Raised in England - irish blood. Irish?

Bobblehats

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Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Morrisey? Jonny marr? Johnny rotten? Mani? English

Mozzer's Irish; his auld lad is from around the corner. Grew up next to Robbie Keane's family the two are related. Record makers and breakers alike gary Mounfield often referred to me as his cousin which just isn't true, though the eyes do have it to a degree. He found his true family eventually

Ash.J.Williams

Bobblehats wrote: »

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Mozzer's Irish; his auld lad is from around the corner. Grew up next to Robbie Keane's family the two are related. Record makers and breakers alike gary Mounfield often referred to me as his cousin which just isn't true, though the eyes do have it to a degree. He found his true family eventually

Mozzer is English like john Lydon

Bobblehats

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Mozzer is English like john Lydon

Johnny rotten is a paddy

Ash.J.Williams

He’s English

Bobblehats

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

He’s English

Bit of both I suppose. Hard to tell the difference when that closely related

Get Real

Going by your parameters for a person born to Irish couple in England: I'd consider a person born here to say, Polish parents, Nigerian parents etc and raised here, with an Irish accent as Irish

So, I suppose the person raised in England would be English, with Irish blood.

But ultimately its down to the person as what they identify as I think. And would love to think they embrace both cultures.

FunLover18

buried wrote: »

What are you on about? Of course it can be measured and weighed, its certainly measured and weighed going through passport control at the near 20,000 international airports all throughout the globe. You or I are hardly going to go over to China as an Irish person and start trying to claim we are Chinese now are we, you'll be given short shrift at that type of sort of new fandangle logic you've been fed from wherever you've been eating.

Nationality is a very broad term, of course we have things like passports and citizenship and milestones you have to reach before applying for such things but there's no barometer in terms of one's own feelings. Neither one of us is going to suddenly claim to be Chinese out of nowhere but in terms of the example in the OP where one has a good reason to consider themselves Irish due to parentage or residency, there's no way to measure how Irish they feel against how Irish anybody else feels.

buried

FunLover18 wrote: »

Nationality is a very broad term, of course we have things like passports and citizenship and milestones you have to reach before applying for such things but there's no barometer in terms of one's own feelings. Neither one of us is going to suddenly claim to be Chinese out of nowhere but in terms of the example in the OP where one has a good reason to consider themselves Irish due to parentage or residency, there's no way to measure how Irish they feel against how Irish anybody else feels.

Okay, lets say I start to "feel" like I'm Chinese, according to my "feelings" am I automatically then a 'Chinese' person?

Hamsterchops

Bobblehats wrote: »

Johnny rotten is a paddy

A very English paddy.

firemansam4

I was born in England, Irish mum and English dad. We all moved over as a family when I was 16, and I have been living in Ireland now for over 25 years. I still have a quite a strong english accent, something I have not been able to shake off.
I think ive always considered myself more Irish, and would only support Irish teams ect.

But whenever I meet anyone who doesn't know me that well they would always asume im English and would say things like Do you go home to England often?
I actually dont even try to explain things now, I just say I havent been back to England for a while, or if someone asks me how England got on in the football, i just say I never seen the game instead of explaining I actually support Ireland.

The strange thing now is that my children have a bit of my english accent as well, even though they have only been on holiday in England for about 2 weeks. I actually hope they lose that part of their accent.

Bobblehats

buried wrote: »

Okay, lets say I start to "feel" like I'm Chinese, according to my "feelings" am I automatically then a 'Chinese' person?

Say what you see. I can do a mean Chinese accent myself but nobody in their right mind is taking me for one at face value, ya know?!

Hamsterchops wrote: »

A very English paddy.

I'm not even getting into it with Johnny Marr I mean it's hardly in dispute is it. More irish than the "irish" themselves!

Hamsterchops

firemansam4 wrote: »

I was born in England, Irish mum and English dad. We all moved over as a family when I was 16 ......

Wow, so you're at the very least half English, or just English, with an Irish mother.

bnt

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

You've basically described comedian Jimmy Carr, who calls himself a Plastic Paddy but not Irish. He seems to be able to do every accent from the UK, but no Republic accents:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ05riJ3SgA

SharpshooterTom

bnt wrote: »

You've basically described comedian Jimmy Carr, who calls himself a Plastic Paddy but not Irish. He seems to be able to do every accent from the UK, but no Republic accents:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ05riJ3SgA

He should at least be able to do a Limerick accent since that's where his whole family is from.

Hamsterchops

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

He should at least be able to do a Limerick accent since that's where his whole family is from.

But isn't that like saying, that a polish chap (born and raised here in Ireland) should be able to do a Warsaw-Polish accent, because that's where his whole family is from.

buried

From discussing John Lydon to Jimmy Carr. That's a serious artistical drop.

FunLover18

buried wrote: »

Okay, lets say I start to "feel" like I'm Chinese, according to my "feelings" am I automatically then a 'Chinese' person?

What are you expecting me to say. There has to be a basis for such feelings. We're also talking about nationality, not race, nationality is a much broader spectrum. If a white couple move to China and have a child over there and raise that child there, that child may consider themselves Chinese in terms of their national pride, it's unlikely to happen to but it could. Or vice versa a Chinese couple may move here and have children here, their children may consider themselves Irish. In the OP's example the person was born and raised in England to Irish parents and considers themselves Irish, others would disagree, hence my point that nationality is subjective.

Hamsterchops

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Wow, so you're at the very least half English, or just English, with an Irish mother.

