Murder at the Cottage | Sky

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304519#Comment_118304519

Everything that points towards the obvious time of the attack being at first light early morning (7.30-8am) is fiercely contested because it doesn't fit with the Bailey fantasy. Some simply gloss over observations from the Guards in the very early stages in the investigation where they believed she walked down to the gate and the blood on her face was still wet.

The idea that Bailey could have covered his tracks to leave zero evidence anywhere is virtually impossible but the slightest doubt is dispelled by the fact that he lived with a woman and her children and we are expected to believe they either saw nothing strange or are involved in some massive conspiracy. Any Guard could have worked that out, which leads to the question of why they persisted with this. Two reasons; Fear of a very nosey annoying journalist and the big boys needed someone fast(and that's the Story).

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304519#Comment_118304519

Some serious straw clutching going on here. The doctor arrived at 10.30. If Sophie had died as late as say 8 am, then her body would have been still noticeably warm enough for the doctor to conclude that she must have died within the previous couple of hours. It couldn`t possibly have been late as 9 am.

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304019#Comment_118304019

Interesting response to my post.... The counter arguments are quite valid, can neither agree nor disagree with them.

However, I don't agree with the claim that Alfie & Shirley were in bed some time around 9pm to 10pm and never heard a thing.

This was Christmas week, the day before Christmas eve actually.. This is probably the best time to have a party, give you time to sober up and enjoy Christmas Day.

Alfie & Shirley were no shrinking violets, apart from having their hand in the drugs trade, they were known to enjoy the odd drink and smoke some weed... The idea of them hitting the pillows that early, that night, and hearing absolutely nothing thereafter doesn't work for me...

It was a still night, they live side by side in the middle of nowhere... Sophie assumingly screaming her head off, running for her life, and neither of them heard a thing...?? I don't buy it.

And... Couple that with the fact that she was running away from her neighbours house, the only living people who could possibly have helped her that night, it begs the question why...?

Was she prevented from running towards Alfie's house because the threat was coming from that direction? Somebody leaving a party? Maybe Alfie himself..? Did Alfie not have a bandaged hand the morning of the body being discovered?

I believe he told the Guards that a dog bitten him.. Even though Alfie didn't own any dogs??

Of all the strange and weird things associated with this case, the statements from Alfie & Shirley don't add up for me.. And the lack of Garda scrutiny surrounding them is suspicious to say the least..

The infamous quote from Alfie: I'm 90% sure I introduced her to Ian Bailey when he was working in my garden .????

What does 90% mean? Was she in his garden or not? They were at logger heads about the entrance gate, and hadn't Sophie started to erect posts and fencing around her property, why would she casually stroll over to Alfie's for a chat..??

Alfie is 90% sure Bailey met her, Bailey states he has never met her.... Both of these two know who's lying.

If Bailey is lying, no witness has ever come forward stating Sophie mentioned him in conversation - Nobody.

If Alfie Lyons is lying, why is he lying? Is the 90% statement an insurance policy in case it comes back at him? Is that his out if he needs it?

And why would he try to implicate Bailey in the first place...? Too add to the already growing coerced circumstantial evidence being created by the corrupt investigation..? And what reward would Alfie receive in view of such a comment (a light sentence maybe?)

No matter what way I look at it, it keeps coming back the same... Alfie Lyons & Shirley Foster knew more than they were letting on..

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304632#Comment_118304632

Blatant lie as usual to suit the story. All accounts say the Guards arrived at 10.38am and the Doctor at approximately 11.00 and this from desperate Mike Sheridan who knows the implications but doesn't want to chance being definitive because there is probably some precise record. "Some serious straw clutching going on here."

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304665#Comment_118304665

I take it back and readjust by half an hour. Deepest apologies for the error. Now maybe you could go and ask your pal Bailey which member of the Thomas family the watch belonged to and come back here and tell us when you find out.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304704#Comment_118304704

Bailey isn't my pal although I did see him from my car outside a cafe in Ballydehob. Maybe you're 90% sure we were introduced. The sarcastic apology says it all; you were chancing it on but who cares since you hate Bailey and the Thomas crowd anyway and wish them all bad luck. Lovely!

