Raised in England - irish blood. Irish?

Christy42

These days people's lives get extraordinarily messy with regards to where they grew up and where their parents are from.

Why bother arguing if someone feels closest to their Irish heritage. There won't be an exact line on at what point you are Irish or English so why bother putting it there. Going forward it will get messier as more and more people mix the culture of their parents/grandparents with Irish. Though this is what has always happened though potentially a bit faster due to the existence of airplanes.

It isn't like Irish born and bred are entirely homogenous that there is a specific piece of knowledge or experience that makes you Irish either. It doesn't mean you love GAA and the D4 experience will be different to the middle of the country in Kerry but both are definitely Irish.

cena

I was born in the uk but lived in Ireland all my life. My dad is Irish. My birth certificate is English so I class myself as English not Irish

MayoAreMagic

I think many have an affiliation to both ireland and england or whatever two countries are involved. In fairness, if you arent in a similar position you cant really judge it.
It is no different to guys from a county playing for another county, which we see in the gaa without any real issue. Best of luck to them I say

SharpshooterTom

cena wrote: »

I was born in the uk but lived in Ireland all my life. My dad is Irish. My birth certificate is English so I class myself as English not Irish

But presumably you have an Irish accent.

How do people in England perceive you?

Strumms

My first cousin was born in London , to two parents who met in Dublin and emigrated from Dublin...8 months before she was born.

She’s English but immensely proud of and immersed in her irish background and culture ... for practical reasons she’s British/English , to do with her state pension, work pension (BBC), but has both Irish and British passport.

cena

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

But presumably you have an Irish accent.

How do people in England perceive you?

Yes I do. Thank god it isn't a deep Irish one.

They don't same to care. Sure my mother is English

dd973

cj maxx wrote: »

Ah ffs. Born and raised in England, they're English. From Irish ancestry but they are English.

I'm sure Shane MacGowan would give you a warm reply if you walked up to him and called him 'English'.

There are people with Irish parents born in England who dependent on their upbringing, connection to Ireland and personal view class themselves as wholly Irish, half-Irish, English of Irish origin all the way down to wholly English with no or little interest in Ireland.

Where someone was born isn't the be all and end all of their life story or background.

Those English born Irish people who only hold Irish passports? Who are you to define them? You haven't lived their lives or spent a minute inside their heads.

cena

dd973 wrote: »

Where someone was born isn't the be all and end all of their life story or background.

Those English born Irish people who only hold Irish passports? Who are you to define them? You haven't lived their lives or spent a minute inside their heads.

I have to agree with you on this

Gekko

dd973 wrote: »

I'm sure Shane MacGowan would give you a warm reply if you walked up to him and called him 'English'.

There are people with Irish parents born in England who dependent on their upbringing, connection to Ireland and personal view class themselves as wholly Irish, half-Irish, English of Irish origin all the way down to wholly English with no or little interest in Ireland.

Where someone was born isn't the be all and end all of their life story or background.

Those English born Irish people who only hold Irish passports? Who are you to define them? You haven't lived their lives or spent a minute inside their heads.

Probably the best comment here

I was born in England to two parents born there, but three of my grandparents were Irish and born in Ireland

When I was 9, my parents and myself and two siblings, and shortly after two of the grandparents moved here to Ireland

When I started at primarily school, I had to learn Irish. The teacher looked at me like I was her special project or something

The first primary school I went to didn’t require uniforms. At home I sometimes wore camouflage trousers my Dad had got me in England from an army surplus store.

Wearing them to school, and having an English accent would not be a good idea, my parents told me. Of course I didn’t understand why at that age!

I got badly bullied throughout my school years, mostly but not always because of my accent.

Secondary school was the worst. I did pick up a bit of an Irish lilt to my accent but it wasn’t enough to stop it.

Teachers weren’t much help

I think of myself as both British and Irish, and I’m entitled to each passport.

I recall meeting one guy in London who was born there to Irish parents and he had a distinctly Irish accent

Despite being perhaps 6 foot 4 and well built, he told me about being bullied there because of his accent.

“Sure we didn’t know what we were. We just wanted to fit in and not be bullied,” he told me.

I have Cork friends living in London whose kids go to school there and have English accents.

They’d be fairly patriotic and what have you, so it’s amusing to say to them in gest, “ah so you’re bringing up a little English child!”

And as one other poster has said, the Peppa Pig effect is amusing to read or hear about.

It’s a global phenomenon too, so not just kids living in Ireland coming out with these accents like Peppa’s.