No person is half anything.
He is English and he is also Irish, he can call himself whichever he wants.

SharpshooterTom

Hamsterchops wrote: »

But isn't that like saying, that a polish chap (born and raised here in Ireland) should be able to do a Warsaw-Polish accent, because that's where his whole family is from.

Well it does help as you interact with them on a daily basis.

I'm born and raised in England but my mother is from Belfast and I think I would have a better chance of doing an authentic Belfast accent than say a Kerry or Cork city accent.

Ash.J.Williams

The musicians I mentioned and I’d add Irishman Shane McGowan had to adopt to being English to avoid discrimination, Shane had a lovely Union Jack leather jacket he can be seen wearing at sex pistols gigs

Ash.J.Williams

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

He should at least be able to do a Limerick accent since that's where his whole family is from.

He has some great material about it, he was nearly lynched on the late late show

“Any one here from Limerick ? “

“Wahayyyy”


“I thought that with all the caravans parked outside “

“ grrrrrrrrr”

Tombo2001

biko wrote: »

If they are born in England to two Irish parents, have Irish citizenship and consider themselves Irish then they are quite Irish but still born overseas.

If a child in France is born to Irish parents but only take on French traditions, speak only French at school and home, then I consider them French with Irish heritage.

This is a bit ridiculous, because the only reason you are considering the people going to England as being Irish is because they speak English.

But that is the language of England, they are speaking the language of the country they live in, just the same as the French example......

chrissb8

The first few years of my childhood were in England. Had Irish parents though who moved to London in the '80s. Eventually, they moved back to Ireland with us when I just turned 9. Always considered myself Irish on some level even in England as every summer there were 2 weeks where I went to Ireland to see and stay with my extended family.

firemansam4

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Wow, so you're at the very least half English, or just English, with an Irish mother.

I think its more the fact ive spent all my adult life in Ireland, I would be more used to Irish culture now than what I remember from England. Also I would know most my relatives in Dublin but lost contact with any I have in England.

But if you met me you could easily think I was just on holiday here from England because I never lost the accent much at all.

But yes only one parent was from Ireland but does that make me less Irish to someone who has lived in England all their lives to 2 Irish parents?

AdrianBalboa

flanna01 wrote: »

A lot of the Irish were forced to leave Ireland back in the 50's & 60's to find work, most left with heavy hearts knowing they were losing contact with their loved ones (*Note - Cell phones and Zoom calls unheard of)

A lot of the Irish were subjected to racial abuse, both in America, England and further a field..

They overcame this suppression as only the fighting Irish could, they had children and lived their lives by the traditional values of the Irish culture. Their children were raised in the same manner.

The children of these immigrants born in England are as Irish as their parents. Is a kitten born in the dog house a puppy?

Our cousins born in the north of Ireland that swear allegiance to the Crown, are they really Irishmen with a desire to be British?? Certainly not! They have been reared for many generations as British subjects, with the British cultures and traditions instilled within them by their Parents and Grandparents etc..

A Chinese speaking family landing in Dublin awaiting a for a connecting flight to Beijing get caught short, the Mother gives birth to her third child in the Irish capital - Is the child an Irishman? Of course not.. He will grow up in China and adopt their ways... His Irish heritage will be no more than a funny story to tell at parties and the like

I would suggest that all first generation children born outside of their Parents native homes should be automatically considered the same nationality as their respective Parents.

A child doesn't know what land mass it's born on. A child could be born in the caves of Afghanistan with his Mother singing him to sleep to the tune of Oh Danny Boy, the child would know no difference. Whatever values and traditions the Parents instil in their children is what they are, be that Irish, Chinese, or Afghan.

Your Surname is what Clan you belong to.... And that's all that really matters.

I have never read such rubbish in my life.

SharpshooterTom

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

He has some great material about it, he was nearly lynched on the late late show

“Any one here from Limerick ? “

“Wahayyyy”


“I thought that with all the caravans parked outside “

“ grrrrrrrrr”

According to wiki he's a regular visitor to both Limerick and Clare.

Received 4 A grades at A level and got a first at Cambridge. Always nice to read Irish immigrant families excelling given the stereotypes and discrimination that were often against them at the time.

Ash.J.Williams

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

According to wiki he's a regular visitor to both Limerick and Clare.

Received 4 A grades at A level and got a first at Cambridge. Always nice to read Irish immigrant families excelling given the stereotypes and discrimination that were often against them at the time.

That’s another gem of his that pissed off the late late show audience

“My parents are from Limerick , I have an Irish passport and every time I meet an Irish person I always tell them “look what you can achieve when you apply yourself “

ILoveYourVibes

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

The musicians I mentioned and I’d add Irishman Shane McGowan had to adopt to being English to avoid discrimination, Shane had a lovely Union Jack leather jacket he can be seen wearing at sex pistols gigs

He went to an english private school. He was born in kent!

ILoveYourVibes

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

That’s another gem of his that pissed off the late late show audience

“My parents are from Limerick , I have an Irish passport and every time I meet an Irish person I always tell them “look what you can achieve when you apply yourself “

That is so jimmy carr humour. I love his irony.

Mehapoy

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Imagine a person was born and raised in England to Irish parents. From an early age they were told that they were Irish and grew up with that identity. They speak with an English accent.

Would you consider them Irish?

Can't you be a bit of both? You can be Irish, European, from Cork, Munster etc why do people need to chose when it's nationality? Bit like n Ireland, it's all framed as you're British or Irish, choose a side and never give an inch.