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304719#Comment_118304719

I suspect it was someone else`s car you were driving. You seem to misinterpret sarcasm a lot. I try not to make errors. Had a late one last night. I don`t personally know the Thomas`s, but I genuinely sympathize with all of them for all the crap they have had to deal with.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304764#Comment_118304764

Are you really genuine though? Really? I'm sure Jules Thomas would guffaw at your genuine sympathy. You inhabit that strange world of people who when they encounter logic and reason in this case assume the person enunciating it either is a friend of or actually is Ian Bailey. How dumb can you be? It's almost like some of the revelations about this society over the last 30 years never happened.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304820#Comment_118304820

To elaborate on this... the intention may have been to give a warning, and things went beyond that for whatever reason.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304820#Comment_118304820

The only problem I have with that is that the kind of senior guards who came into the case would have got to the bottom of it inside a week. There is this notion out there that it was somehow half-wit plodders on this case. It wasn't, it was all the same people who busted John Gilligan's gang after Veronica Guerin's murder.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304817#Comment_118304817

Internet land is weird really isn`t it? Although it is always easy to flush out the narcissist who is chained to the bottle. They always have to be where people are talking about them, can`t control those impulses, easily angered. I actually quite like Jules. I am also convinced that she has always genuinely believed Bailey to be innocent. But that doesn`t mean he didn`t do it you see. At the end of the day, she really can`t be certain what he was up to that night he hopped out of bed. So even though you want to put Bailey and the Thomas`s together in one sentence, fighting against the outside world as it were, I suspect that bond is weakening by the day now.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304873#Comment_118304873

You quite like Jules? but you believe she is a desperate fool the poor woman? Such condescending bullshit. She is ABSOLUTELY certain what he was up to when he got out of bed and she is on camera saying it. There is a desperate fool here alright.

of course part of your story has her out telling people about the murder even though the priest or doctor had yet been informed while she is still 'uncertain'? Are you for real? Contradictions in everything you say yet you persist indefatigable with your Bailey the bast*rd, he did it he did it

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304902#Comment_118304902

She can`t be certain....she was asleep.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304920#Comment_118304920

and when she woke up she was a moron?

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304996#Comment_118304996

Far too trusting. Love can do strange things to people.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305032#Comment_118305032

I've noticed over time that what seems like your limited experience and understanding appears to be in keeping with an older holier Ireland

So Foster is clearly hinting that the person asking him about the watch is either Jules or one of her daughters.

I really hope, if this all turns out to be bullshit, the Gaurds slap him down for interfering with a live murder case.

Newstalk referring to him as a 'leading journalist'?? The media need to wake up and call him out for what he really is.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305110#Comment_118305110

The crunch moment came in this case during Bailey's high court case against the Guards where, when anyone watching would have thought Bailey's won this hands down, the state pulled a rabbit out of the hat and effectively said case over. That was a recognition that while he's innocent and the Guards tried to frame him, the state cannot contemplate the appalling vista. After all he's just a dopehead english layabout and a wife beater to boot so he can f*ck off, he's not getting a penny and we are not investigating guards. Ever since then, anybody like Foster prepared to keep it up with destroying Bailey is pushing an open door with the guards. I wouldn't be surprised if Foster has been told as much by some guard(s). Bailey is number 1 suspect and everyone's happy.

This is the deadest live murder case going and Foster has nothing to worry about. His book is already on prominent display in Eason's, along with all the other Christmas market books destined to be unread. The publicity drive has started with the new 'leads'. It'll all be forgotten about in a few weeks time.

DontHitTheDitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304878#Comment_118304878

Violent murders in Ireland are almost exclusively from criminal/drug organisations? Seriously? Domestic violence escalates into murder far too often here, in the last couple of years there have been quite a few extremely violent family murders. This kind of murder is the opposite of a gangland/criminal murder, there was no attempt to conceal the body or delay detection of the crime. It was a spur of the moment action of violent rage, it was personal. If a hitman or gang member left the scene that way they would be eliminated themselves fairly soon after. It brought the most high profile investigation of the year to the wider area.

DontHitTheDitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305304#Comment_118305304

Do you really believe that? People are strange. Bailey’s star witness was there to admit perjury and was shown to be lying in evidence when her own words were played back to her. He lost the case from the start. She was his case. Bailey has lost every case he has taken against the state or the papers. His only success has been to avoid French prison.