Whoever wrote Peppa and does the voice on TV must find it highly amusing

The grandparents lived through the Troubles in England and obviously during such times they didn’t broadcast the fact they were Irish, though the neighbours etc obviously knew, but I don’t recall them having any issues with them at least

Two of my uncles, despite having Irish parents, voted for Brexit and support Boris

One aunt, married to another uncle who was born in Germany to my Irish grandparents, likes to make critical comments about Ireland every chance she gets, and also voted for Brexit and supports Boris

It takes all sorts as the saying goes

Brussels Sprout

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

Are they any good at football?

SharpshooterTom

whatnow! wrote: »

Are they any good at football?

Usually if they are they play for England.

DColeman

whatnow! wrote: »

Are they any good at football?

Should be playing for your country of birth or the country you grew up in.

partyguinness

I have lived in England for the past 10 years and some people over here seem surprised that I still have a strong Irish accent. Well of course I bloody well do.

My grand uncle lived here from 1951 to 1996 and he never lost his Irish accent.

Hamsterchops

partyguinness wrote: »

I have lived in England for the past 10 years and some people over here seem surprised that I still have a strong Irish accent. Well of course I bloody well do.

My grand uncle lived here from 1951 to 1996 and he never lost his Irish accent.

I worked with a Chap from Limerick who had gone to live in England 30 years before, yet he still had a strong Limerick accent, them on the other hand I knew a Carlow girl who sounded like a Cockney after only ten years living in London. Something to do with a musical ear maybe?

partyguinness

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I worked with a Chap from Limerick who had gone to live in England 30 years before, yet he still had a strong Limerick accent, them on the other hand I knew a Carlow girl who sounded like a Cockney after only ten years living in London. Something to do with a musical ear maybe?

I was at a 50th birthday party a few years back over here. The guy is English but his wife's side of the family are all second generation Irish. Anyway, I was chattng to a lad at the bar from Mayo at the start of the evening just making small talk:

I said: "So when did you fly over?
He said: "1974"

Oh right. I assumed he had only popped over for the birthday a few days earlier. Thickest Irish accent ever.

Tilden Katz

This is relevant to something that happened to me after the England - Ukraine game. I made some Facebook comment about being disappointed about them beating Ukraine. It was a very mild jibe. In reality, I don't really care that much.

I quickly received a private message from a friend who is Irish but who has lived in the UK for maybe a decade to 12 years or so. Her husband is English. Her only link to the UK ancestry-wise was that her father was born there to Irish parents who moved back to Ireland not long after his birth. In the message, she chided me for the status update I'd made, saying "England fans always support Ireland. Why would you not support England?". My immediate thought - "Of course they feckin' support us, we are absolutely no threat to them". If we were a footballing force, it would be very different. Like as if England fans don't have countries they love to beat? Part of the fun of these tournaments is the daft rivalries.

But that wasn't what annoyed me the most. What annoyed me is she is not even from the country I wasn't supporting. I can support and not support whoever I like. I'm under no obligation to support England. I just thought she was overstepping her boundaries ridiculously and for a country she has no ancestral links to. You can't tell somebody who to support. I still can't believe how humourless she was about a bit of a gentle ribbing. Very odd.

fryup

partyguinness wrote: »

I have lived in England for the past 10 years and some people over here seem surprised that I still have a strong Irish accent. Well of course I bloody well do.

My grand uncle lived here from 1951 to 1996 and he never lost his Irish accent.

and then you have english people living over here who never lose their english accent

Hamsterchops

The football thing is a strange one alright.

Tilden Katz wrote: »

This is relevant to something that happened to me after the England - Ukraine game. I made some Facebook comment about being disappointed about them beating Ukraine. It was a very mild jibe. In reality, I don't really care that much.

Shouldn't have made the comment then.

Tilden Katz wrote: »

But that wasn't what annoyed me the most. What annoyed me is she is not even from the country I wasn't supporting. I can support and not support whoever I like. I'm under no obligation to support England. I just thought she was overstepping her boundaries ridiculously and for a country she has no ancestral links to. You can't tell somebody who to support. I still can't believe how humourless she was about a bit of a gentle ribbing. Very odd.

Mild Jibe, is that all?

Most Irish people make more than a mild jibe when England are playing, and usually its to support anybody except England, this even though they always support us

Can you imagine pub pull of English people cheering on France, Ukraine, Italy, Germany, Russia, Portugal or anybody against Ireland, definately NOT, not in a million years would they let us down, as they will naturally support the home teams from these islands, and like why would the English not support us?

SharpshooterTom

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Can you imagine pub pull of English people cheering on France, Ukraine, Italy, Germany, Russia, Portugal or anybody against Ireland, definately NOT, not in a million years would they let us down, as they will naturally support the home teams from these islands, and like why would the English not support us?

A squaddie pub certainly might.

And what do you mean "not in a million years would they let us down", I think most English are completely indifferent to Ireland and couldn't give a **** about them. Some of the hardcore racists among English travelling support would hate them, but among most normal fans it would be "Meh".

