Raised in England - irish blood. Irish?

Brussels Sprout

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

banie01

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

Can they play football or are they adept at any other international sport?
Are they of an artistic bent?

Then of course they are Irish

On a serious note though.
Immigrant communities do tend to hold on to their heritage that little bit tighter.
Be it marrying within their diaspora, holding traditions from "home" that may well have died out back there and being very strident and active in their identifying as Irish.

Legally, they are Irish.
Culturally, they are Irish.
By their own identification, access to passports and our own tradition of embracing diaspora?
They are, so let's embrace them.

As an example, my oldest friends are Leicester born and raised to Irish parents.
They are Irish, they were raised in Irish community and moved back to Ireland to be bullied by me over their weird accents.

mariaalice

That is a very complex question.

Accent has a lot to do with it, I have heard people say in a meeting for example...you know that English fella they can't think of his name but they know if they say that English fella everyone will know who they mean., now everyone knows who the English fella is even though he has lived in Ireland for 20 years had Irish parents and is married to an Irish person. The accent marks them out.

Obviously they are Irish.
This country voted that people born here are not automatically Irish. If you have an Irish parent, then you are irish.
if they were born in England before a certain year, they are automatically English also.

biko

If they are born in England to two Irish parents, have Irish citizenship and consider themselves Irish then they are quite Irish but still born overseas.

If a child in France is born to Irish parents but only take on French traditions, speak only French at school and home, then I consider them French with Irish heritage.

flanna01

A lot of the Irish were forced to leave Ireland back in the 50's & 60's to find work, most left with heavy hearts knowing they were losing contact with their loved ones (*Note - Cell phones and Zoom calls unheard of)

A lot of the Irish were subjected to racial abuse, both in America, England and further a field..

They overcame this suppression as only the fighting Irish could, they had children and lived their lives by the traditional values of the Irish culture. Their children were raised in the same manner.

The children of these immigrants born in England are as Irish as their parents. Is a kitten born in the dog house a puppy?

Our cousins born in the north of Ireland that swear allegiance to the Crown, are they really Irishmen with a desire to be British?? Certainly not! They have been reared for many generations as British subjects, with the British cultures and traditions instilled within them by their Parents and Grandparents etc..

A Chinese speaking family landing in Dublin awaiting a for a connecting flight to Beijing get caught short, the Mother gives birth to her third child in the Irish capital - Is the child an Irishman? Of course not.. He will grow up in China and adopt their ways... His Irish heritage will be no more than a funny story to tell at parties and the like

I would suggest that all first generation children born outside of their Parents native homes should be automatically considered the same nationality as their respective Parents.

A child doesn't know what land mass it's born on. A child could be born in the caves of Afghanistan with his Mother singing him to sleep to the tune of Oh Danny Boy, the child would know no difference. Whatever values and traditions the Parents instil in their children is what they are, be that Irish, Chinese, or Afghan.

Your Surname is what Clan you belong to.... And that's all that really matters.

fryup

they may look irish and have irish surnames but at the end of day ..they're english

example A

KungPao

Once they support Man Utd or Liverpool, watch Eastenders and Sky News, and buy The Sun, they are as Irish as anyone.

KungPao

fryup wrote: »

they may look irish and have irish surnames but at the end of day ..they're english

example A

Noel and Liam Gallagher have 100% Irish blood. Though seem as English as Yorkshire pudding and gravy.

I see sheep

Yes

Mrs OBumble

Are you asking about their nationality, citizenship, ethnicity or race?

Some people have the misfortune of having a Wexford accent.

I wouldn't hold the accent against them.

Brussels Sprout

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

I would consider them Irish but I wouldn't consider their children Irish, even with the exact same criteria.

eviltwin

I don't consider them Irish. My in laws have raised their kids in the UK, they are English, they don't have any connection to this country bar the fact their parents are from here. My parents are also foreign born but I was born and raised here and consider myself Irish, my parents country of origin has no significance for me.

Canis Lupus

Raised bit is the key part for me. Legally they can consider themselves Irish but culturally they're English and I would consider them English.

I was born in the UK myself. Irish mother English dad but they left when I was very very young for Ireland. I have only fleeting memories of it. I was reared in Ireland. I consider myself Irish as I simply can't be anything else but legally I'm English as that's on the birth cert.

Macy0161

I'd say "It depends".

I am one of those cases, albeit my mother was 2nd generation Irish. I've never considered myself anything other than Irish. I wanted to live here from as long as I could remember, and did the first opportunity that occurred. I always correct people that I have an English accent, I'm not English (and do the same when I hear people describe others based upon accent).

