Murder at the Cottage | Sky

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306314#Comment_118306314

You obviously know very little about the reality of this country

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306419#Comment_118306419

They didn't have to go there with the intention of murder, for it to end up with Sophie dead. Best laid plans and all that.

This was an area with some of the largest landings of drugs going on, it has been described as a drug smuggler's paradise.

I'm not saying it was gangland related, but I'm not ruling it out either.

Her lack of presence in the area does speak against it.

If I recall correctly, the housekeeper Josephine Hellen mentioned Sophie was concerned about drug dealing in the area, others have mentioned she raised this with Gardai but I haven't seen that original source.

I think we need to consider the possibility that there is something 'far fetched' or unexpected about this murder, that while murders have likely \ typical explanations, there are some murders that do not. This could be one of them.

flopisit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304634#Comment_118304634

Regarding the "infamous 90% quote from Alfie:

At the 2004 Libel trial, Alfie Lyons said he was "at least 90 per cent certain" that he had introduced Ms Toscan du Plantier to Mr Bailey one day, in the summer of 1995. He had asked Mr Bailey to help tidy up the garden and Sophie came to his house when Bailey was working in his garden. “Well I thought about this quite often [whether Mr Bailey had met Ms Toscan du Plantier], and when I think about it, I see Sophie Toscan du Plantier coming up to the house as she invariably did when she arrived, just to say ‘Hello’. As best as my memory serves me, she came up to the house and Mr Bailey was working close by in the garden and, as I would at any time if somebody arrived into the house or up to the property, I would always introduce them to the person who was there with me. As far as I can recollect I did introduce him to Sophie Toscan du Plantier.”

In the Murder at the Cottage documentary Alfie said, "He was here, doing the gardening. I had mentioned to him, I said, "Sophie is down in the house now." And then she came up and I introduced her to Bailey. I said, This, is Ian Bailey and he's been doing some gardening work for me, you know. So he came over and shook hands with her and that was it. When it became important, after Sophie was murdered, when I was asked about it, I was, you know, I could remember it, and yet memory is such an elusive thing that you can't always be sure what you're remembering is what happened. I could only say that I remembered it. I was 90 percent sure that that was what happened."

I think we can discuss Alfie as a potential suspect, but it would be good to figure out what is fact and what is rumor.

Alfie did have an injury to his hand, I am pretty sure and that is something to look at. He said he got it from a dog bite. He didn't own a dog, but he was minding a dog for someone, is what I read. Can someone else provide any source for this?

I recall reading also that police searched Alfie's house that morning, but I don't have a source for that.

A while ago, I was trying to research the assertion that Alfie has a party the night of the murder and I can't find anything credible about that. I'm pretty sure the source of that is a comment on boards_ie from someone claiming a woman was at a party months after the murder and told someone that Bailey had turned up at Alfie's house (where Alfie was having a party) looking bedraggled on the night of the murder...

mamboozle

this thread is running out of steam, Ian Bailey's been well and truly analysed. Wouldn't it be a fantastic data collection exercise if the same could be done for everyone? If the record or data of every single person in this state was as accessible as the life story of Bailey's is? It might become available anyway but there are more than likely family names with far too many entries which could cause problems.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306557#Comment_118306557

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304634#Comment_118304634

It's not a give-in that she was screaming in terror in the moments before her death or that her (male) killer was roaring with rage as he dealt the fatal blows or, indeed, that anybody living nearby would have heard anything had the opposite been the case. I think it's also safe to assume Sophie did not run foul of a gang of international drug smugglers or even some local dealer.

I read in yesterday's Indo that Drew Harris has requested a formal review of the case and is sending a team of detectives to West Cork next week. This development comes as a result of new statements and information received from members of the public and in light of the content of the two recently aired documentaries about the case.

jimwallace197

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118307890#Comment_118307890

When you're dealing with the gards, garda relations & individuals being paid by the gards/state to keep up the narrative on social media & this thread also that Bailey somehow managed to do it & get away with it, eventually, you lose interest.(This is their main aim, derail the thread, point the finger at Bailey, anything but one of their own, etc) They just keep repeating the same mantra that bailey did it because they understand the consequences of one of their own absolute scumbags who did this & got away with it.

Only an absolute idiot or a corrupt biased individual would believe the gards didnt have any involvement in this. That's where the real evidence is & the most logical reason why this case hasn't been solved.

flopisit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118307976#Comment_118307976

Great, so if you could just lay out your reasons logically for believing a gard murdered Sophie, then we can all be convinced.

tibruit

I

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118307594#Comment_118307594

If you are "pretty sure" Alfie had a hand injury, then you should be able to provide the source. As far as I can see, this is just more urban legend. The same can be said about the "bedraggled Bailey". There was no party that night. The story was that Alfie`s partner Shirley was supposed to have revealed at a party several years later that Bailey knocked on her door on the night of the murder. I think someone claiming to be a local told this tale on another platform and someone linked it here.

There is one contributor here that claims to have access to the Garda file. She appears to be very fond of Bailey. So if Alfie had a hand injury, no doubt we would have heard all about it. As far as I can see, all of these stories belong with the deathbed confession in the dustbin.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308048#Comment_118308048

The idea that Bailey could have carried out this murder was absurd and laughable from the start. If he'd lived alone, the barely credible story of leaving no evidence anywhere would have been suspect but the fact he lived with a woman and children who saw nothing meant the guards should have dropped it just as quickly as the DPP did, seeing it for bulls*it it was. But for some STRANGE reason they persisted. That is the nearest you're going to get to understanding there was some perpetrator that could not be revealed.