I was watching the 2011 Estonia vs Ireland playoff in a bar in Tallinn, a large number of English blokes were in it and not one of them could give a flying fvck about Ireland, they were just making stupid noises and making fun of the quality of both teams.

Ireland won 0-4 in the end, but a lot of the English people there could care less, might as well as been Mongolia vs Turkmenistan for all they know.

Gekko

Another amusing thing you find among the Irish who have lived in England for a long time is sometimes they use “we” but in a context that they mean England or English people…if the context has something to do with politics it might mean the government

partyguinness

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The football thing is a strange one alright.



Shouldn't have made the comment then.



Mild Jibe, is that all?

Most Irish people make more than a mild jibe when England are playing, and usually its to support anybody except England, this even though they always support us

Can you imagine pub pull of English people cheering on France, Ukraine, Italy, Germany, Russia, Portugal or anybody against Ireland, definately NOT, not in a million years would they let us down, as they will naturally support the home teams from these islands, and like why would the English not support us?

You are trying very hard to take some sort of high moral ground.

Hamsterchops

partyguinness wrote: »

You are trying very hard to take some sort of high moral ground.

Moral high ground?

I lived in England for many years and was struck by the warmth & natural support given to us during football & Rugby matches, then after coming home I've always been struck by the hostile and non supportive attitude towards them. (You must have noticed)?

Take any Irish pub pre Covid and just watch us cheering on anybody except England, just watch us revel in them getting beaten, it's a fact, an observation, that's all.

endabob1

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Moral high ground?

I lived in England for many years and was struck by the warmth & natural support given to us during football & Rugby matches, then after coming home I've always been struck by the hostile and non supportive attitude towards them. (You must have noticed)?

Take any Irish pub pre Covid and just watch us cheering on anybody except England, just watch us revel in them getting beaten, it's a fact, an observation, that's all.

I would have agreed 100% but I think this has changed in recent years.
Having lived here for 20+ years and have noticed a definite change since the Brexit vote in 2016, England particularly has become much more hostile.
I always used to defend the UK as a place that gave Irish people opportunities when our own country offered F-All, but in all honesty I wouldn't move here now if I was living in Ireland

FlubberJones

fryup wrote: »

and then you have english people living over here who never lose their english accent

Twenty plus years here, still sound British, not Irish. Constantly asked what part of England I'm from, I'm from the Welsh part I reply.

Tilden Katz

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Mild Jibe, is that all?

Well, do you know what I said? That’s a preternatural skill you have there, to pass judgement on what I said, knowing the square root of fuck all about what it was. What’s your secret?

fryup

If it was good humoured banter i wouldn't mind....but it's those who foam at the mouth at England losing that i get taken aback with, the venom and the vitriol can be disgusting like being at a Wolfe Tones concert, i mean jeez give it a rest it's not like Cromwell is still hanging around is it?

Gekko

fryup wrote: »

If it was good humoured banter i wouldn't mind....but it's those who foam at the mouth at England losing that i get taken aback with, the venom and the vitriol can be disgusting like being at a Wolfe Tones concert, i mean jeez give it a rest it's not like Cromwell is still hanging around is it?

I don’t know, given some of the things she does, it feels like Cromwell got reincarnated as Priti Patel !

dd973

Who the F chooses their birthplace and where their mother was living at the time of going into labour?

A lot of Irish born people can exhibit a sickly and irritating self love about where they randomly happened to be born and raised, I think it stems from the smallness of the country and it's national media and a myth that somehow being Irish born makes you the authentic receptacle of all things earthy, witty, mercurial and lyrical. You see this among groups of young Irish people outside the country especially 20 something girls giving it this dizzy little Leprechaun act.

It's like the comment about 'raising an English child', it seems that when Irish people emigrate to somewhere an hour away, they're deemed to be 'not Irish anymore'. I'd consider someone like Kevin Kilbane way more Irish than the celebrated 4th and 5th generation diaspora of Boston or New York, even though I do regard the Irish-American culture and identity as something genuine.

SharpshooterTom

Poll results for this have been screwed up in the new version.

Think it was something like

50%

40%

10%

Oh well lol. I guess that's going to be the case for all historical polls done on boards.

72sheep

Yes, of course you can be Irish. If you want to be Irish in Ireland then just remember you'll need to earn your stripes as guest for quite a while first. But that should be easy as there are huge cultural overlaps between the islands.

Agree with I Love Your Vibes: any Irish-accented person who claims never to have experienced racism in the UK is a fool, a liar or both. This is a small percentage but just wait till you have one of the UK's other minority groups telling you what "the Irish" are like, that's a real eye-opener!