I went to a Catholic Primary School/ Christian Brother secondary, so there was lots of us with similar backgrounds - it was very much a mixed bag as how people felt. The Gallaghers were mentioned above, and that shows how individual it is - Liam, well is Liam; Noel is very much aware of his heritage but is English; Paul spends a lot of time in Ireland/ Mayo.

corner of hells

flanna01 wrote: »

A lot of the Irish were forced to leave Ireland back in the 50's & 60's to find work, most left with heavy hearts knowing they were losing contact with their loved ones (*Note - Cell phones and Zoom calls unheard of)

A lot of the Irish were subjected to racial abuse, both in America, England and further a field..

They overcame this suppression as only the fighting Irish could, they had children and lived their lives by the traditional values of the Irish culture. Their children were raised in the same manner.

The children of these immigrants born in England are as Irish as their parents. Is a kitten born in the dog house a puppy?

Our cousins born in the north of Ireland that swear allegiance to the Crown, are they really Irishmen with a desire to be British?? Certainly not! They have been reared for many generations as British subjects, with the British cultures and traditions instilled within them by their Parents and Grandparents etc..

A Chinese speaking family landing in Dublin awaiting a for a connecting flight to Beijing get caught short, the Mother gives birth to her third child in the Irish capital - Is the child an Irishman? Of course not.. He will grow up in China and adopt their ways... His Irish heritage will be no more than a funny story to tell at parties and the like

I would suggest that all first generation children born outside of their Parents native homes should be automatically considered the same nationality as their respective Parents.

A child doesn't know what land mass it's born on. A child could be born in the caves of Afghanistan with his Mother singing him to sleep to the tune of Oh Danny Boy, the child would know no difference. Whatever values and traditions the Parents instil in their children is what they are, be that Irish, Chinese, or Afghan.

Your Surname is what Clan you belong to.... And that's all that really matters.

That a song isn't it ?
It have verses and lots of bollix talk, definitely coukd see some teary eyed drunk singing it at a funeral.

Hyperbollix

No. The environment you grow up in has much more of an impact on you than the land you're parents originally came from.

Paul Mcgrath may have been born in England to an African father but he is 100% Irish. So many aspects of his character are just intrinsically Irish.

Noel Gallagher on the other hand may what some think is a stronger connection to Ireland but he is 100% English and northern English on top of it.

PCeeeee

No

partyguinness

No.

Born and raised but I'll accept raised in Ireland is the only qualifying criteria IMO.

partyguinness

I live in England and married to an English women- are my kids Irish? No.

Halenvaneddie

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

Yes, plastic Paddy

Cilldara_2000

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

Growing up with that identity is the key but for me. I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone in this scenario that they are not Irish. Certainly they're more Irish than the vast swathes of Irish-Americans who call themselves Irish despite their connection to Ireland being far more distant that this scenario.

Also not sure why there's gatekeeping going on in this thread.

McGinniesta

plastic paddy whackery

Hamsterchops

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Raised in England - irish blood. Irish?

This old chestnut.
.... again

It all boils down to how the individual sees themselves and how they regard their own identity.

Captain Havoc

Yes they are. I'll give you three examples. I have three sets of cousins that grew up in London, Bradford and Coventry. London cousins, may aswell be English, Bradford ones are more of Irish persuasion, my cousin shouts for Ireland in sport. My Coventry cousins are a completely different kettle of fish, it's Irish centres, Irish dancing, hurling, gaelic football, Irish soccer team, catholic schools with other Irish kids, they are in an Irish bubble. They visit Ireland around hurling matches. I still communicate with one of their sons who played hurling, his grandparents left Kilkenny and his parents were born in Coventry, so I'd go as far to say that he's Irish too. The Irish centres did attract other minorities and some of the kids from non-English backgrounds played gaelic football in the summer.

Sadler Peak

Friend of mine was born in London to Irish parents, he just says he's London Irish. That's it.
Supports both England and Ireland in sports and sits on the fence when they play each other.

Another friend born and raised in London considers herself very much Irish. Will not support England in anything. She parents are from Newry so that may or maybe not be the reason for not supporting England.

flanna01

A person born in Belfast - Are they British or Irish?

Hamsterchops

flanna01 wrote: »

A person born in Belfast - Are they British or Irish?

British or Irish, or a combination of both, or maybe neither?

But they would not be English, unless both parents were English, then they (might) qualify to be English even if they were born in Northern Ireland.

El Tarangu

Tbh I don't think that Irish parents living abroad should try to hammer into their kids that they are 'Irish'; I've met people who were brought up abroad to Irish parents, and they kind of have an identity crisis.

As in, sometimes they try to play up on the Irish thing when they meet me (I live outside Ireland, for clarity), and I'm left nodding along, puzzled and slightly embarrassed, while they go on about how "we Irish love X", or "sure, we are always doing Y" about some cliché that foreign people think about Irish people, whereas in fact anyone that was brought up in Ireland would know that this is not really the reality.