EdHoven

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5yYWRpb2Ntcy5uZXQvY29udGVudC8wMDEvcG9kY2FzdEZlZWRzLzI3MS54bWw/episode/aHR0cHM6Ly9jZG4ucmFkaW9jbXMubmV0L3JhZGlvLWNtcy91cGxvYWRzLzIwMjEvMTIvMTAxMjA0MDEvMTAxMi1Tb2hwaWUubXAz?ep=14

Okay. The person contacted Foster desperate to know precisely when the watch was taken from Sophie's wrist. Was it still there in "late morning".

So who saw it was on her wrist in early morning?

Unless we are to believe IB was there at 2 a.m. (murder) 10 a.m. (steals watch) and 2 p.m. (reporter mode) and also presumably the person asking Foster does not have the watch him or herself - that only leaves one person who could have taken the watch between the body being discovered and the guards arriving.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308105#Comment_118308105

Garda Gerard Prendeville interviewed Alfie Lyons on the day of the discovery of the crime. His report details the fact that Alfie's hand was bandaged and that Alfie's explanation of the injury was that a dog had bitten him.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308307#Comment_118308307

Christmas 2023

Nick Foster tells Claire Byrne he has receivedsome information from a source he can't reveal about an earring taken from the scene and is quite sure it is the second of a pair, the first of which he received information about last December.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308307#Comment_118308307

And does Foster claim to know that

a) Sophie was wearing a watch

b) the time it was removed

c) that anyone else ie first on the scene noted a watch

d) that the pathologist noted she had been wearing a watch at the time of her death

These are outlandish claims. A and B, there is absolutely no evidence for. Only the killer could possibly know this. In fact, it's clear that Sophie removed all items of jewellery, including her watch before bed.

C and D: No watch was noted by the first garda, Doctor or priest at the scene. The pathologist made no mention of a sign that she had been wearing one at the time of death or sign that one had been removed.

I call absolute bollocks on the whole thing. For foster to state these claims as FACT, on national radio no less, is a crime in itself in my opinion.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308307#Comment_118308307

" that only leaves one person who could have taken the watch between the body being discovered and the guards arriving."

Surely not Shirley?

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308383#Comment_118308383

He said he received some information from some unnamed person and that he wrote a letter to that person, the identity of whom Pat Kenny didn't appear particularly concerned to know. Isn't that the real information, that there is some person with potentially crucial information who has waited this long to come out with it? Shouldn't the producers of Pat Kenny's show have said that unless you're going to tell us who this person is we're not interested in talking to you because you might be making up stories to plug your sh*te book but you could go to the Guards and if anything does come of it we'll be delighted to talk to you?

WHY is he being given this platform people of dear old Ireland?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308471#Comment_118308471

The only conclusion I can reach to that question, is that he pushes the Bailey narrative so vehemently that they allow it.

Because that is the ultimate goal of the gardai still, we presume.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308342#Comment_118308342

Presumably when Detective Colombo Dwyer said to his team that they were looking for someone with scratches on his or her hands, Prendeville would have divulged this information. It's possible he was told by Colombo "scratches you half-wit, that's a bite. Alfie got bitten. She didn't bite anyone"

EdHoven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308412#Comment_118308412

My assumption is the opposite. Only the killer, Alfie and Shirley saw the body prior to the guards turning up. The killer would hardly write to Foster. Alfie is dead. Not leaving many options.

EdHoven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308412#Comment_118308412

And stop calling me Shirley!

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308412#Comment_118308412

If you listen carefully to Foster on Pat Kenny he did say when he received this information that would crack the case he thought Surely you can't be serious. Freudian slip or carefully dropping a hint?

EdHoven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308489#Comment_118308489

I wonder if swabs were taken from inside Sophie's mouth? Probably been lost by now anyway.

omega666

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308048#Comment_118308048

You will be waiting a while for the Bailey fan club to be able to give you any logical reasons. Simply because they don't have any. They only believe in folk tales and conspiracy cover up theories. Anything to try divert attention away from thier idol.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308498#Comment_118308498

Alfie always alleged he didn't see the body, just from a distance.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308558#Comment_118308558

It couldn't be Shirley as she wasn't sure what she discovered bloodied by the gate was even a man or a woman and was in such a state that she ran up the field in front of Sophie's house and although terrified only stopped to look in Sophie's window. I haven't seen or heard her speak about that day, possibly because she believes she has nothing really of interest to say. It's more interesting to hear people like Barry Roche or Michael Sheridan give us their opinions.

EdHoven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308601#Comment_118308601

Okay so who wrote a letter to Nick Foster then? Someone who saw Sophie wearing a watch on Sunday in the pub? That makes no sense. The assumption is she was in bed when she was talking to Daniel on the phone. Unless this person was in bed with her before she decided to go outside and then he or she skedaddled,

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308648#Comment_118308648

Who wrote to Nick Foster? they only gave their initials NF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308656#Comment_118308656

Where did you read that?

Is NF not his initials?

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he wrote to himself, the loon.

flanna01

Maybe the initials NF refer to 'Nancy Farrell'

Jumping Jesus, she's back!

mamboozle

I wonder why Pat Kenny didn't joke about some of Nick Foster's past; EU Diplomat, 'journalist' in Venezuela and Panama. Pat could have said "so Nick what's next? something like 'Our man in Caracas" hehe, when were you first approached by MI6?"

EdHoven

Not much of a hint but The Sun article says the silver watch tip-off came from the Schull area and SAF lives in Schull, for what it's worth.