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305933#Comment_118305933

You'd sound reasonable if it wasn't for your denial of the truth. Don't start, it's been exhausted here and it's beyond doubt. You're simply repeating state/gardai lies

flopisit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304463#Comment_118304463

Nothing about the Bandon tapes to follow up your assertion that the Guards were Convinced of Bailey's guilt?

I would like to, but that could take some time as I can't remember if it was in the podcast, the documentaries or the books... The gist of it was one gard on tape saying Bailey would be back on the drugs, back on the drink and with the full moon and he'll do it again.

Evergreen_7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305995#Comment_118305995

It’s here. Long read but very interesting.

https://assets.gov.ie/1987/221018150627-28665ac2ce7f4bcbaa610616d084f429.pdf

mamboozle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305995#Comment_118305995

What? If a jury had heard that they wouldn't have hesitated in sending him down.

But hang on, the guards wouldn't be messing would they? No they couldn't be, I mean they're Guards

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118305909#Comment_118305909

Theres been lots of gangland hits where the hitmans focus was on getting out of dodge asap with zero attempt to conceal the body or delay detection. We can easily imagine a situation where a crime figure threatens someone or attempts to abduct someone, things get violently out of hand and then they are disturbed and flee.

You seem to imagine because someone is involved in criminality they are experts and make no mistakes and their plans execute just as they intend.

In non gangland settings... There are lots of cases in America of spur of the moment brutal attacks with no connection to the victim. The culprits are only detected with a lot of hard leg work, their increased police presence and random stops and lucky forensics breaks.

In gangland crimes the victims face if an informer may be brutalised both as a warning to others and also so its a closed casket funeral, an insult to the family.

flopisit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306051#Comment_118306051

Thanks for that. It's a treasure trove of information, but my god, tis hard going to go through it. :D

There is a quote... I don't think it was the specific one I am thinking of.... but another relevant one:

On 18 June 1997, at 9:23pm, Detective Sergeant Alpha spoke with an unidentified female civilian, possibly a family member of a colleague. When asked if he was any closer to a conclusion in the murder investigation, Detective Sergeant Alpha said: “it’s a very tricky one, a complicated one to try and put it together and bring it together.” Later he said: “Yeah, it's real cryptic and then we're up against it, he didn't leave us too much to go on.” He responded to a suggestion that if he, Ian Bailey, is not caught he would kill again by stating “Ah it's frightening. Well, I don't want to give him that opportunity if I can help it, but the people he's living with, certainly shielding him I think, so.”

"Alpha" is the garda tasked with putting together a report for the DPP and it is very clear from his private conversations that he believes Bailey is the murderer.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306273#Comment_118306273

Possibly a family member of a colleague??? That's not a private conversation intended for non disclosure... That's the story the Guard wantrs the community to have.

DontHitTheDitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304902#Comment_118304902

It sounds like you been completely taken in by him. I wish you all the best.

DontHitTheDitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118306241#Comment_118306241

Yes, executions, when a target is shot in a planned hit. The killers get away as fast as they can and use the quickest method to carry it out. That's the opposite of this case where the killer used weapons of opportunity and appears to have arrived unarmed, got into a face to face confrontation and murdered someone with whatever was to hand. There is nothing about this case that indicates gangland or criminal elements.

flopisit

The theory is that Sophie's murder was a gangland hit? Carried out with a rock from her garden? IMO, it's even more far-fetched than Bailey's "Le-Husband-Did-It-Corsican-Hitman" theory. But more convincing than the "Horse-Did-It" or "Marie-Farrell-Did-It" theories.

Bear in mind, this hit was put out on a woman who was only in the country from 20th to 23rd Dec 1996. And the only other time she was in Ireland in 1996 was one occasion in the Spring.

Can I also just point out that if you are a drug dealer and some random woman complains about you to the police, if your response is to murder that woman, you are bringing down a huge amount of police attention on yourself, not to mention committing a crime that is going to bring the attention of the entire country on you. In addition, who in Schull is buying enough drugs to fund a criminal organization that is big enough to be so worried about informants harming their income that it is willing to murder someone?

I've seen this idea that Sophie was a drugs informer pushed on this forum before, but never seen anything at all to back it up.

Anyone care to share where this comes from?