliance.

    If you must bring in SF, it would be similar to supporting them if the IRA was still active, many of their voters would jump back to the SDLP.



  • Options
    #4580
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106977#Comment_119106977

    Are you saying that they have NO choice but to vote for the DUP or TUV?

    Also, the assembly elections are fought on PR-STV. Still doesn't stop people voting for bigots though.



  • Options
    #4581
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107203#Comment_119107203

    You can't move for the plámásing that belligerent Unionists seem to need. Why can't they take responsibility for their own actions ever at all?



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #4582
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,123 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107203#Comment_119107203

    Man, I can see why people find debating with you an absolute trial at best. I'm not going to unpack your zig zag absolutism and just pull out the "agree to disagree" card and leave it at that.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107282#Comment_119107282

    Of course they should take responsibility, as should any voter. But like Brexit, the key to a return to sanity will/is meeting those voters halfway and making them realise the DUP do not have their best interests at heart.

    Look at it another way: what was the narrative in our marriage referendum? Was it belligerence towards older voters, or holdout Christians? Nope, it was quite a compassionate election, where the narrative was to persuade the wavering that voting no was hurting the community and individuals within it.

    Here? The narrative has to get to the rural and hardcore communities just how beneficial the Protocol is. Antagonising voters for making the wrong choice only inspires Sunk Cost.



  • Options
    #4583
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107420#Comment_119107420

    You bailed out in other words because you couldn't say where I was 'chasing them off'.

    Tell us how you get people to stop voting the DUP if you aren't going to say why you think they are voting DUP in the first place and LONG BEFORE there was a Protocol or Brexit.

    Maybe those anxious to not offend the poor dears might need to ask themselves a few questions.



  • Options
    #4584
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,123 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107526#Comment_119107526

    Telling you can't simply respect the notion to just shake hands and agree to disagree; no you gotta continue being strident, get the last word in. It's not always a battle Francie. It's not always about fighting the Good Fight. Though I suppose black and white is comforting, easy.

    I said my peace regarding your reductionist conflation of ordinary, if belligerent unionists, I simply don't have the patience to play the games you are known to get into with other users.

    You can hate the DUP without hating its voting base.



  • Options
    #4585
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107569#Comment_119107569

    I will just remind you what you, now trying to be all impartial and cuddly, typed a few minutes ago. The poster who would dare to preach and lecture about 'antagonising'.

    SF is a poisoned brand that'll never be a valid choice.

    So the 'choice' of the majority on the island according to elections and polls is not 'valid and poisoned'?

    Zero self awareness is the issue with you and Ancap's relatives.



  • Options
    #4586
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,158 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107646#Comment_119107646

    Hang on, when some people vote DUP, it's somehow invalid but when it's the party associated with Republican terrorism it's fine.

    Christ but I thought that this sort of demented sectarian drivel was dead outside of Orange lodges and Sinn Fein meetings.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #4587
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107661#Comment_119107661

    Who said it isn't valid? Stop making things up.

    I have zero issue with where SF came from and never denied that they are like a lot of other parties on this island and born out of the same goal.

    The DUP vote is sadly valid, it comes from people who want what they are offering - a return to the Unionist veto and supremacy.



  • Options
    #4588
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,158 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107682#Comment_119107682

    What proof do you have that this what they want?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Options
    #4589
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,123 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107646#Comment_119107646

    Wow. That's not what I said, and you took my words completely out of context relating to SF. So either I expressed myself poorly, or you chose to misinterpret my words so you can beat your chest about SF.



  • Options
    #4590
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107702#Comment_119107702

    What??? You didn't type this and then a few posts later lecture us down your nose about 'antagonising'?

    SF is a poisoned brand that'll never be a valid choice.

    Post #4575



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #4591
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,042 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Because that is what the DUP offered in the election..a Veto, I.E. We get what we want or else. Along with scaremongering about a border poll and in the TUV's case Lundying any Unionist who would nominate MON.


    J



Advertisement